Bible Study Whom do I need to pray to for being saved? Either Jehovah or Jesus?

[JLB]

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

Yes Jesus is Lord.

Do you believe Lord is a reference to God, or do you believe that Lord is a reference to just a man?

Messiah or Christ is a reference to the man Christ Jesus.


JLB

 

[JLB]

God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it.

19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. John 2:19-21

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 1 Peter 3:18-19


The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7

It was God, "Elohim", that created man in their image.

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; Genesis 1:26

These also, each had a part in raising Jesus from the dead.

Elohim is a plural reference to God, the creator.

We see from the New Testament that these three are One.


Jesus clearly stated these words...

“Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
But He was speaking of the temple of His body.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Jesus with God in the beginning and the creation being created through Him does not mean He always was. It means He was before the world began. He is Gods firstborn and as is clearly written the fullness was pleased to dwell IN Him. The Father is that fullness not Jesus. Otherwise you would have two Gods.

The Father is that fullness not Jesus.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

Which one of these three, do you claim are not God?


God, Elohim, is a plural reference to God.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; Genesis 1:26

God said, Let Us make...

Us and Our means more than one.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Jesus=>
“If you love me, keep my commands.16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you.18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.21Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

Father=>In the last days I will pour out My Spirit...

Acts 2:=>
God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
35 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”’[f]

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

Jesus said He will pour out the Spirit of Grace when He comes...

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Zechariah 12:10

• Peter says this is the Spirit of Christ in Zechariah the prophet, foretelling of His suffering.

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11


The Spirit of Christ in the OT prophets also said:

For I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
I, even I, am the Lord,And besides Me there is no savior.
Isaiah 43:3,11

The New Testament reveals that Jesus Christ is our great God and Savior.

looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:13

Jesus is proclaimed to be the Lord God and Savior by the OT and the NT.



JLB

 

[JLB]

His Father's name is YHWH (Yahweh). Yeshua's God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (the God revealed throughout the OT who you say is Jesus).

2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush...
6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” 15 Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’
Exodus 3:2,6,14-15

• In this scripture, the Angel of the Lord appears to Moses, and Moses says that he himself was afraid to look upon God.

Three other, independent scriptures, also say the same thing, that the Angel of the Lord was God.
Judges 13:21-22 - Genesis 16:11-13 - Zechariah 12:8

In addition, It was the Angel of the Lord, as Lord and God, who made Covenant with the children of Israel and led them out of Egypt.

Then the Angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said: “I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you. 2 And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed My voice. Why have you done this?3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’” 4 So it was, when the Angel of the Lord spoke these words to all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voices and wept.
Judges 2:1-4

• Then this same Angel of the Lord declares His name to be I AM.

15 Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’

• Jesus also declares His name to be I AM.

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Then they took up stones to throw at Him;
John 8:58-59



JLB

 

[Randy]

Yes Jesus is Lord.

Do you believe Lord is a reference to God, or do you believe that Lord is a reference to just a man?

Messiah or Christ is a reference to the man Christ Jesus.


JLB

You know what I believe. I have posted and posted. He is all that the Father is.

 

[Randy]

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

Which one of these three, do you claim are not God?


God, Elohim, is a plural reference to God.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; Genesis 1:26

God said, Let Us make...

Us and Our means more than one.


JLB

There is One God the Father. The Holy Spirit is His Spirit. Gods Spirit searches the mind of the Spirit and speaks what he hears. As in those that listen to the Father..The Son spoke the same Gods words as in "its the Father in me doing his work"

I don't view the Spirit of the Sovereign Lord as a separate distinct being from the Father with His own mind and will. I view the HS as God states, "His Spirit". Gods own Spirit is divine as God is Spirit.

Jesus is Gods Son. The fullness that was pleased to dwell in Him is the Father. In that Jesus is all that the Father is but not on His own as He is Gods firstborn with His own spirit as in "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"

Randy

 

[JLB]

You know what I believe. I have posted and posted. He is all that the Father is.

The Father is God.

JLB

 

[Randy]

19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. John 2:19-21

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 1 Peter 3:18-19


The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7

It was God, "Elohim", that created man in their image.

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; Genesis 1:26

These also, each had a part in raising Jesus from the dead.

Elohim is a plural reference to God, the creator.

We see from the New Testament that these three are One.


Jesus clearly stated these words...

“Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
But He was speaking of the temple of His body.



JLB

Did Jesus die?
yes, the tent of the body that His Spirit with the Father in Him dwelt died and as the world stated He died. In that context.
No, Jesus, as you posted, was alive by the Spirit and never dies. As Jesus taught, repeat as Jesus taught ,He lives by the Living Father and we live by Him. The Father, again as Jesus taught, has granted the Son to have life in Himself.
Randy

 

[Randy]

Yes Jesus is Lord.

Do you believe Lord is a reference to God, or do you believe that Lord is a reference to just a man?

Messiah or Christ is a reference to the man Christ Jesus.


JLB

There is a distinction being made. One God and One Lord; However Jesus has all the fullness of God in Him, which includes all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, and the creation was made through Him. So it is proper to honor Him as the Father did with a divine title. Jesus is called both God and Son. But as I have stated and stated He has always been the Son.

 

[JLB]

There is One God the Father. The Holy Spirit is His Spirit. Gods Spirit searches the mind of the Spirit and speaks what he hears. As in those that listen to the Father..The Son spoke the same Gods words as in "its the Father in me doing his work"

I don't view the Spirit of the Sovereign Lord as a separate distinct being from the Father with His own mind and will. I view the HS as God states, "His Spirit". Gods own Spirit is divine as God is Spirit.

Jesus is Gods Son. The fullness that was pleased to dwell in Him is the Father. In that Jesus is all that the Father is but not on His own as He is Gods firstborn with His own spirit as in "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"

Randy

In your opinion, Who is included as God, Elohim, in this verse:

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; Genesis 1:26

I believe, The Father, The Word [Son] and The Holy Spirit are the ones making Man in Their Image.

I believe Elohim refers to the Godhead of the New Testament.

We know the scriptures plainly say of Jesus, that by Him all things were created, and He is before all things.

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth... Colossians 1:16

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; Genesis 1:26


Do you agree that Jesus was among those in Genesis who created man?



JLB

 

[Randy]

The Father is God.

JLB

I agree the Father, as Jesus taught, is the One true God.

 

[JLB]

Did Jesus die?
yes, the tent of the body that His Spirit with the Father in Him dwelt died and as the world stated He died. In that context.
No, Jesus, as you posted, was alive by the Spirit and never dies. As Jesus taught, repeat as Jesus taught ,He lives by the Living Father and we live by Him. The Father, again as Jesus taught, has granted the Son to have life in Himself.
Randy

19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. John 2:19-21

This scripture says Jesus raised His body.


JLB

 

[Randy]

In your opinion, Who is included as God, Elohim, in this verse:

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; Genesis 1:26

I believe, The Father, The Word [Son] and The Holy Spirit are the ones making Man in Their Image.

I believe Elohim refers to the Godhead of the New Testament.

We know the scriptures plainly say of Jesus, that by Him all things were created, and He is before all things.

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth... Colossians 1:16

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; Genesis 1:26


Do you agree that Jesus was among those in Genesis who created man?



JLB

The Father created "through" the Son. It is the Father in the Son doing His work.
Randy

 

[JLB]

I agree the Father, as Jesus taught, is the One true God.

Please post the scripture, whereby Jesus said the Father is the One true God.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7

These three are One.

 

[JLB]

The Father created "through" the Son. It is the Father in the Son doing His work.
Randy

I agree with you that all things were created through Him, however this does not dissolve the truth that all things were created by Him either, as well as all things were created for Him.

This scripture says, For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth... Colossians 1:16

We also have other scriptures that verity this truth as well.

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
John 1:3


These scriptures lead me to the conclusion that He, Jesus, was one of those mentioned in Genesis, that created Adam and Eve.

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; Genesis 1:26


JLB

 

[Randy]

I agree with you that all things were created through Him, however this does not dissolve the truth that all things were created by Him either, as well as all things were created for Him.

This scripture says, For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth... Colossians 1:16

We also have other scriptures that verity this truth as well.

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
John 1:3


These scriptures lead me to the conclusion that He, Jesus, was one of those mentioned in Genesis, that created Adam and Eve.

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; Genesis 1:26


JLB

Haven't you read Jesus prayed "Our Father..." God is the heavenly Father of all beings. Including His firstborn.
yet "for us" there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

I think we will just have to disagree on some points. Jesus as stated has His own spirit.

Randy

 

[GodsGrace]

To Randy and JLB,

I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt.
Can I safely assume the Trinity is not being discussed here?

Wondering

 

[Randy]

To Randy and JLB,

I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt.
Can I safely assume the Trinity is not being discussed here?

Wondering

We were discussing the relationship between Father and Son mostly. We also spoke of Gods Holy Spirit. The three that testify.

Randy

 

[JLB]

To Randy and JLB,

I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt.
Can I safely assume the Trinity is not being discussed here?

Wondering

Since this is a key foundational building block of our faith, the enemy seems to attack this doctrine of truth the most viciously.

Though I have used a dozen or more scriptures that plainly refer to Jesus Christ as YHWH the Lord God, they are denied and explained away by those who choose to disobey the Gospel, by confessing Jesus as Lord.

There are those who would twist this scripture, to their own destruction, to mean that Lord is a reference to man, and not God.

15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. 2 Peter 3:16-18

This same Paul that Peter refers to in this epistle, says in his own epistle to Titus, when referring to the Lord -

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Titus 2:11-14

Paul plainly states that Jesus Christ is our great God. In addition, He also refers to Jesus as YHWH, in this same passage, by hard-linking Him as both Savior and Redeemer, which is an old testament reference to The God of Israel, YHWH the Lord God.

• For I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; Isaiah 43:3

• Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: Isaiah 43:14

So, with that said, I will not use a "non biblical" term such as Trinity, in my post's.

I use Godhead or Elohim.



JLB