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Bible Study Whom do I need to pray to for being saved? Either Jehovah or Jesus?

Jesus=>To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

The Father has glorified the Son and in the Son the Father is glorified.

Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

Hebrews=>To which of the angels did God ever say, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"?

So the writer of Hebrews has taken pain to state the name Jesus inherited is above the angels of God. It is quite clear that all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell IN Him. Jesus=>It is the Father in me......

Jesus is ALL that the Father is. Therefore Jesus is called both God and Son. But He himself is firstborn.
Randy


Randy, do you believe Jesus is Lord, the Lord God of Israel?

Or do you believe Jesus came into existence when He was born of Mary, and is only a man?

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


JLB
 
Gods Firstborn would be a being and such a being would make such a statement, (Before Abraham was I am) , in reply to you know Abraham your not yet 50 years old.

Yes, I am stating there was a time Jesus was not. He is Gods firstborn. I have the Spirit of Christ in me. I tell you ask Him (Jesus)

"Dear Lord are you Gods firstborn"

You can ask Jesus anything without fear.

Randy
Hi Randy,

JLB and Yeshua have something going on and I'm getting a bit confused. Am new here.

Just would like to say this and then I think that's it for me here:

I agree with what JLB said regarding the reference to the great I AM. It's what I wanted to say only he did it better.
He also quotes Colossians 1:16 (which I THINK I also quoted) which is a very important verse for this conversaton, and I also think I had said that we need to trust John on this - he also said that Jesus created all and was nothing created without Him. (this might be the verse I quoted instead of Colossians).

Also, how would you explain John 6.38? And John 17:5? Here Jesus is saying that He shared the glory with the Father BEFORE the world was. So He CREATED the world. Just as John says in 1.

Here's my problem with your view. If it's correct then Jesus was some kind of divine being. Okay. That means He's on the same level as Krishna, for instance. That means that maybe the resurrection isn't true. It means He was just really a Messiah, in the Jewish sense of the word. It means He was a bit crazy, maybe. It means He committed suicide when He went to the cross. He knew when He went to Jerusalem in Holy Week at Passover time that the Pharisees and Sanhedrin were very mad at Him and He knew He was going to His death, as proved by His conversations with Peter and the apostles.

So we have to accept that Jesus was fully God and fully man - or we fall into the above trap. I don't see how this could be any other way.

No matter how difficult it is for the Trinity to be understood, we must at least accept it in some way. Because if we don't, then how do you explain the Holy Spirit? Is it just the spirit of God? Then why is He referred to as a person.
And if Jesus is less than God, then why did He send the apostles on the great commission saying: Go and preach and baptize in the name of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit? Sounds to me like they're all equal. OR, He would have said to baptize in the name of The Father.

Could Jesus have been so silly as to put Himself on the same level as God, if He were not? Was he dillusionel?

Wondering
 
Here Jesus is saying that He shared the glory with the Father BEFORE the world was.


Great point, brother. :salute

And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. John 17:5

I haven't used that scripture, very good point, as there are some here who claim that Jesus had no existence before he was born of the virgin Mary.


JLB
 
Hello Tracy,

The only "name" God had in the beginning is I AM. God is who He is. It's not really a name. In the beginning He was just God, the great Almighty who created everything visible and invisible. He didn't really have a name since there was no one to call on Him. When God told Moses to say I AM sent me, God did not mean this to be a name, but He was addressing His nature.

After He revealed Himself to Abraham who became the Father of the Hebrew people and of us all, man began to give God names. As man understood the different attributes of God, man so named Him. You must have done a study for God's names. Each one means something different.

Elohim: The Strong One
El Shaddai: God Almighty
Yaweh: The self.existing God
Adonai: The Master

Jehovah is a mistranslation, or English version of Yaweh Or YHWH, since the Israelites respected God so much they would not pronounce His name, so it was written in a way that could not be pronounced.

Someone out there might have more information on this. Or you could do your own study online. It's very interesting. So although God had different names in the O.T., He referred to Himself as the great I AM to Moses.

I feel that the O.T. names are okay to use, but they denote a different feeling from the name our Lord gave us to use: Father. Never in the O.T. is the word Father used to address God. Jesus truly makes us understand that we are His children, and makes God known to us and brings Him closer to us.

So, since we're living in the New Covenant times, I like to use the word God, or Father, or Lord, or Jesus. Jesus Himself taught us to pray to Our Father, in Mathew. For instance, Jehovah kind of reminds me of the Jehovah witnesses who do not accept Jesus as God as we do and so are not living in the New Covenant as we are.

Wondering
Hi, Wondering
Your answer is perfect. But if we hold onto the name of Jesus forever, will we be saved?
Revelation 3:12 says, “Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God: and I will write on him my new name.” What's your opinion about this scripture?
 
Great point, brother. :salute

And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. John 17:5

I haven't used that scripture, very good point, as there are some here who claim that Jesus had no existence before he was born of the virgin Mary.


JLB
Hey! I'm a sister!

JLB,

I'm a bit ignorant about this Jesus concept. It sounds like Arianism to me, or something like that.
But I'm not sure!
Are some saying that JESUS didn't exist as Jesus, or that He didn't exist as the 2nd person of the Trinity?
AND, would there be a difference? I'd like to get to this.

Here's what I think in a nutshell:
Jesus ALWAYS existed as the 2nd person of the Trinity. When He was on earth, the 2nd person of the Trinity STILL existed somehow that we're not going to really ever understand. There was ALWAYS the Holy Trinity, kept intact.

However, God, becoming man, DID have a beginning and that beginning was Jesus.

Is this clear to you? Do you agree? Is this what Randy is talking about? He's a bit mysterious to me.

The idea is new to me (and I'm not even a young gal!) but Arianism (if this is what we're talking about) creates really big problems. The bible is full of scripture that demonstrates that Jesus existed BEFORE He was born as a man. (but existing not as Jesus). John 6:38. He came DOWN FROM HEAVEN. He was in heaven BEFORE he came down to earth. We men were created and did NOT come down from heaven. So right there is a big difference.

Wondering
 
Hi Randy,

JLB and Yeshua have something going on and I'm getting a bit confused. Am new here.

Just would like to say this and then I think that's it for me here:

I agree with what JLB said regarding the reference to the great I AM. It's what I wanted to say only he did it better.
He also quotes Colossians 1:16 (which I THINK I also quoted) which is a very important verse for this conversaton, and I also think I had said that we need to trust John on this - he also said that Jesus created all and was nothing created without Him. (this might be the verse I quoted instead of Colossians).

Also, how would you explain John 6.38? And John 17:5? Here Jesus is saying that He shared the glory with the Father BEFORE the world was. So He CREATED the world. Just as John says in 1.

Here's my problem with your view. If it's correct then Jesus was some kind of divine being. Okay. That means He's on the same level as Krishna, for instance. That means that maybe the resurrection isn't true. It means He was just really a Messiah, in the Jewish sense of the word. It means He was a bit crazy, maybe. It means He committed suicide when He went to the cross. He knew when He went to Jerusalem in Holy Week at Passover time that the Pharisees and Sanhedrin were very mad at Him and He knew He was going to His death, as proved by His conversations with Peter and the apostles.

So we have to accept that Jesus was fully God and fully man - or we fall into the above trap. I don't see how this could be any other way.

No matter how difficult it is for the Trinity to be understood, we must at least accept it in some way. Because if we don't, then how do you explain the Holy Spirit? Is it just the spirit of God? Then why is He referred to as a person.
And if Jesus is less than God, then why did He send the apostles on the great commission saying: Go and preach and baptize in the name of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit? Sounds to me like they're all equal. OR, He would have said to baptize in the name of The Father.

Could Jesus have been so silly as to put Himself on the same level as God, if He were not? Was he dillusionel?

Wondering
The world was made "through the Son". Jesus was with God before the world began. Since you like to believe Jesus ,as you quoted Him , do you believe Him when Jesus states that the Father is His God? Do you believe Him when Jesus states the Father is greater then Him? Or when it becomes a roadblock to your theology you then can't accept HIS words?

Nothing has changed we do baptize in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit but some of us note the word "Son"
 
Randy, do you believe Jesus is Lord, the Lord God of Israel?

Or do you believe Jesus came into existence when He was born of Mary, and is only a man?

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


JLB
I believe ,and you didn't read what I already posted or you would know the answer already, that Jesus has always been the Son. Gods firstborn. Gods firstborn means first. Before creation, before the 4 creatures around Gods throne before the Angels of God.

Reread my posts as we disagree on some points and agree on others as I am out of town typing on my iPad.

Randy
 
The world was made "through the Son". Jesus was with God before the world began. Since you like to believe Jesus ,as you quoted Him , do you believe Him when Jesus states that the Father is His God? Do you believe Him when Jesus states the Father is greater then Him? Or when it becomes a roadblock to your theology you then can't accept HIS words?

Nothing has changed we do baptize in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit but some of us note the word "Son"
Randy,

Here's my problem with all this:

I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU!

Are you NOT a trinitarian? THAT I would understand. I cannot address an issue if it's unclear. Obviously, JLB understands where you are with this a lot better than I do and this is fine - the world does not revolve around me.

You say Jesus has always been the firstborn. Born before creation. But still BORN. That means that God made Him just like he made us (created, I should say). So what's the difference between Him and us?? If He's the firstborn of many, then why aren't we more like Him? It's okay if you're not a trinitarian, it just would be nice to know.

Regarding roadblocks to my theology. YES. This would be a roadblock to my theology.

When Jesus is saying the Father is greater than Him, or that the Father is God, I had already explained that this is due to the fact that as Jesus, as man, He was limited in what He could do on earth and the Father WAS greater than He was at that particular time.

Here's why it would be a very great roadblock if you were right. (and I'm not even sure I really understand you):

If Jesus is not God then we're all in big trouble. You must know the 1st commandment. God is a jealous God. He wants no other Gods before Him. So we've been worshipping a FALSE God?? The ramifications are unsurmountable. It means we're worshipping a man. It means a whole religion has been created around a lie.

Are you saying the apostles were lying? Are you saying we cannot trust them? This is what our whole faith is based on! If we cannot trust the apostles, what exactly are we basing our faith on? So the Jews are right? We should be worshipping Jehovah God? Then Jesus, even as Son, has no importance at all. Is this what you're saying? Who would care if He's the Son, the Firstborn, or whatever you want to call Him. We'd be worshipping a false god!

There are scriptures I could quote regarding how the apostles wrote what they witnessed with their own eyes. But what would be the point if you're right?? Are you saying the Trinity was a made-up concept so we COULD worship Jesus? And what would have been the point?

Please don't answer with questions. Sometimes I use this method to make people think - but I've presented my case clearly and don't need to think any further.

I know it's my ignorance getting in the way - I just wish you'd state clearly what you're saying.

Wondering
P.S. You never answered my question regarding the Holy Spirit. What or Who is the Holy Spirit? Why do you notice the word "Son" and not the words "Holy Spirit"??
 
Yesterday, I met sister Lili, she asked me a question, “Whom do I need to pray to for being saved? Either Jehovah or Jesus? Jehovah is the Father, Jesus is the son. Father is greater than Son. Should we pray to the Holy Father Jehovah?
Isaiah 43:10-11, it recorded, ‘…before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
And Exodus 3:15 records, ‘…the LORD God … is my name for ever, and this is my memorial to all generations.
But ‘Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.’(Acts 4:12) (kjv) So I'm at a loss whose name I should pray! Can you tell me?”
I didn't answer her question. Because I thought I only prayed to Lord Jesus, and did as what Lord asked me to do, then I can be saved. I was confused about this question. Whom do I need to pray to for being saved?

the literal name and the manifestation of God "Jehovah" are no longer current, because God has officially annulled them through His Son since 2 millennia (that is why the name "Jehovah" does not exist literally anywhere in biblical books of the New Testament), now only the principled address of the name "Jehovah" remains, which from (third-person) human point of view should be: "That Who really is the only true (Lord) God of all the boundless universe(however boundless the universe considered as a whole without any subdividing differentiation at all is)", why is it so?!, because satan had had an inner/domestic power in the "heaven" for the time from the original sin(fall) to the official entry into effect of the New Testament (after the Lord, Jesus, died on the cross), with which it had then been able to manifest somehow as a part of God Himself, including by the name (of) "Jehovah", inculcating imperfect ordinances in the (old) covenant that are inimical to the worshipers as well as to the humankind in general, so the manifestation "Jehovah" had more or less been satanic (unfortunately), that is why the true God and His Son had to remove satan from Their system domain and to clean the covenant of the imperfect commandments that had been inculcated by the kingdom of satan, so the God's manifestation "Jehovah" has been suspended, and now only the true Lord God is current by the name (of) "Jesus Christ", and this time without any satanic influence, but the prayer should be addressed to God the Father according as Jesus, the Lord, says in Matthew 6th chapter, yet "in the name of Your Son/Jesus (Christ)" or "in Your Son's/Jesus (Christ)'s name" can be added to the prayer as completive or before "Amen."

here are some evidential biblical quotes:

here is how satan had had an inner/domestic power in "heaven" before Jesus' first coming:

Job 1:6-12 "there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.",

Job 2:1-6 "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life."

and here is how the inner/domestic power of satan that it had had in the "heaven" has been destroyed and (how) the imperfect ordinances of the covenant have been officially annulled:

Matthew 5:38- "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil(i.e. do not render evil for evil to any human): but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also(i.e. but if any person treats you badly, treat it well)...",

John 12:31-32 "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out(i.e. now the whole inner/domestic power of the devil will permanently be destroyed). And I, if(i.e. and when) I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.",

John 14:30 "Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world(i.e. the wicked) cometh, and hath nothing in me.",

Matthew 27:50-56 "Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom(i.e. all the imperfect/inimical part of the ordinances in the God's covenant/testament have completely been annulled); and the earth did quake(i.e. and the powers did shake), and the rocks rent(i.e. and the whole inner/domestic power of satan has permanently been removed/destroyed); And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many(note: because when the devil had had that power in the "heaven", it had been able to hold their bodies unresurrected in the graves). Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God. And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.",

Colossians 2:14-15 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances(i.e. annulling the satanic part of the ordinances in the God's covenant/testament) that was against us(i.e. that was prejudicial to the people), which was contrary to us(i.e. which was adverse to us), and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers(i.e. and having denounced the unrighteous spiritual/religious systems and powers), he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.",

Revelation 12:3-12 "there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea(i.e. woe to the worshipers of the human(666) religion and the occultism)! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

MC and HNY
Blessings
 
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Hi, Wondering
Your answer is perfect. But if we hold onto the name of Jesus forever, will we be saved?
Revelation 3:12 says, “Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God: and I will write on him my new name.” What's your opinion about this scripture?
Hi Tracy,

Yes. If we hold on to the name of Jesus forever, we WILL be saved.

I'm reminded of Acts 4:11-12
11"He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone. 12"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

You're sending me to Revelation 3:12. I'm not very good with Revelation. I'm one of those - what could you do?
It's about the 7 churches - this is the Church at Philadelphia. It speaks of names changing. Jesus is a new name. It means God Saves. What more could be said?

If we persevere, salvation will be ours. We'll be members of the New City of Jerusalem. Jesus will be the New King. We will go no more out - our home will be permanent.

Could you share your idea? I'm very bad with Revelation.

Wondering
 
I believe ,and you didn't read what I already posted or you would know the answer already, that Jesus has always been the Son. Gods firstborn. Gods firstborn means first. Before creation, before the 4 creatures around Gods throne before the Angels of God.

Reread my posts as we disagree on some points and agree on others as I am out of town typing on my iPad.

Randy

Do you believe He is the Lord God, or a man, or an angel?

Here's a hint -

He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:17

If He is before all things, then that means angels, and before man... that would only leave Him as being God, God the Son.

I gave this verse to others, but it seemed to be outside their "bandwidth".

The writer of the book of Hebrews says -

But to the Son He says:“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
Hebrews 1:8


JLB
 
Hey! I'm a sister!

JLB,

I'm a bit ignorant about this Jesus concept. It sounds like Arianism to me, or something like that.
But I'm not sure!
Are some saying that JESUS didn't exist as Jesus, or that He didn't exist as the 2nd person of the Trinity?
AND, would there be a difference? I'd like to get to this.

Here's what I think in a nutshell:
Jesus ALWAYS existed as the 2nd person of the Trinity. When He was on earth, the 2nd person of the Trinity STILL existed somehow that we're not going to really ever understand. There was ALWAYS the Holy Trinity, kept intact.

However, God, becoming man, DID have a beginning and that beginning was Jesus.

Is this clear to you? Do you agree? Is this what Randy is talking about? He's a bit mysterious to me.

The idea is new to me (and I'm not even a young gal!) but Arianism (if this is what we're talking about) creates really big problems. The bible is full of scripture that demonstrates that Jesus existed BEFORE He was born as a man. (but existing not as Jesus). John 6:38. He came DOWN FROM HEAVEN. He was in heaven BEFORE he came down to earth. We men were created and did NOT come down from heaven. So right there is a big difference.

Wondering


Oh, I'm sorry.

My bad. :hug


We men were created and did NOT come down from heaven.

Oh, you got me... you are a man! :poke

Where did we come down from, if not from heaven?:confused


For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Romans 8:29



JLB
 
Oh, I'm sorry.

My bad. :hug




Oh, you got me... you are a man! :poke

Where did we come down from, if not from heaven?:confused


For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Romans 8:29



JLB
JLB,
Are you saying we lived in heaven before we were born??
Please don't quote Romans 8:29 again. We could discuss that, but first could I have a Yes or No answer?
And please don't answer NO! (to my 2nd question).

Wondering
 
.
Dear Sister wondering, many attempt to put limits on God, but He does know the end from the beginnings. Then just because He knows it He does not cause its effect.
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Col 1:15 Who (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature. Some have read into this scripture that Jesus was created, but no, as man He is the firstborn of the new creation we who believe in Him become.

As for God knowing the very ones that do receive Jesus as Savior He plans the new creation to become like His Son if I’m saying it correctly. In Christ God even works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. (Php 2:13)

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

The following excerpt from a study I have of Romans by Grace & Glory may help.
http://www.gracegod.com/Study Books/Romans1.pdf
“Whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He, also glorified" - 8:30. Is this not almost too good to believe? And, the most marvelous part about it is the fact that God has put Himself upon record in such a way, as being absolutely sovereign in the matter of man's salvation. Election is certainly taught here; but, it is the election of a new creation and not the individual, that is in question here. We were identified with Christ as a new creation in the eternal past. God purposed in His sovereignty, a golden chain of four links for our blessing. These can never be broken. He has predestinated and called and justified and glorified us, in His Son. Christ is the Head of this new creation, and all that is true of Him is true of all those in Him. These words could not refer to us personally; for they were written when as yet there were none of us who are living today. And we, to whom the first three links - predestined, called, and justified - might apply, are not yet glorified; therefore, the conclusion is obvious. These are God's sovereign purposes for us in Christ. They all have been fulfilled to Him; hence are sure, to all those that believe. He is the proof that God will not fail His Word. And we have experienced three of these blessings already.”

Blessings in Christ Jesus.
.
 
Do you believe He is the Lord God, or a man, or an angel?

Here's a hint -

He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:17

If He is before all things, then that means angels, and before man... that would only leave Him as being God, God the Son.

I gave this verse to others, but it seemed to be outside their "bandwidth".

The writer of the book of Hebrews says -

But to the Son He says:“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
Hebrews 1:8


JLB
But to the SON.....

I believe Jesus is And always has been the Son.
As the writer of Hebrews takes pain to note Jesus inherited a name above the Angels of God. As Paul wrote the fullness was pleased to dwell IN Him. All the fullness of God the Father dwells in the Fathers firstborn.
In that Jesus is ALL that the Father is. The image of the invisible God and the exact representation of Gods being. The creation that God the Father made He made through His Son. The Father has glorified the Son. Those that listen and learn from the Father will go to the Son and Jesus will raise them up on the last day. That is the Fathers will.

Randy
 
Absolutely 100% correct!!

If Jesus is not fully God then we are not saved.
If Jesus is not fully man then we are not saved.

iakov the fool
Jesus, (with clear language), stated as the Father has life in Himself He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. And Jesus can give such life to anyone Jesus is pleased to give it. Jesus stated He has authority to forgive sin and all authority in heaven and earth has been GIVEN to Him. All the fullness of God was pleased to dwell in Jesus. He is a high priest forever and is able to save those that come to Him forever. For just as He lives by the living Father in Him we live by Jesus in us. The HS was sent in Jesus's name and remains in us by Jesus's will.

Randy
 
Jesus, (with clear language), stated as the Father has life in Himself He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. And Jesus can give such life to anyone Jesus is pleased to give it. Jesus stated He has authority to forgive sin and all authority in heaven and earth has been GIVEN to Him. All the fullness of God was pleased to dwell in Jesus. He is a high priest forever and is able to save those that come to Him forever. For just as He lives by the living Father in Him we live by Jesus in us. The HS was sent in Jesus's name and remains in us by Jesus's will.

Randy
Your above is to Jim Parker. I'd just like to say:

Jesus stated He has authority to forgive sin and all authority in heaven and earth has been GIVEN to Him

I see another problem.

If the authority was given to Jesus, He could also pass it on. Just like the CEO of a corp. could pass on some authority. So if Jesus has the authority to forgive sin, and then he passed it on to the apostles, John 20:23, then the Catholic church is correct in the doctrine of confession. You have stated their position perfectly.

But if we want to believe that He is God, then we can say that only God can forgive sin (and He must have meant something else). Is this not why the Sanhedrin was so upset with Him? Did they not accuse Him of declaring Himself God by forgiving sin because only God can forgive sin?

So, once again, we're speaking of Jesus as God in human form. It's in this state that authority has been "given" to Him. Jesus always had authority as God, the 2nd person. It didn't have to be given to Him. He humbled Himself when He became a mere man:

Philippians 2:4.9 “Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

I started with verse 4 because it explains how we're to do as Jesus did: " Do not merely look out for your own interests, but the interests of others. " Jesus, having become man, was looking out for our interests. As a Man, He was given authority. As God, He always had it. Here again we encounter the dichotomy:
Jesus is fully God
Jesus is fully Man

Wondering

 
But to the SON.....

I believe Jesus is And always has been the Son.
As the writer of Hebrews takes pain to note Jesus inherited a name above the Angels of God. As Paul wrote the fullness was pleased to dwell IN Him. All the fullness of God the Father dwells in the Fathers firstborn.
In that Jesus is ALL that the Father is. The image of the invisible God and the exact representation of Gods being. The creation that God the Father made He made through His Son. The Father has glorified the Son. Those that listen and learn from the Father will go to the Son and Jesus will raise them up on the last day. That is the Fathers will.

Randy

But to the Son He says:“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

Is that a Yes or a No to my question.

Do you believe Jesus is Lord, the Lord God?

Yes
Or
No

JLB
 
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