Bible Study Whom do I need to pray to for being saved? Either Jehovah or Jesus?

[Sinthesis]

Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 - His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 - And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.​

You've got it backwards. You need to be concerned that The Word of God knows your name.

Jhn 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:​

Sheep don't know the name of their Shepherd, they know His voice.

 

[Jim Parker]

Is God His name or job description?

both

Gods name is JESUS!

God's name is also "Father" and "Son" and "Holy Spirit."

 

[JLB]

Is God His name or job description? Like King David... David is his name, King is His job description... Gods name is JESUS!

 

[rthom7]

What an interesting read from all the posts here, new members and matured members alike...

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I would pray to Jesus for salvation, for only Jesus died to set the sinner from death, and Jesus takes our prayer to the Father, and all this ability to speak is administrated by the Holy Spirit.

As for the change of names from the OT to the NT, there has been no change in names, only translation issues from the Hebrew.... here we see the same names in the OT written in the NT even in Revelation.... which was originally written in Hebrew....

Re 5:1 ¶ And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside,

Only a scroll was held in the right hand written front and back, was Hebrew, Greek is written in the left hand, (as I believe)

Now for the OT names in the Hebrew....

Re 4:8 ¶ And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Notice the OT Hebrew names here : Lord YHWH, God Elohiym Almighty Shadday

The Family of God is worshipped as one, yet all three persons of the Godhead are here receiving worship, as "holy" holy "holy" implies.... most see this as a single descriptive of GOD which it is, but it is also a description of three heavenly powers the Father (Elohiym) the Son (YHWH) and the Holy Spirit (Shadday)....

But as our administrators say keep it simple and pray in faith...what is the manner we should pray? How do we become saved ? What steps cause salvation ? Does the Bible have a single passage that lists the correct way to be saved found in a chronological listed order ?

Yes it does in the Boob of Yeshua or Hosea both are variations of spelling for the Book of Jesus, which tells the story in poetry of Jesus coming to earth to marry adulterers like you and me to be saved, and in the end of the book is found the steps to Jesus...beginning in Hosea 14:1,2....

My website explains further http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-776.htm

Shalom

 

[JLB]

Now for the OT names in the Hebrew....

Re 4:8 ¶ And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Notice the OT Hebrew names here : Lord YHWH, God Elohiym Almighty Shadday

The Family of God is worshipped as one, yet all three persons of the Godhead are here receiving worship, as "holy" holy "holy" implies.... most see this as a single descriptive of GOD which it is, but it is also a description of three heavenly powers the Father (Elohiym) the Son (YHWH) and the Holy Spirit (Shadday)....

I agree!

“You are worthy, O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For You created all things,[Jesus] And by Your will they exist [The Father] and were created.[The Holy Spirit]”


JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

I would pray to Jesus for salvation, for only Jesus died to set the sinner from death, and Jesus takes our prayer to the Father, and all this ability to speak is administrated by the Holy Spirit.

I don't think that's what Jesus said.

Jhn 16:23 (RSV) In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask anything of the Father, he will give it to you in my name.

Jhn 16:26-27 (RSV) In that day you will ask in my name; and I do not say to you that I shall pray the Father for you; for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from the Father.


iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

You've got it backwards. You need to be concerned that The Word of God knows your name.

Jhn 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Sheep don't know the name of their Shepherd, they know His voice.

Well said! Me likie!

iakov the fool

 

[jocor]

Re 5:1 ¶ And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside,

Only a scroll was held in the right hand written front and back, was Hebrew, Greek is written in the left hand, (as I believe)

Now for the OT names in the Hebrew....

Re 4:8 ¶ And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Notice the OT Hebrew names here : Lord YHWH, God Elohiym Almighty Shadday

The Family of God is worshipped as one, yet all three persons of the Godhead are here receiving worship, as "holy" holy "holy" implies.... most see this as a single descriptive of GOD which it is, but it is also a description of three heavenly powers the Father (Elohiym) the Son (YHWH) and the Holy Spirit (Shadday)....

The only one receiving worship in Rev 4:8 is the one sitting on the throne.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Rev 4:9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
​

The Creator is being worshiped. The English translations call Him "Lord God Almighty". In Hebrew, this would be "YHWH El Shadday" (see Gen 17:1). The "Lord" of Rev 4:11 is "YHWH". How do we know that?

Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne (YHWH) a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David (Yeshua), hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb (Yeshua) as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he (Yeshua) came and took the book out of the right hand of him (YHWH) that sat upon the throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he (Yeshua) had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God (YHWH) by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God (YHWH) kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. (Parenthesis mine)​

Yeshua took the book out of the hand of YHWH (the Creator). He is then given glory for redeeming us to YHWH our God and for making us kings and priests unto YHWH our God. To read into Rev 4:8 anyone other than YHWH (Yeshua's Father and God) is a grievous mistake.

 

[Eugene]

The only one receiving worship in Rev 4:8 is the one sitting on the throne.

Somewhere in all this mix of scripture, do you see Jesus described below. I will show certain portions in bold to bring it out.

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his (Whose blood) blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him (Jesus) should all fulness dwell;

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him (Jesus); and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him (Jesus), and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him (Jesus) not.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. (From when?)
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven (Another throne), and one (Jesus gets His own throne) sat on the throne.
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. (Jesus)
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, (Jesus in Jn 1:10, Col 1:16) and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Please tell me who the twenty-four elders and four beasts or living ones of Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6 are? Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb (Jesus of Rev 4:8)

 

[Tracy J. Harper]

At the present time there 28 known MSS of Hebrew Matthew copied by Jewish scribes in the Middle Ages. One of them has been preserved in the British Museum Library. I first heard about them was from Nehemia Gordon who is a Karaite Jew.

I know little about this. But I want to know whether there are some relationships between God's work and God's name.

 

[Tracy J. Harper]

Jocor, you do realize that regardless whichever bible translates original languages to another, their effort only produces what they believe to be the closest sounds, or letters of the new language don’t you? Some of this reminds me of straining out gnats and camels. Somehow I just believe My Father knows Who I have believed on.

trans·lit·er·ate
transˈlitəˌrāt,tranz-
verb
past tense: transliterated; past participle: transliterated

1. write or print (a letter or word) using the closest corresponding letters of a different alphabet or language.

"names from one language are often transliterated into another"

ACTS 2:38 Excerpt in many translations:
ASV the name of Jesus Christ
BBE the name of Jesus Christ
CBE the name of Jesus Christ
CJB the authority of Yeshua the Messiah
CSB Jesus the Messiah
DBY the name of Jesus Christ
ESV the name of Jesus Christ
GNT the name of Jesus Christ
GNTA the name of Jesus Christ
GW the name of Jesus Christ
HNV the name of Yeshua the Messiah
JUB the name of Jesus Christ
KJV the name of Jesus Christ
NAS the name of Jesus Christ
NIV the name of Jesus Christ
NKJV the name of Jesus Christ
NLT the name of Jesus Christ
NRV the name of Jesus Christ
OJB in the Shem of Yehoshua HaMoshiach
RHE the name of Jesus Christ
RSV the name of Jesus Christ

Yes, names from one language are often transliterated into another. But they are all God's name.

 

[Jim Parker]

The only one receiving worship in Rev 4:8 is the one sitting on the throne.

You didn't look far enough; there's more! (JUst like in the infomercials, "But wait!! There's MORE!! )

Rev 5:11-14 (RSV) Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!"

And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, "To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!"

And the four living creatures said, "Amen!" and the elders fell down and worshiped.


Rev 7:9-12 (RSV) After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!

And all the angels stood round the throne and round the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God for ever and ever! Amen."

So both YHWH and the Lamb receive worship.

And who is the lamb who also receives worship?

John 1:26-29 (RSV) John answered them, "I baptize with water; but among you stands one whom you do not know, even he who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie." This took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Jesus regularly received and accepted worship.

Mat 2:10-11 (RSV) When they (the magi) saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy; and going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. (Jesus) Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

Mat 8:2 (RSV) And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him,(Jesus) saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.”

Mat 14:33 (RSV) And those in the boat worshiped him, (Jesus) saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."

Mat 28:9 (RSV) And behold, Jesus met them and said, "Hail!" And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

Mat 28:16-17 (RSV) Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted.

Mar 5:6 (RSV) And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped him;

Jhn 9:37-38 (RSV) Jesus said to him, "You have seen him, and it is he who speaks to you."
He said, "Lord, I believe"; and he worshiped him.

And, of course, it is only God who is to be worshiped.

Exo 20:2-3 (RSV) "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me."

Exo 34:14 (RSV) for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God

Rev 19:9-10(RSV) And the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These are true words of God." Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus. Worship God." For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

iakov the fool

 

[jocor]

Somewhere in all this mix of scripture, do you see Jesus described below. I will show certain portions in bold to bring it out.

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his (Whose blood) blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him (Jesus) should all fulness dwell;

Please tell me why the Greek word "en" was translated "by" in the beginning of verse 16, but was translated "in" in verse 19? I would also like to know why the Greek word "di" was translated "by" at the end of verse 16 even though the Greek word "en" was translated "by" at the beginning of verse 16.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him (Jesus); and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him (Jesus), and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him (Jesus) not.

Please tell me why "Jesus" is being read into this text and why our English Bibles that preceded the KJV did NOT read "Jesus" into the text? They translated verse 3 as "all things were made by it" because they understood the logos to be a thing, not a person.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

Why is it that you took verse 8 out of context and put it together with 12-13? In verse 8, the Father is speaking. Verses 12-13 refer to Yeshua.

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. (From when?)

From when John received the vision.

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven (Another throne), and one (Jesus gets His own throne) sat on the throne.

This is not "another throne". It is YHWH's only throne. At no time did Yeshua sit on the throne. He stood before the one who sat on the throne (Rev 5:6-7). You will learn much more when you stop reading whatever you want into the text.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. (Jesus)
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, (Jesus in Jn 1:10, Col 1:16) and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

I have already proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that verses 8 & 11 do NOT refer to Yeshua. The fact that the phrase "which was, and is, and is to come" is used of the Father in Rev 1:8, coupled with the fact that "Lord God Almighty" refers to YHWH El Shadday (Yeshua's Father), proves the passage has nothing to do with the Son.

Please tell me who the twenty-four elders and four beasts or living ones of Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6 are? Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb (Jesus of Rev 4:8)

I believe the 24 elders are resurrected OT saints. They were among those who resurrected shortly after Yeshua and were seen by many in Jerusalem (Mt 27:52-53). It is not clear who the four beasts are, but they were redeemed by the blood of the Lamb as well (Rev 5:9).

 

[jocor]

I know little about this. But I want to know whether there are some relationships between God's work and God's name.

I believe His name means "I will be". That is part of His work as well. He will be whatever His people need Him to be (provider, protector, Elohim, teacher, etc.).

 

[jocor]

You didn't look far enough; there's more! (JUst like in the infomercials, "But wait!! There's MORE!! )

Rev 5:11-14 (RSV) Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!"

And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, "To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!"

And the four living creatures said, "Amen!" and the elders fell down and worshiped.

Once again, this passage shows the Lamb is NOT the one sitting on the throne.

Rev 7:9-12 (RSV) After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!

And all the angels stood round the throne and round the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God for ever and ever! Amen."

So both YHWH and the Lamb receive worship.

And who is the lamb who also receives worship?

John 1:26-29 (RSV) John answered them, "I baptize with water; but among you stands one whom you do not know, even he who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie." This took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Jesus regularly received and accepted worship.

Mat 2:10-11 (RSV) When they (the magi) saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy; and going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. (Jesus) Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

Mat 8:2 (RSV) And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him,(Jesus) saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.”

Mat 14:33 (RSV) And those in the boat worshiped him, (Jesus) saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."

Mat 28:9 (RSV) And behold, Jesus met them and said, "Hail!" And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

Mat 28:16-17 (RSV) Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted.

Mar 5:6 (RSV) And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped him;

Jhn 9:37-38 (RSV) Jesus said to him, "You have seen him, and it is he who speaks to you."
He said, "Lord, I believe"; and he worshiped him.

I have no problem with Yeshua receiving "worship" because I know the Greek word "proskuneō" can refer to bowing down and reverencing man as in Acts 10:25, Rev 3:9. The same word was used in Gen 23:7, 12; 27:29, etc - (LXX) referring to bowing down to men. It was used in the Septuagint (LXX) for the Hebrew word "shachah". (see below).

And, of course, it is only God who is to be worshiped.

Exo 20:2-3 (RSV) "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me."

Exo 34:14 (RSV) for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God

The word "worship" in verse 14 is "shachah". In this context, only YHWH is to be worshiped. However, in the context of the verses I cited above, men can be worshiped, but in a different sense of the word.

Rev 19:9-10(RSV) And the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These are true words of God." Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus. Worship God." For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The angel evidently felt that Peter's "worship" went beyond that which was allowable to someone other than YHWH.

 

[JLB]

I have already proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that verses 8 & 11 do NOT refer to Yeshua. The fact that the phrase "which was, and is, and is to come" is used of the Father in Rev 1:8, coupled with the fact that "Lord God Almighty" refers to YHWH El Shadday (Yeshua's Father), proves the passage has nothing to do with the Son.

You have been shown over and over the scriptures that prove beyond a doubt that Jesus is YHWH, the Lord God who is coming with His saints.



6 Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”
8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

• Jesus Christ is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last, which are titles of the Lord God.

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

• The Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel, which verse 16 reveals it was Jesus who sent His angel...

And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place. Behold, I am coming quickly!

Jesus, not God the Father is coming quickly. Jesus is the Lord God who is coming with His saints.

Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You. Zechariah 14:5


Jesus is our great God and Savior....looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Titus 2:13

For I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; Isaiah 43:3

• Peter teaches it was the Spirit of Christ in Isaiah speaking these words... 1 Peter 1:10-11

I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;


Jesus is YHWH, our Savior, the Lord God of Israel. The way to salvation is to confess Jesus Christ as Lord, YHWH.

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:9-13

• Jesus Christ is the Lord of lords.

For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe. Deuteronomy 10:17


He is the Lord God, who will return with His saints. Zechariah 14:5


JLB

 

[Eugene]

Please tell me why "Jesus" is being read into this text and why our English Bibles that preceded the KJV did NOT read "Jesus" into the text? They translated verse 3 as "all things were made by it" because they understood the logos to be a thing, not a person.

Dear Jocor, I really have no idea, but I believe Jesus to be God with us of Mat 1:23 who made Himself of no reputation according to
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.

You can continue to believe as you want, but I reckon I'll just believe my Savior is also my God incarnate.
Isa 40:3 The voice of him (John the Baptist) that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD (YHWH transliterated as Jehovah), make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Mat 3:3.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

 

[Eugene]

Please tell me why "Jesus" is being read into this text and why our English Bibles that preceded the KJV did NOT read "Jesus" into the text? They translated verse 3 as "all things were made by it" because they understood the logos to be a thing, not a person.

Dear Jocor, I really have no idea, but I believe Jesus to be God with us of Mat 1:23 who made Himself of no reputation according to
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.

You can continue to believe as you want, but I reckon I'll just believe my Savior is also my God incarnate.
Isa 40:3 The voice of him (John the Baptist) that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD (YHWH transliterated as Jehovah), make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Mat 3:3.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

 

[Jim Parker]

Please tell me why "Jesus" is being read into this text and why our English Bibles that preceded the KJV did NOT read "Jesus" into the text? They translated verse 3 as "all things were made by it" because they understood the logos to be a thing, not a person.

Earlier versions were written in Early Modern English. (1500-1800) The language was not a precise and settled then as it is now. To base such a critical theological issue on such imprecise language is not good scholarship.

In John 1:1 the Logos is identified as being God. If the Logos is an "it" then God is an "it" as well.

The best examples of the Greek NT read at John 1:3
πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν ὃ γέγονεν
all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made, (RSV)

The word "αὐτοῦ" is translated "him" in the KJV, NKJV, NLT, NIV, ESV, HCSB, NASB, NET, ASV, YLT, DBY, WEB, HNV. These translators had better source material than the translators of the Tyndale Bible and the Great Bible and are translating it into modern English rather than Middle English or Early Modern English, neither of which languages are spoken today. It is those obsolete languages to which you refer as used to translate "it" what today is better translated "him" in precise, Modern English.

Are you suggesting that all the translators of all those Bibles are all wrong?

Are you suggesting that the Counsel of Nicaea was in error in their conclusion that the Logos is a person?

Are you suggesting that the teaching of the Trinity, a core teaching of the Christian faith, is wrong?

And are you basing that on the lack of precision inherent in the English language before the 1800a?

Please tell me that your answer is "No" to all those questions.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Once again, this passage shows the Lamb is NOT the one sitting on the throne.


I have no problem with Yeshua receiving "worship" because I know the Greek word "proskuneō" can refer to bowing down and reverencing man as in Acts 10:25, Rev 3:9. The same word was used in Gen 23:7, 12; 27:29, etc - (LXX) referring to bowing down to men. It was used in the Septuagint (LXX) for the Hebrew word "shachah". (see below).


The word "worship" in verse 14 is "shachah". In this context, only YHWH is to be worshiped. However, in the context of the verses I cited above, men can be worshiped, but in a different sense of the word.


The angel evidently felt that Peter's "worship" went beyond that which was allowable to someone other than YHWH.

So the only problem you have is imagining that you know how to translate the Koine Greek better than all the experts.

OK. Thanks for the clarification.