I agree YHWH is Jesus.
H20 is H20, whether it's vapor, water of ice.
Likewise, the Sun is light, heat, and energy.
JLB
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Bible Study Whom do I need to pray to for being saved? Either Jehovah or Jesus?
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I agree YHWH is Jesus.
H20 is H20, whether it's vapor, water of ice.
Likewise, the Sun is light, heat, and energy.
JLB
Jim Parker
Member
What I'm saying from the KJV is: Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
and Jhn 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
So both the Father and the Son (God the Word incarnate) created the heavens and the earth.
Also, Gen 1:2 indicates that the Holy Spirit was also a participant: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
So, according to the Bible, God, the Trinity, created everything.
iakov the fool
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
You didn't tie it into your questions.
I had said that each person is different in what He does.
Ice
Vapor
Liquid
It's all water, but if I ask for vapor I get one thing in my glass -
If I ask for ice I get a different thing in my glass
If I ask for the liquid, still different.
But it's still all water. H2O and particles has nothing to do with what I was getting at. You brought up that water is a plural word but didn't explain.
Is "crowd" a plural word?
But this isn't English. (although I don't get your point).
This discussion is long passed what you were asking, to which I replied...
W
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I will ask it differently.
Is a city plural or singular?
Think of a city as One, made up of many.
Water is many H20 elements that make up a body of water.
A family is one, made up of many.
God is my family.
JLB
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
So you're saying God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
OKAY!
Let's get it to the titles and job of each.
If I say "Jesus" who do you think of?
All three or the "man" who went to the cross in Jerusalem?
If I say "The Father" do you think of all three or the Almighty God?
If I say "Holy Spirit" do you think of all three or the paraclete sent to walk by our side?
They're all 3 God, in nature, but each different in title.
Can we agree on this?
Wondering
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
City is singular but made up of many.
ditto for family.
I get it. I agree with you. I just sent off a post regarding titles.
Do we agree on titles??
And then I think this will be the end of this since I think the titles is the only concept separating us and it's not important enough to post forever.
Wondering
I'm saying The Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God.
I'm saying these Three, are One.
One Family.
JLB
No, First of all there is but ONE God the Father. There is also but ONE Lord Jesus Christ and He is worthy of a divine title but He has alway s been the Son. Gods firstborn. And in Jesus all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell. Jesus did state that the Father is in Him and in that manner He and the Father are one. However as a offspring of the God of all Jesus has His own spirit as in "Father into your hands I commit my spirit". The Holy Spirit is the Spirit the Father states is His own Spirit. That Spirit is therefore God. Jesus's spirit is Not divine. The divinity in the Son is the fullness of the Fathers Spirit. Jesus=>its the Father living in me doing His work.....
The creation that the One God made HE made through HIS Son.
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.3Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, AND Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.4I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do.5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
One God the Father; One Lord Jesus Christ.
So I guess we are going to have to disagree on the "how" Jesus is the image of the living invisible God and the exact representation of Gods being,
The Son was made flesh is the same as a body was prepared for Him. The Son that was, (His spirit), was in the tent of that fully human body. But again there is but ONE God.
Randy
To me in order to meet the criteria to be a separate distinct being one must have their own spirit, mind and will. As firstborn Jesus meets that standard. The Holy Spirit does not. The Holy Spirit carries out the will of the mind of the Spirit. God is Spirit and God states the Holy Spirit is HIS Spirit. As in, "I shall place my Spirit on Him... etc. The Holy Spirit then is not, (to me ) a separate distinct being from the Father. Though that Spirit may be perceived that way as He speaks what he hears and Gods very own Spirit is not limited to a body. Jesus stated every sin against Him would be forgiven but anyone who sins against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this age or the one to come. Again God is Spirit.
I do not believe that the HS or Spirit of the Sovereign Lord or Spirit of truth is a offspring of God. As I read that Spirit is the Fathers very own Spirit and there is but One God.
The Spirit speaks what He hears as in those that listen and learn from the "Father" go to the Son. Jesus also spoke the very words of God as in, "its the Father in me doing His work." and the words He spoke belonged to the Father. Those 3 Father, Son, Holy Spirit testify then to truth. Jesus therefore issued a command to baptize in the name of the Father, SON, Holy Spirit. That has NOT changed. Jesus is Christ the Lord. That has NOT changed. There is no other name under the heavens that one may be saved by other then Jesus. That has NOT changed. Again those that follow Gods will go to HIS Christ. That is how the Father chose to forgive sin. It was Jesus who endured the agony of the cross for the sake of the many and by His blood Jesus entered the true tabernacle in heaven. He has purchased us by His blood. The Father has placed all things in His hands. Jesus is worthy of honor and power and glory forever.
Randy
I do not believe that the HS or Spirit of the Sovereign Lord or Spirit of truth is a offspring of God. As I read that Spirit is the Fathers very own Spirit and there is but One God.
The Spirit speaks what He hears as in those that listen and learn from the "Father" go to the Son. Jesus also spoke the very words of God as in, "its the Father in me doing His work." and the words He spoke belonged to the Father. Those 3 Father, Son, Holy Spirit testify then to truth. Jesus therefore issued a command to baptize in the name of the Father, SON, Holy Spirit. That has NOT changed. Jesus is Christ the Lord. That has NOT changed. There is no other name under the heavens that one may be saved by other then Jesus. That has NOT changed. Again those that follow Gods will go to HIS Christ. That is how the Father chose to forgive sin. It was Jesus who endured the agony of the cross for the sake of the many and by His blood Jesus entered the true tabernacle in heaven. He has purchased us by His blood. The Father has placed all things in His hands. Jesus is worthy of honor and power and glory forever.
Randy
The scripture says these Three are One.
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7
The Father is not Three.
The plurality of Elohim created man in the beginning.
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; Genesis 1:26
John the baptist prepared the way for the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God, and is YHWH the Lord God.
The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Isaiah 40:3
This was a prophecy concerning John the baptist, preparing the way of the Lord Jesus Christ.
15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. 16 And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God.17 He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,’[b] and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.” Luke 1:15-17
JLB
He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.” Matthew 26:39
and again
And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’” Having said this, He breathed His last. Luke 23:46
These scriptures show us the separate will and Spirit of Christ.
- The Spirit of Christ is God.
- The Spirit of Christ is Omnipresent, residing in all His people. All created things exist within the Spirit of Christ as He upholds all things, and is before all things.
And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:17
I would like to address this post and discuss these things with you, however, I would ask that you give scripture, written out with chapter and verse, for each point you are making here, so we can discuss this very controversial subject, based on the actual language of the scriptures themselves.
Thanks JLB
I agree Jesus is a separate distinct person from the Father. I agree Jesus is before all things except His God. The Father. Jesus is firstborn. It has always been the Church of the Firstborn. I don't agree Jesus always was. Why don't you provide me scripture that states Jesus always was.
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abe
But the Spirit Jesus sent He received from the Father. And the One in Jesus is the Father. I have showed you those scriptures.
Jesus=>The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is upon me...
Father=>I shall place MY SPIRIT upon Him...
Fathers promise=>In the last days I will pour out MY SPIRIT
Jesus=>And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever--(that Spirit is sent in Jesus's name) and in a believer the Holy Spirit follows the will of Christ Jesus but is still the one and same Holy Spirit. Hence in me is The Spirit of Christ.
Whose Spirit spoke in the past and through Jesus?
It is also written
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Jesus=>It is the Father in me doing His work...
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Randy,
You want scripture stating Jesus always was. What's wrong with the most obvious one?
John 1:1...
"In the beginning was the word, and the word WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD..."
Jesus was clearly the Word of God as shown in John 1.
Would you have a different explanation for John 1?
The Word in Greek is Logos. Logos is the Word of God being made into a person. The jews understood about God's word "going out" and creating an effect. For instance in Psalms 33:6 and 147:15-18
The Logos was the desire of God, the thought of God, made real. Jesus is God made into a man, the same God who spoke the Word, the 2nd person of the Trinity -the WORD of God. It's plain that Jesus is that word made into a person in John 1.
Jesus is God's Word revealed to man. In John 14:9 Jesus says "Whoever has seen Me, has seen the Father."
Could God have existed without His thoughts? Without His word going out?
God's thoughts are a part of Himself. His Word is a part of Himself. Jesus is that thought and that Word, so He MUST have existed from as bar back as God existed. Which is always, since God has no beginning.
How else could you explain John 1?
Wondering
You want scripture stating Jesus always was. What's wrong with the most obvious one?
John 1:1...
"In the beginning was the word, and the word WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD..."
Jesus was clearly the Word of God as shown in John 1.
Would you have a different explanation for John 1?
The Word in Greek is Logos. Logos is the Word of God being made into a person. The jews understood about God's word "going out" and creating an effect. For instance in Psalms 33:6 and 147:15-18
The Logos was the desire of God, the thought of God, made real. Jesus is God made into a man, the same God who spoke the Word, the 2nd person of the Trinity -the WORD of God. It's plain that Jesus is that word made into a person in John 1.
Jesus is God's Word revealed to man. In John 14:9 Jesus says "Whoever has seen Me, has seen the Father."
Could God have existed without His thoughts? Without His word going out?
God's thoughts are a part of Himself. His Word is a part of Himself. Jesus is that thought and that Word, so He MUST have existed from as bar back as God existed. Which is always, since God has no beginning.
How else could you explain John 1?
Wondering
Yes, of course, as a Man.
Jesus became a little lower than the angels, so in that state of being, as a man, He was a little lower than the angels.
You have made him a little lower than the angels;
You have crowned him with glory and honor,
Hebrews 2:7
What we are discussing is what Jesus was, before He became flesh.
The scriptures teach Him as the Lord God, YHWH, who was before all things, and created all things, together with His Father and the Holy Spirit.
- Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh. 1 Timothy 3:16
- He is the Word of God who became flesh. John 1:1-3,14
- He is the Lord God who will come with the saints, on the Day of the Lord. Zechariah 14:5
- He is God the Son, who is YHWH. Hebrews 1:8
Hebrews 1:8
- He is the Lord God, Savior of Israel. Isaiah 43:3, Titus 2:13
- He is the Alpha and Omega, The First and Last. Revelation 22:12-13
12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Revelation 22:12-13
Jesus is the King of Israel, who will return from Heaven, and who will sit on the Throne of David in Jerusalem, and reign for 1000 years.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east...
Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You... And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zechariah 14:4-5,16-17
JLB
Jim Parker
Member
The teaching that the Son is "begotten" of the Father should not be taken in human terms. The word communicates a relationship between The Father and the Son. How there "came to be a Son begotten og the Father" remains a mystery.
Yes. And that one God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
There is no material (created) corollary and all attempts at analogy fall short of their goal.
iakov the fool
For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son. John 5:22
Yes, the relationship of a Father who beget His only begotten Son.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Colossians 1:15
JLB
Jim Parker
Member
Consider John 1:1,(NKJV) there are three statements made:
(1) In the beginning was the Word, In the beginning, the Word (AKA:Son) was already there. HE is co-eternal with the Father.
(2) and the Word was with God, The Word is a separate person from the Father and both are God.
(3) and the Word was God. Everything that God is, the Word (Son) is.
my 2 kopecks
iakov the fool