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Who were the Nephilim & Giants in the OT?

A

agua.

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I haven't seen anything in the Bible about that. Have you?
It does say that they had great cities with high walls when Joshua went in to conquer.

No I haven't seen anything conclusive in the Bible. There's some interesting legends about the walled cities.

Evidently they had the technology to construct a firm bed:

Deuteronomy 3:11 For only Og, king of Bashan, was left from the remnant of the Rephaim. Indeed, his bedstead—it was a bedstead of iron. It is in Rabbah of the Ammonites. Nine cubits is its length, and four cubits is its width according to the cubit of a man.

As for weaponry, they evidently were not that skilled at making a helmet.

1 Samuel 17:49 Then David put his hand into the bag and took a stone from it and slung it. He struck the Philistine on his forehead, and the stone sank into his forehead, and he fell on his face to the ground.

1 Samuel 17:5 A bronze helmet was on his head, and he was clothed with scale body armor; the weight of the body armor was five thousand bronze shekels.

Touche Chessman :biggrin
 

Rollo Tamasi

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The same word is used, but I would point out that the Genesis 6 nephil were not listed as being with Noah on the ark. The Numbers nephil may have been different somehow.
Good point.
It could mean that calling the nephilim physical giants that survived the flood as wrong.
Another interpretation is in order.
 

Rollo Tamasi

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Only angels could have survived the flood.

Very simple.



JLB
So you have to prove they were angels and angels became physical giants and, having sex with human women, were able to reproduce.
Please prove all that with Scripture.
I say it's not there.
The giants referred to here were people of great power and could do anything.
Such people were there after the flood as well.
It makes sense that people with great power would continue to do as they please.

The creature from the Black Lagoon:

"A scientific expedition searching for fossils along the Amazon River discovers a prehistoric Gill-Man in the legendary Black Lagoon. The explorers capture the mysterious creature, but it breaks free. The Gill-Man returns to kidnap the lovely Kay, fiancée of one in the expedition, with whom it has fallen in love."

Hmmm, are the Nephilim still with us?
 

for_his_glory

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Nephilim has been traditionally taught to be angels who came down and procreated with women by marrying and having children with them. This is not Biblical.

Angels have no gender (Matthew 22:30) and are innumerable (Hebrews 12:22). They are incarnate in human form at times (Genesis 18:2-8) for the purpose of God's ministry.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The way I read this verse is that there were giants in the earth in those days before the flood and also after the flood when the sons of God (Godly line of Seth named in Genesis 5) all had sons and daughters, but not all of these sons and daughters obeyed God and fell away from Him. Let's not forget the un-Godly line of Cain that some of these sons and daughters might have married into Cain's line and came in unto the daughters of men and they bare children to them. Some had the hereditary autosomal dominant pituitary gene such as AIP that produces Nephilim/giants as they became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. This gene had to start with Adam to present day as we see anyone being over seven feet being called a giant as they tower over others.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance - Nephilim
Part of Speech: noun masculine
Transliteration: Nephilim
Phonetic Spelling : nef-eel
Definition: "giants", name of two people, one before the flood and one after the flood

By this definition these angels would have to have come down two different times to marry the daughters of men. Once before the flood and again after the flood, but we only find this one time in Genesis 6:1, 2.

There is no such thing as a half angel, half human hybrid called Giants. Nephilim is just a name given to giants that we read about in scripture and even those that are living today being over 6 feet and taller.

Rephaim - race of giants Genesis 14:5-7; Deuteronomy 3:11-13; 2 Samuel 21:16-20, Og the king of Bashan was the last of the Rephaim
Anakim - race of giants Numbers 13:33; Deuteronomy 2:10; 9:2 Anak son of Arba Joshua 15:13 descendent of Canaan, son of Ham
Emim - the proud deserters, terrors, race of giants Genesis 14:5-7; Genesis, 19:37; Deuteronomy 2:10, 11 descendants of Canaan, son of Ham
Zuzim/Zamzummims the evil ones, roaming things Genesis 14:5-7, 19:38 Deuteronomy 2:20 descendants of Canaan, son of Ham

It's just like the name Lucifer/Satan/prince of darkness/Beelzebub/father of lies and many more names given to this fallen angel. Satan is nothing more than a fallen angel that goes to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it as he still has access to the throne room of God as he stands accusing the brethren as Jesus sits and makes intercession for us. Satan is the opposite of God's goodness as his evil hierarchy includes the third of the angels that have followed after him as he sends them throughout the earth for his destructive purpose in man, 1 Peter 5:8.
 

Rollo Tamasi

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Nephilim has been traditionally taught to be angels who came down and procreated with women by marrying and having children with them. This is not Biblical.

Angels have no gender (Matthew 22:30) and are innumerable (Hebrews 12:22). They are incarnate in human form at times (Genesis 18:2-8) for the purpose of God's ministry.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The way I read this verse is that there were giants in the earth in those days before the flood and also after the flood when the sons of God (Godly line of Seth named in Genesis 5) all had sons and daughters, but not all of these sons and daughters obeyed God and fell away from Him. Let's not forget the un-Godly line of Cain that some of these sons and daughters might have married into Cain's line and came in unto the daughters of men and they bare children to them. Some had the hereditary autosomal dominant pituitary gene such as AIP that produces Nephilim/giants as they became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. This gene had to start with Adam to present day as we see anyone being over seven feet being called a giant as they tower over others.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance - Nephilim
Part of Speech: noun masculine
Transliteration: Nephilim
Phonetic Spelling : nef-eel
Definition: "giants", name of two people, one before the flood and one after the flood

By this definition these angels would have to have come down two different times to marry the daughters of men. Once before the flood and again after the flood, but we only find this one time in Genesis 6:1, 2.

There is no such thing as a half angel, half human hybrid called Giants. Nephilim is just a name given to giants that we read about in scripture and even those that are living today being over 6 feet and taller.

Rephaim - race of giants Genesis 14:5-7; Deuteronomy 3:11-13; 2 Samuel 21:16-20, Og the king of Bashan was the last of the Rephaim
Anakim - race of giants Numbers 13:33; Deuteronomy 2:10; 9:2 Anak son of Arba Joshua 15:13 descendent of Canaan, son of Ham
Emim - the proud deserters, terrors, race of giants Genesis 14:5-7; Genesis, 19:37; Deuteronomy 2:10, 11 descendants of Canaan, son of Ham
Zuzim/Zamzummims the evil ones, roaming things Genesis 14:5-7, 19:38 Deuteronomy 2:20 descendants of Canaan, son of Ham

It's just like the name Lucifer/Satan/prince of darkness/Beelzebub/father of lies and many more names given to this fallen angel. Satan is nothing more than a fallen angel that goes to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it as he still has access to the throne room of God as he stands accusing the brethren as Jesus sits and makes intercession for us. Satan is the opposite of God's goodness as his evil hierarchy includes the third of the angels that have followed after him as he sends them throughout the earth for his destructive purpose in man, 1 Peter 5:8.
We agree and disagree.
At the beginning and the end of your post.
The Talmud shows us that the Rabbis have been debating the meaning of the Nephilim since the beginning.
I was never traditionally taught that the fallen angels were the Nephilim, and I was Baptist.
The fallen angels have always been held in the abyss until the end as per the letter of Jude.
The Nephilim have to be interpretted differently.
And therefore demons are not fallen angels.
That has to be rethought by people as well.
 

Edward

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Good point.
It could mean that calling the nephilim physical giants that survived the flood as wrong.
Another interpretation is in order.

I'm into something else right now, but Chuck Missler does a very good job at explaining the Nephilim and all with scriptures too, so this is a good place to start is his video and he has loads more on his site...

 

Rollo Tamasi

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I'm into something else right now, but Chuck Missler does a very good job at explaining the Nephilim and all with scriptures too, so this is a good place to start is his video and he has loads more on his site...

That video is two hours.
Not for me.
I'd rather ;listen to you.
 

Edward

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That video is two hours.
Not for me.
I'd rather ;listen to you.

Well that will take a day or three, lol. I have a lot of things going on right now. I can though, if you're patient enough with me...
 

for_his_glory

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We agree and disagree.
At the beginning and the end of your post.
The Talmud shows us that the Rabbis have been debating the meaning of the Nephilim since the beginning.
I was never traditionally taught that the fallen angels were the Nephilim, and I was Baptist.
The fallen angels have always been held in the abyss until the end as per the letter of Jude.
The Nephilim have to be interpretted differently.
And therefore demons are not fallen angels.
That has to be rethought by people as well.
2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

A little background first to show these angels that are in chains of darkness are separate from the third that followed after Satan as they too rebelled against God leaving their first estate that was their proper place in heaven. These chained angels can not be the same angels as the principalities and power of darkness still in high places under the direction of Satan, Ephesians 6:12.

1 Peter 3:18-19 Jesus never went down to hell (lower parts of the earth) to preach as scripture says He went to preach to the spirits in prison. When Jesus laid in the tomb for three days his body was dead, but His spirit was very much alive. In 1 Peter 3:19 it says Jesus being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit went and preached to the spirits in prison. The spirits in prison that Jesus went to preach to are those angels that are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Scripture does not say what Jesus preached to them, but some speculate that He was proclaiming to these fallen angels that Satan had no victory over His death. These angels are separate from the third Satan gathered with him as these angels bound in chains kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day, Jude 1:5-7. These angels were disobedient when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being built, 1 Peter 3:18-19. Big difference between these chained angels and the other ones we read about in Ephesians 6:12. Notice where it says they are reserved in chains meaning they are bound by God and can no longer cause man to sin.

These other angels being a third that oppose God under the leadership of Satan as being his messengers here on earth as they too are created spirits of God that is why God could never destroy any of them because a spirit can not die. (Matthew 25:41; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1: 6; Ephesians 6:12). We often call these types of angels demons/devils/evil spirits/unclean spirits for which an everlasting fire is prepared by God for Satan and these angels, Matthew 25:41.

The term demon comes from the Greek "daimon". Demons (fallen angels) are also called evil spirits, unclean spirits and devils in scripture as they are disembodied spirits as angels have no form. The use of the terminology of demons, evil spirits, unclean spirits and devils are interchangeable in scripture as they all mean the same thing. They exist in a demonic realm as principalities, Romans 8:38, 39; Ephesians 6:12, and have a hierarchy of rulership controlled by Satan as being his messengers, Matthew 12:22-30; Mark 3:22; Luke 4:35. They have no physical form, but can viciously posses a body, Matthew 8:16-31; 12:43-45. Demons are numerous in numbering and can also speak like the Legion (2000) of unclean spirits in Mark 5:9.

Strong's Concordance: Demon
Part of speech: noun masculine
Transliteration: daimon
Definition: a demon
Usage: evil spirit, demon
 

Rollo Tamasi

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So, a third of the angels fell with satan, then more angels rebelled against God (without being enticed by satan) and were sent down to earth,
Jesus gave these angels the name of demons and there are too many to count.
Whose left in heaven?
Gabriel and Michael?
It must be lonely up there.
But your fantasy beliefs and your misuse of scripture is at the least entertaining.
 

Edward

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So, a third of the angels fell with satan, then more angels rebelled against God (without being enticed by satan) and were sent down to earth,
Jesus gave these angels the name of demons and there are too many to count.
Whose left in heaven?
Gabriel and Michael?
It must be lonely up there.
But your fantasy beliefs and your misuse of scripture is at the least entertaining.

The way that I understand it, the 1/3 of the Angels in Heaven which fell with Satan were cast out, then Genesis 6 chronicles how they took wives of the pretty earth women and had children and these beings were the Nephilim. They are not redeemable because they are hybrid beings and when it all go out of hand, the Lord caused a great flood which killed all of the Nephilim and giants. The fallen angels survived the flood because they could fly above the flood.

But all of the Nephilim died in the flesh body that they had but are doomed to walk the earth because their spirits can not go to Heaven. And that is where all of the demons and evil spirits came from that Jesus and His Disciples were casting out of people much of the time.
 

Rollo Tamasi

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The way that I understand it, the 1/3 of the Angels in Heaven which fell with Satan were cast out, then Genesis 6 chronicles how they took wives of the pretty earth women and had children and these beings were the Nephilim. They are not redeemable because they are hybrid beings and when it all go out of hand, the Lord caused a great flood which killed all of the Nephilim and giants. The fallen angels survived the flood because they could fly above the flood.

But all of the Nephilim died in the flesh body that they had but are doomed to walk the earth because their spirits can not go to Heaven. And that is where all of the demons and evil spirits came from that Jesus and His Disciples were casting out of people much of the time.
Again, that's a lovely fantasy.
I have a good imagination.
I could probably come up with an interesting fantasy as well.
 

wondering

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We agree and disagree.
At the beginning and the end of your post.
The Talmud shows us that the Rabbis have been debating the meaning of the Nephilim since the beginning.
I was never traditionally taught that the fallen angels were the Nephilim, and I was Baptist.
The fallen angels have always been held in the abyss until the end as per the letter of Jude.
The Nephilim have to be interpretted differently.
And therefore demons are not fallen angels.
That has to be rethought by people as well.
This is for you, for_his_glory and JLB :

Aren't angels sexless,,,asexual....
I don't think angels could have children.

Sorry, I haven't been following along well, but this came to mind.
Maybe it's been answered already....
 

for_his_glory

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This is for you, for_his_glory and JLB :

Aren't angels sexless,,,asexual....
I don't think angels could have children.

Sorry, I haven't been following along well, but this came to mind.
Maybe it's been answered already....
You are correct.

Angels are essentially “ministering spirits,” (Hebrews 1:14) and do not have physical bodies like humans. Jesus declared that “a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have” (Luke 24:37-39).

Angels have no gender (Matthew 22:30) and are innumerable (Hebrews 12:22). They are incarnate in human form at times (Genesis 18:2-8) for the purpose of God's ministry.
 

wondering

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You are correct.

Angels are essentially “ministering spirits,” (Hebrews 1:14) and do not have physical bodies like humans. Jesus declared that “a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have” (Luke 24:37-39).

Angels have no gender (Matthew 22:30) and are innumerable (Hebrews 12:22). They are incarnate in human form at times (Genesis 18:2-8) for the purpose of God's ministry.
OK....so the giants could not have been angels....

There are some verses in scripture that I can't spend time on...
They're just too confusing to me.

I'll keep reading along....but don't have anything to add to the discussion.
 

for_his_glory

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So, a third of the angels fell with satan, then more angels rebelled against God (without being enticed by satan) and were sent down to earth,
Jesus gave these angels the name of demons and there are too many to count.
Whose left in heaven?
Gabriel and Michael?
It must be lonely up there.
But your fantasy beliefs and your misuse of scripture is at the least entertaining.
If you are directing this to me it is explained in the scriptures I posted. It's something you will have to study on your own like I did.

How do you explain these principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world and spiritual wickedness in high places in Ephesians 6:12 because the angels mentioned in Jude 1:6 are symbolically bound in chains as they can not go forth in the world.
 

for_his_glory

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OK....so the giants could not have been angels....

There are some verses in scripture that I can't spend time on...
They're just too confusing to me.

I'll keep reading along....but don't have anything to add to the discussion.
Yes, giants are not angels. I explained it all in post #46 about the hereditary autosomal dominant pituitary gene such as AIP and how giants came to be as what we call giants are nothing more than exceptionally tall people usually over 6 feet. 1 Samuel 17:4 Goliath was four cubits and a span (a cubit was about 18 inches and a span 9 inches) so he was around 6'9". The tallest person ever recoded was Robert Wadlow who was 8'11".
 

Rollo Tamasi

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If you are directing this to me it is explained in the scriptures I posted. It's something you will have to study on your own like I did.

How do you explain these principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world and spiritual wickedness in high places in Ephesians 6:12 because the angels mentioned in Jude 1:6 are symbolically bound in chains as they can not go forth in the world.
So Ephesians 6:12 cannot be explained in the flesh, the evil spirits are spoken of in 1 Timothy 4:1; they are deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Do you see hear that evil spirits and demons are not one and the same?
Who are they?
Evil spirits are never referenced as fallen angels.
That leaves you with demons.
Prove to me that demons are fallen angels.
Scripture please.
 
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