Why belief in Jesus' deity is essential for salvation...

[Imagican]

Av,

I appreciate your post. As I stated previous; I 'like' you. I don't just love you as we are commanded 'as my neighbor', I recognize in you MUCH wisdom and understanding. Not that I 'agree' with everything that you offer, (that is a difficult thing for ANY two people to DO), but I DO recognize a sincerity that does NOT contain ONLY 'self'. That IS refreshing. And I have witnessed your ability to 'maintain' without dilution.

Av, I am ONLY able to observe that which I experience. My BIGGEST challenge has been to 'learn to love my neighbor AS myself'. But I have been to MANY 'so called' churches and what I find there is WEAK and downright sloven piety in the 'guise' of Christianity. People INSISTING that The Spirit is leading them but NO fruit other than what appeases 'themselves'. A 'greasy' kind of 'let's ACT like we are Christians, rather than follow in the footsteps of Christ.

Av, unlike Solo, I 'believe' that ANYONE that has 'read' the Word is WELL aware that what I offer is straight from the KJV REGARDLESS of whether or not I offer quotes from it.

I have attempted to alter NOTHING. I have NOT ONLY read the KJV, I have done MANY MANY specific STUDIES in this book. Begging for understanding and guidance. There was a 'time' that this was given SO FREELY that I could hardly 'keep up'. Now it comes in bits and spurts. But during that time I became INTIMATE with God and His Son.

I have met FEW that have experienced anything even remotely similar. Most that I have met have simply been 'going to church' for a 'time' and have 'picked up' bits and pieces from their weekly, (also to be confused with weakly), sermons yet have almost NO understanding of even the BASICS that were laid down by Christ and His apostles. Their knowledge and understanding seems to based MORE on 'MOVIES" that they have 'seen' of Jesus than ANYTHING factual contained within The Word. And their PASTORS seem PERFECTLY PLEASED for them to BE this way.

Once again, let me offer that I have NOTHING against 'others' reading WHATEVER they will. I personally find that it is MUCH more advantageous to avoid that which is NOT accurate and simply STICK to that which I KNOW to be TRUTH.

Satan HAS dominion OVER this world, (and MOST of it's inhabitants). He needs little 'personal intervention' to offer what MOST seek. His demons ARE rampant and NUMEROUS. So MUCH so that most have been 'led' to ignore their VERY EXISTENCE. We MUST be aware and ON GUARD 'every' minute lest we FALL to their temptations or influence.

There is LITTLE that I, (or you), CAN do to 'protect' ourselves OTHER THAN rely on the power of God, (through His Son), to PROTECT US.

Satan IS able to mimic God Himself. To those that are UNABLE to 'recognize' him in his MANY guises, they are choosing to worshiping HIM in the 'guise' of that which IS Holy. I can't HELP but recognize this when exposed to it. Whether it be in 'churches', here on the forums, or in daily life out among those of this WORLD. Do you HONESTLY 'think' that I am 'making this stuff UP'?

I come here NOT to appease the appetites of men. To the CONTRARY. I WILL be 'an enemy' to ALL that live 'for this world'. My words will sear their very souls so deeply that their 'hate' of my words will become apparent in their replies. But that IS what we ARE here for. Our 'witness' is NOT only our 'belief' but TRUTH in God as offered BY HIS SON. Our testimony is WEAK, (at best), if not conformed to the TRUTH.

I have listened to BENNY Hindi and watched as tens of thousands heap their praises upon HIM. Ignoring 'truth' and God in order to have their 'itching ears' appeased.

Billy Graham that ONCE started out with the passion allowed this WORLD to water down his understanding, thus, turning his testimony and witness into 'just another WEAK sermon rather than a 'transmission' of God's Word to His people.

Cynical? NO DOUBT. But NOT of God, His Son, the apostles, The Spirit. But of this WORLD and what it FOLLOWS. And Av, WHERE do you suppose that this 'understanding CAME FROM'? Do you HONESTLY even 'think' that Satan would REVEAL himself in SUCH A MANNER? That he would purposely ALLOW ANYONE to 'expose' his methods of deception?

No, but he WOULD AND WILL attempt to discredit my offerings in the hopes that MOST will simply say to themselves; "This guys a NUT''. SEE, he doesn't even 'BELIEVE' like the REST of us. His words are SO different than what we are USE to that HE MUST BE WRONG''. It's NOT DIFFERENT NOW than it WAS at the time of Christ. It's NO DIFFERENT NOW than it was during the time of MOSES. People are MORE concerned with THEMSELVES than ANYTHING TO DO with God OR His Son.

Choosing instead to worship IDOLS and STATUES and ANYTHING other than God OR His Son. Creating and building up FALSE gods and placing them IN THE PLACE of OUR FATHER AND HIS SON.

'Forty days to a purpose driven..................' NOT ONLY would I not 'purchase' a book such as this, but, you COULDN'T PAY me to expose myself to such. A little SECRET Av, when you see the multitudes FLOCKING in ANY particular direction, FLEE my friend. That is the BEST advice that I can offer ANYONE seeking the Father and His Son. FLEE. Don't only 'turn away' but RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN. For Satan is the FATHER of lies. We understand but the rudiments of 'falsehood'. This entity CREATED them and uses them in ways that we cannot EVEN COMPREHEND.

I am NOT here to supply milk to those that need such. I am not here to 'pat each other on the back' for how 'righteous' we are. I am here to let any and everyone that I am able, KNOW that there IS TRUTH that transcends this LAODICEAN AGE in which we LIVE. That there is MUCH more to 'following Christ' than throwing a 'couple of bucks in the plate' and living our lives devoted to SELF. And there IS TRUTH OUT THERE that IS different than that which the 'churches' have led SO MANY people to BELIEVE.

And when 'these and theirs' are STUCK in 'their place'; scrambling and fighting for RELEASE, NOT A SINGLE WORD that they were offered or BELIEVED will diminish their TORMENT ONE BIT. For they were GIVEN the opportunity to RECEIVE LIFE and chose darkness instead. Hardened their hearts IN FACT to the point that they weren't even able to 'COME TO THE TRUTH' when offered it FREELY. Choosing instead, to DIE like their FATHER. To suffer the SAME fate as the one they worship.

Your compassion is evident Av. I accept your offering and can ONLY HOPE that at least SOME of what 'I' offer is able to be of 'benefit' in your understanding as well.

I KNOW that The Spirit RECOGNIZES The Spirit for that IS what The Church IS. The Body. And there IS recognition OF IT"S PARTS. So, for those that would 'accuse me' of FOLLOWING Satan in the words that I offer, BEWARE, my brothers. That kind of FALSE accusation can ONLY come from ONE PLACE. Just LIKE those that accused Christ of being 'the son of Satan', the WORLD is LED in such beliefs for A PURPOSE. For Satan does NOT 'want to BE Satan'; BUT God Himself. HE wants to be THE ONE WORSHIPED. And HE DOES have dominion over this PLANET and MOST of the souls that reside here.

Folks, there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD. No amount of words or effort can change this EXCEPT in the the 'hearts' of those willing to listen to 'something ELSE'. Find His Son and HE IS ABLE to lead one TO THE FATHER. But 'creating' one's OWN GODS, (or allowing them to be created), will NOT fulfill ANYTHING other than carnal desires of a heart DEVOTED to this 'world'.

MEC

 

[AVBunyan]

Av,

I appreciate your post. As I stated previous; I 'like' you. I don't just love you as we are commanded 'as my neighbor', I recognize in you MUCH wisdom and understanding. Not that I 'agree' with everything that you offer, (that is a difficult thing for ANY two people to DO), but I DO recognize a sincerity that does NOT contain ONLY 'self'. That IS refreshing. And I have witnessed your ability to 'maintain' without dilution.

Thanks for the kind words of which I do not deserve.

Mec - Allow me to point out that those Puritans and Separatists writers of this era (1600-1850) saturated themselves with the scriptures and prayer - that is why they were such prolific and rich writers. Please give them a read - these were true men of God unlike the majority of today which we both agree here. Here are just 2 links if you are interested...
http://av1611bible.com/links/puritansites.htm
http://av1611bible.com/saints.htm

BTW - my preacher still gets through the NT at least once a week - been doing this for over 30 years. You know where he got this from? From the men reads - the old writers of the era I'm referring to.

May God point you to a sound King James local church where you can be used.

God bless

 

[Imagican]

Av,

Thank you for the encouraging words.

I WILL 'check out' the links that you offered. Perhaps I HAVE become a 'bit' cynical. I certainly DON'T MEAN to be. It's just that what I have observed in the churches that I have attended and the pastors that I have been exposed to, leave MUCH to be 'desired'. I would end this here, but for Solo's sake, I don't believe that I have used ENOUGH 'I's' yet. So, I will leave you with some words that I have always found I am able to gain comfort in;

Good night and sweet dreams Solo.

Blessings guys,

MEC

 

[Veritas]

Imagican wrote:
It's just that what I have observed in the churches that I have attended and the pastors that I have been exposed to, leave MUCH to be 'desired'.

Blessings guys,

Blessings to you too Imagican,

I pray that you may able to find a church. It is tough sometimes; I've gone through some church hunting and sometimes get down about shortcomings I see, but Christ does want you, and me, and all of us to be a part of His body.

For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us. Romans 12:4-6

And if we end up being around brethren with MUCH to be desired... what a wonderful place to learn how to love. ;)

 

[Imagican]

Av,

I visted the sites that you offered.

Believe it or NOT, I have PREVOUSLY read MOST of what was contained within them. I possess some of the actual 'books' that were offered here.

I 'think' you misunderstood me in my previous post.

I HAVE read MANY works by MANY different formers of 'denominations'. I wasn't saying that the ONLY thing that I have EVER read was The Holy Bible. If there was confusion, let me clarify;

Pretty MUCH the ONLY thing that I read NOW is the Holy Bible. I did NOT come to my present understanding TOTALLY uninformed of the 'works' of others. I simply dismissed MOST of their writtings as the WORKS of 'man'.

I would NEVER say that there haven't been men inspired or that their 'works' are USELESS. But what I WOULD say is that EACH individuals relationship or SALVATION is NOT dependant upon some 'other person' TELLING them to 'follow THEM'.

We ARE to offer testimony and witness of Jesus Christ. That is HOW we ARE to 'spread The Word'. But I can POINT OUT many errors, (from MY perspective), in MANY of the 'works' of MEN. Wesley, Calvin, White, Russell, etc...... OF COURSE, EACH of these had certain 'things' that they understood, but Av, isn't it OBVIOUS that since EACH offered 'something DIFFERENT', that they could NOT ALL BE correct.

Either there IS predestination or there ISN'T. Either there IS a physical NEED for Baptizm in water or there ISN'T. Either there IS OSAS or there ISN'T. Each of these had their OWN personal understanding of these issues and 'pretty MUCH', each had a DIFFERENT view.

I have chosen to abandon a 'search' for WHO is RIGHT, but INSTEAD focus on what MANY would consider a 'personal interpretetion'. I don't feel that this is what I attempt, but there ARE MANY others that would INSIST that this is EXACTLY what I 'follow'.

In my defense let me offer this; I BELIEVE that God IS ABLE and WILLING to REVEAL that which He desires for ANY INDIVIDUAL. 'MY' relationship with God is TOTALLY between Him and myself. There is NOTHING that ANYONE can do or NOT do that can alter 'my' relationship ONE TIT.

I DO NOT have a COMPLETE understanding of EVERYTHING contained within The Word. I NEVER will so long as I remain in this vessel.

But I can tell you THIS: Regardless of what I may be accused of, I DO have a 'perfect understanding' of WHAT we ARE to LEARN. Not that I have learned it ALL yet, but WHAT we ARE to learn I have perfect understanding OF. And THIS, I have found, is LACKING in MOST that 'think' that they 'have a clue'. This becomes MORE AND MORE obvious as I 'hear' MORE AND MORE of what 'others' have to offer.

God IS Love. His Son is the personification OF THIS Love. The example was NOT simply an 'appearance' of God in the flesh. The example was His Son in the flesh, DYING an atrocious DEATH so that we would NOT have to experience such. 'The EXAMPLE': Love. Not what one can do for US, but what WE CAN DO FOR OTHERS. GIVING, not TAKING. Being willing to lay one's life down NOT for one that AGREES with their 'theology', BUT FOR ANY MAN. For Christ made it perfectly CLEAR that to LOVE one's family or friend is what EVERY MAN does. But to LOVE ONE'S enemy IS the ULTIMATE UNDERSTANDING. For we ARE ALL BROTHERS and it is OUR ENEMY, (usually those that do NOT know God), NEED our love MUCH MORE than those that DO KNOW GOD.

I have encountered MANY here and in other places that TOTALLY IGNORE this for the SAKE of their 'religion'. And MOST choose 'denominations' FOR their 'religion'. Choosing to SEPARATE themselves for the sake of a 'belief' when we have been COMMANDED to LOVE REGARDLESS.

There WERE a 'few' persons that I was NOT familiar with and when I have the time I will CERTAINLY see what they have to say. One NEVER knows WHERE or HOW God will 'choose' to reveal that which He WiSHES for one to KNOW.

But I am STILL of the 'belief' that we NEED beware of HOW we allow 'others' to influence us. For Satan IS a 'slickster'. NEVER have people followed LIES from the START. Satan USUALLY uses 99 percent TRUTH and just a single LIE can alter THE TRUTH ENTIRELY.

Thanks again for the information.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Wow.

I know everything I'm supposed to know... :P

You haven't a clue on what the word "humility" means, do you. And you claim to "know" everything you are supposed to know???

Do yourself a favor and stop posting such dribble. You only make yourself look more ridiculous. You aren't going to convince anyone here that you "know everything I'm supposed to know" by such proclamations.

fran,

It figures that it would be U that would NOT understand what I stated.

Let me offer in a 'more SIMPLE way';

I DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING. I DO KNOW THAT WHICH I AM TO LEARN.

Even simpler; Let's say YOU wanted to BE a DOCTOR. While you DON'T know EVERYTHING that is NEEDED to get your DEGREE, YOU DO, however KNOW what YOU NEED TO LEARN in order to GET IT.

I do NOT appreciate your innuendo and the ALTERING of what I state. If you 'disagree' with something that I state, PLEASE, by ALL MEANS, point out what it IS that you disagree with. But your ridicule and innuendo is completely unnecessary.

I DO believe that there MUST be 'someone' out there that UNDERSTOOD what I stated. And I believe that I followed up the statement to which you refer with an EXPLANATION of what I had stated.

Humility has little to do with what I stated. It took me a number of years to LEARN what it IS that I AM to learn. So I didn't STATE that I HAVE learned what it IS that I AM to learn, what I stated is that I KNOW what it IS that I am to learn. Get it?

Probably NOT. For to follow a faith that DEMANDS that you SIMPLY BLINDLY FOLLOW what you are TOLD, it probably IS hard to comprehend what I stated. For there is most likely MUCH that you have been TOLD to 'believe' that you really DON'T understand.

But the TRUTH of what I NEED to learn HAS been REVEALED to ME. I have a 'basic CONCEPT' of this knowledge, but have gotten NO WHERE NEAR; ALL the details. Given time and guidance, I am quite sure that the understanding that I will have this time next year WILL be 'greater' than what it IS at the present, God willing.

So continue to 'blindly' follow 'man-made' tradition and a 'man-made' church and while you are doing this, I will be following God through His Spirit as MY guide. Thanking Him continually for the offering of His Son. AND thanking the Son for the sacrifice that He offered.

MEC

 

[Guest]

MEC - I have read with great intent your posts. And while I might not take the same approach others have taken - I must say - I am surprised at your posts.

In a majority of your posts you do not offer Biblical support for your arguements.

One can only wonder if you are leaning on your own understanding.

 

[francisdesales]

I do NOT appreciate your innuendo and the ALTERING of what I state. If you 'disagree' with something that I state, PLEASE, by ALL MEANS, point out what it IS that you disagree with. But your ridicule and innuendo is completely unnecessary.

:roll:

I HAVE stated my disagreement over and over. I HAVE provided Scriptural proof that shows your understanding as wrong. And all you have to offer is "I cannot be wrong?" Give me a break. Your stance deserves ridicule because it is based ENTIRELY on your own personal understanding. What makes it ridiculous is that you are too stubborn to realize your mistakes...

This is not about Catholicism or any other Protestant denomination. People, Catholics and Protestants ALIKE are gathering together to tell you that you are WRONG!


...But wait - it's Imagican. You know, he said he can't be wrong - so let's all change hundreds and hundreds of years of Christian belief because the "spirit" has revealed something NEW to Imagican...

:roll:

It sounds more ridiculous the more I write about it...

 

[Imagican]

alone,

Revelation 3:20-21

20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Since MOST would RATHER 'attack' what I offer than discuss The TRUTH, it seems almost UNNECESSARY at times to offer ANYTHING other than 'defense'.

What say YOU of what is offered in the scripture quoted ABOVE?

This states that those that overcome AS CHRIST overcame; Christ will ALLOW them to sit with HIM in HIS throne, JUST as His Father allowed HIM to Sit at HIS THRONE. If The Father IS God, then this PLAINLY offers that Christ is NOT. For Christ offers a pure and PLAIN distinction between HIS THRONE and that of The Father.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Oh, and alone,

Here is a quote from an earlier post in this thread:

I have stated on NUMEROUS occasions in past posts that ANYONE that doubts what I offer NEED BUT ASK and I WILL SUPPLY scripture to 'back up' ANYTHING that I state as BIBLICAL TRUTH. And Solo, you particularly would KNOW that I offer NOTHING, (other than stated opinion), that I CANNOT 'back up' with scripture. So your attempt to discredit my offerings for a lack of posting relevant scripture is LAME at best. A 'feeble attempt' to INDICATE that there is NOT scripture simply because I don't OFFER IT. But PLEASE, by ALL MEANS, ANYTIME I make an offering and you 'believe' that it is UN-BIBLICAL, just ask, my brother, and I WILL offer what you seek.


blessings,

MEC

 

[AVBunyan]

I have stated on NUMEROUS occasions in past posts that ANYONE that doubts what I offer NEED BUT ASK and I WILL SUPPLY scripture to 'back up' ANYTHING that I state as BIBLICAL TRUTH. MEC

Ok then...Based upon the English definition below....

Manifest - Plain, open, clearly visible to the eye or obvious to the understanding; apparent; not obscure or difficult to be seen or understood.

And...
1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,

How do view the above?

I read it as God was clearly visible to the eye.

 

[Solo]

Again you don't listen. I told you not to misrepresent what Paul said but you do it anyway because it is in your nature to do it and it makes sense to you. Paul did not say, 'Jesus is God'. He said, "no one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit". The word 'Lord' when it is not all capital letters, means king. Paul is not referring to the Father in this case. He is referring to the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the King of kings.

The Greek Word κυριος transliterated KURIOS is translated Lord 667 times, lord 54 times, master 11 times, sir 6 times, Sir 6 times, and miscellaneous 4 times. The Greek word βασιλεα transliterated Basileus is translated king 82 times, King (of Jews) 21 times, King (God or Christ) 11 times, and King (of Israel) 4 times. The Scriptures are clear when they make a determination of meaning King or Lord. The Greek word κυριος is used throughout the Septuagint Old Testament in reference to LORD JEHOVAH GOD.

Note in the following passages where the LORD JEHOVAH GOD is called KING, and JESUS CHRIST IS CALLED KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. Revelation 15:3

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. Revelation 17:14

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:16

To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Hebrews 7:2

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. 1Timothy 1:17

Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 1Timothy 6:15

Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt. John 12:15

Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest Luke 19:38

And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King. Luke 23:2

Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Matthew 5:35

Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass. Matthew 21:5

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40

What he is saying here is related to what he said earlier in his letter about the Spirit of God knowing the thoughts of God. The Holy Spirit knows the thoughts of God and he gives us the thoughts of God so that we can say Jesus is Lord.

How, you ask?

It has to do with having 'the mind' of Christ and being of the same mind as Christ. In this respect we are sons of the light; so that as the Father speaks, we speak likewise, proclaiming his Son Lord.

Those who are born of God have the HOLY SPIRIT dwelling within them. Those who are not born of God do not understand the spiritual things. Those who cannot confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD JEHOVAH GOD do not have the Spirit of God, but instead have the spirit of antichrist.

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:3

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 2 John 1:7

It is apparent that you have not read the truth contained in the following post, so I will post it again so that you may have the opportunity to repent and become born of God so that you and I can be brothers in Christ Jesus. I will continue to pray for your salvation as many on this forum are doing.

The following is for the believers on this forum and those that are becoming saved as the angels minister to them:

The Hebrew word יהוה transliterated JEHOVAH is translated LORD, GOD, and JEHOVAH in the English Old Testament and is translated κυριος and θεος in the Greek Septuagint Old Testament. The Greek word κυριος is translated as LORD in the English New Testament.

The Hebrew word יהוה transliterated JEHOVAH is found in the Old Testament of the King James Version Bible and is translated LORD 6510 times, GOD 4 times, and JEHOVAH 4 times.

The Hebrew word אדני transliterated ADONAI is translated Lord 431 times, lord 2 times, and God 1 time. The Hebrew word אדני transliterated ELOHIM is translated God 2346 times where used in reference to JEHOVAH.

Whenever the word LORD is found in the King James Version Old Testament, it is the word יהוה transliterated JEHOVAH. As stated, this occurs 6518 times in the KJV Old Testament.

Once a person understands the usage of the name of the LORD JEHOVAH GOD, one can read the Old Testament with an understanding of who the prophets are prophsying about, and who created the creation, etc. etc.

The Septuagint offers the LORD JEHOVAH GOD in the Greek as follows:

And the LORD God (κυριος ο θεος - LORD GOD)(יהוה אלהים - JEHOVAH ELOHIM) planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. Genesis 2:8

And the LORD God (κυριος ο θεος - LORD GOD)(יהוה אלהים - JEHOVAH ELOHIM) took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. Genesis 2:15

Now we will investigate two sections of Scripture that speak of the LORD JEHOVAH GOD in reference the LORD JESUS CHRIST from the prophets.

First, let us examine Zechariah's prophesy recorded in Zechariah 14. In this section of Scripture, I will include the Hebrew, Greek, and English translation for the words referencing the LORD JEHOVAH GOD.

• 
  1 Behold, the day of the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD) cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD) go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD) my God (Hebrew אלהים = ELOHIM) (Septuagint Greek θεος = GOD) shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD), not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD) shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD), and his name one. Zechariah 14:1-9
  
  Notice that the LORD JEHOVAH GOD is one LORD (vs 9), and this one LORD JEHOVAH GOD shall come with all of the saints with him (vs 5). Paul reveals that JESUS CHRIST is this ONE LORD JEHOVAH GOD COMING WITH ALL HIS SAINTS!!
  
  To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. 1 Thessalonians 3:13

Next, let us look at Isaiah's prophesy concerning the voice that cried in the wilderness preparing the way for the LORD.

• 3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD), make straight in the desert a highway for our God (Hebrew אלהים = ELOHIM) (Septuagint Greek θεος = GOD). 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD), shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD), hath spoken it. Isaiah 40:3
  
  Notice that the prophesy of the voice that is crieth in the wilderness was fulfilled by John the Baptist as recorded in the gospels. John the Baptist was the one crying in the wilderness preparing the way for the LORD JEHOVAH GOD as prophesied by Isaiah.
  
  1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord (Greek κυριος = LORD), make his paths straight. Matthew 3:1-3
  
  1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; 2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord (Greek κυριος = LORD), make his paths straight. Mark 1:1-3
  
  4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord (Greek κυριος = LORD), make his paths straight. 5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God. Luke 3:4-6
  
  19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord (Greek κυριος = LORD), as said the prophet Esaias. John 1:19-23
  
  Once again, it is obvious that JESUS CHRIST is the LORD JEHOVAH GOD whom John the Baptist was preparing the way for as prophesied by Isaiah.

In conclusion, the Scriptures are clear as to the LORD JEHOVAH GOD IS JESUS CHRIST COME IN THE FLESH. Those who cannot confess that the JESUS CHRIST is the LORD JEHOVAH GOD come in the flesh are not of God, and are of the spirit of antichrist.

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:3

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 2 John 1:7

 

[Imagican]

Ok then...Based upon the English definition below....

Manifest - Plain, open, clearly visible to the eye or obvious to the understanding; apparent; not obscure or difficult to be seen or understood.

And...
1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,

How do view the above?

I read it as God was clearly visible to the eye.

Av,

God WAS manifest in the flesh. For IN Christ dwelt the Spirit of God.

It's not that difficult really. Christ stated that; 'he who hath seen ME hath 'seen the father'. Now, I ask YOU; WAS Christ The Father? Of course not. Even those that have accepted 'trinity' won't go THAT far.

What Christ was refering to was the EXAMPLE that He offered. For the example WAS LOVE. God, the Father, IS LOVE. So ANYONE that observed the LOVE offered BY Christ had INDEED 'seen the Father' manifest in Christ through His Father's Spirit.

You offered the TRUE definition of 'manifest' and don't even seem to realise it;

not obscure or difficult to be seen or understood.

Christ being FILLED with the Spirit of His Father made it PERFECTLY clear to ANY that 'understood' WHO the Father WAS that IN Christ DWELT the Father. Now, WHAT IS GOD? I know; LOVE. But other than THAT? HE IS SPIRIT. For it is IN SPIRIT that we were 'created' in the IMAGE OF.

Watch;

I meet someone that is a specialist in a particular 'field of study'. After spending only a 'short' period of time discussing his understanding, I RECOGNIZE that his 'learning' is EXACTLY like that of HIS instructor; WHOM I happen to be relatively CLOSE to. So, after only a short period of time, I can PLAINLY recognize WHO taught him in this field, WITHOUT him even verifying it, I KNOW that he is, or HAS BEEN, a STUDENT of my friend.

In ESSENCE, this man has offered THE MANIFESTATION of his TEACHER in what he has learned and offers others. This analogy could be used in reference to an artiist, an architect, a CRAFTSMAN of almost ANY SORT.

Let's say I was shown a violin made by a man. IMMEDIATELY upon examination, I recognize the method of it's construction being EXACTLY like that of another violin maker; a MASTER violin maker who I KNOW. I ask and SURE ENOUGH, this man LEARNED from the teacher and DUPLICATED that which he was taught. The master had become MANIFEST in the WORK of the STUDENT.

Now, Christ PLAINLY offered that the words that He offered were NOT HIS OWN, but GIVEN HIM by the Father. That it was NOT HIS WILL that He followed, but THAT OF THE FATHER. I believe that the analogy that I have offered is pretty much varified by the scripture at our disposal.

Now, IF i 'so chose' to read 'something' different into the scripture that you offered, it is CERTAINLY possible. BUT, when we have Christ PLAINLY stating that He and the Father are SEPARATE entities and somewhere ELSE He states that He and the Father ARE ONE, we MUST have an UN-perfect understanding to BELIEVE the one statement IN FAVOR of the OTHER. Somehow they BOTH MUST BE RIGHT. And IF so, the UNDERSTANDING MUST FIT.

Christ and the Father ARE ONE. I could go back and offer the myriad scripture that PLAINLY STATE THIS. But what MUST be ignored for understanding to be lost is ALL the OTHER scripture that EXPLAINS what this 'oneness' IS. For we are told that WE and Christ CAN be ONE. That a man and a woman CAN become ONE. That the BODY is ONE. Yet NONE of these 'ones' equals tha SAME '''''''''EXCEPT IN SPIRIT'''''''''.

I hope this offers understanding that can be grasped. I can PLAINLY point out scripture that BACKS ALL THAT I HAVE OFFERED HERE.

MEC

 

[AVBunyan]

I hope this offers understanding that can be grasped. I can PLAINLY point out scripture that BACKS ALL THAT I HAVE OFFERED HERE.
MEC

Mec - appreciate your response but...Sorry - your explanation wasn't convincing - the verse along with the simple definition is though.

You said..."in ESSENCE, this man has offered THE MANIFESTATION of his TEACHER" Sounds good but the man was not the teacher. Based on I Tim. 3:16 Christ was God not just acting in the place of or acting like God would. This is how you "spiritualize" the verse and other verses.

One more time - How is it that those Puritan writers and preachers missed this and you "saw" it? And please don't repeat the "following men" reason.

How about this one...
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Why would Jesus be called.."The mighty God, The everlasting Father"?

You may have commented on this already - if so then just cut and paste - thanks.

BTW - I believe because you do not understand the trinity you feel it is wrong. Just because we don't understand something doesn't make it wrong - Where did you get the idea that you are going to be able to understand it all - We are told to believe it by faith.

 

[Imagican]

Blessings to you too Imagican,

I pray that you may able to find a church. It is tough sometimes; I've gone through some church hunting and sometimes get down about shortcomings I see, but Christ does want you, and me, and all of us to be a part of His body.

For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us. Romans 12:4-6

And if we end up being around brethren with MUCH to be desired... what a wonderful place to learn how to love. ;)

Thank you Veritas.

I pray as well. But you know; The Church is NOT a 'building' that one 'gathers IN' but the Body of those that live for Christ.

I CANNOT judge the hearts of others nor will I TRY. I am CERTAINLY able and CAPABLE of judging the ACTIONS so far as discernment is concerned.

In this respect I will NOT offer judgement to those that 'fill' these churches that I have mentioned. But it IS unlikely that a 'church' that follows an 'UN-RIGHTEOUS pastor' would be ABLE to envoke The Spirit. For The Spirit would NOT expose itself to a 'band of demons' any more than it would prevail in a 'group that CHOSE to worship; 'something different' than God and His Son.

I have had PERSONAL discussions with pastors that INDICATE that they question the very existence of God as The Bible teaches. So, HOW could one of THESE actually LEAD the congregation in ANY direction other than THEIR OWN?

I will GO where I am led. I still attend 'different churches' often, in the HOPES that I will find one that I am able to 'fit in'. But, as is OBVIOUS here, my belief in God as the Father and Christ AS HIS SON makes it difficult for ME and ANY that I would 'gather with'. For 'trintiy' seems to have permeated throughout the Christian community to the point that it SEEMS as if a 'belief' in this DOCTRINE has become MORE important than a BELIEF IN God or His Son.

No consequence however, I have my familiy and ANYONE else that is willing to LISTEN to my witness and testimony of WHAT God has done in MY LIFE. It IS enough for NOW. For WHEN I am led; I follow. And you might just be ABSOLUTELY amazed to witness how often this 'takes place'. Or perhaps you are WELL aware and I digress.

Thanks again for your prayers. But PLEASE, if pray you MUST, pray for me to have STRENGTH to LOVE my brother as myself. For it is THIS that I struggle with MORE than ANYTHING else.

Blessings my brother,

MEC

 

[francisdesales]

fran,

Do you KNOW what YOU sound like? We have been TOLD that the wisdom of God is BUT foolishness to the WORLD. So, ridiculous I MAY INDEED sound. And these accusations are but 'sweet comfort' to my unworthy ears.

Don't bother trying to parallel your foolishness with God's "foolishness"!!! That is a ridiculous statement. What you are trying to say is that when someone acts foolish, it is God's foolishness!

Next, you'll be saying that such behavior found in "Dumb and Dumber", MUST be inspired by God and CANNOT be mistaken because it is part of God's foolishness...

:roll:

Please. give it a rest. The more you type, the further you dig a hole for yourself. God's "foolishness" is backed by Scripture. It is only "foolishness" because it is against the ways of the world. NOT against logic or Scriptures! Your foolishness is NOT God inspired. It is NOT logical. It is CONTRADICTED by Scriptures...

All people who are foolish are not inspired by God. As your own signature says, He is not the author of confusion.

You are confused - and that is not a result of God's "foolishness".

Forgive me if I am speaking in this manner, I normally do not. However, common sense appeals and plain Scriptural verses seem to have no effect on you. So that others do not become befuddled by your nonsense, I feel it is necessary to expose your ridiculous logic with all due force.

Regards

 

[Solo]

... there is BUT ONE TRUE GOD. The Hebrews/Jews were PLAINLY told this by God's prophets. The apostles KNEW this. And I am quite sure that there are MANY even NOW that KNOW this.

Those who are born again, born of God know that there is ONE TRUE GOD, and this ONE TRUE GOD has come in the flesh. The prophets have prophesied of the LORD JEHOVAH GOD COMING IN THE FLESH, AND THIS ONE WHO COME IN THE FLESH IS JESUS CHRIST.

Those of the spirit of antichrist can not answer the truth of the Word of God. They do as their father the devil, and ignore or leave it alone as was the case when the LORD JESUS CHRIST was tempted by the devil.

Here again is the Scripture that shows that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD JEHOVAH GOD, and this Scripture is ignored and left alone by those who do not believe that JESUS CHRIST is LORD JEHOVAH GOD come in the flesh. These poor souls do not know JESUS CHRIST as LORD and SAVIOUR, as they knowingly or unknowingly follow in their father's footsteps.

I will post this again for the third time waiting for a response to the Scripture that shows that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD JEHOVAH GOD, but I suspect that an AD HOMINEM attack will occur as is typical of FALSE TEACHERS.


The following is for the believers on this forum and those that are becoming saved as the angels minister to them:

• 
  
  The Hebrew word יהוה transliterated JEHOVAH is translated LORD, GOD, and JEHOVAH in the English Old Testament and is translated κυριος and θεος in the Greek Septuagint Old Testament. The Greek word κυριος is translated as LORD in the English New Testament.
  
  The Hebrew word יהוה transliterated JEHOVAH is found in the Old Testament of the King James Version Bible and is translated LORD 6510 times, GOD 4 times, and JEHOVAH 4 times.
  
  The Hebrew word אדני transliterated ADONAI is translated Lord 431 times, lord 2 times, and God 1 time. The Hebrew word אדני transliterated ELOHIM is translated God 2346 times where used in reference to JEHOVAH.
  
  Whenever the word LORD is found in the King James Version Old Testament, it is the word יהוה transliterated JEHOVAH. As stated, this occurs 6518 times in the KJV Old Testament.
  
  Once a person understands the usage of the name of the LORD JEHOVAH GOD, one can read the Old Testament with an understanding of who the prophets are prophsying about, and who created the creation, etc. etc.
  
  The Septuagint offers the LORD JEHOVAH GOD in the Greek as follows:
  
  And the LORD God (κυριος ο θεος - LORD GOD)(יהוה אלהים - JEHOVAH ELOHIM) planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. Genesis 2:8
  
  And the LORD God (κυριος ο θεος - LORD GOD)(יהוה אלהים - JEHOVAH ELOHIM) took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. Genesis 2:15
  
  Now we will investigate two sections of Scripture that speak of the LORD JEHOVAH GOD in reference the LORD JESUS CHRIST from the prophets.
  
  First, let us examine Zechariah's prophesy recorded in Zechariah 14. In this section of Scripture, I will include the Hebrew, Greek, and English translation for the words referencing the LORD JEHOVAH GOD.[list:f9ebd]
  1 Behold, the day of the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD) cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD) go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD) my God (Hebrew אלהים = ELOHIM) (Septuagint Greek θεος = GOD) shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD), not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD) shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD), and his name one. Zechariah 14:1-9
  
  Notice that the LORD JEHOVAH GOD is one LORD (vs 9), and this one LORD JEHOVAH GOD shall come with all of the saints with him (vs 5). Paul reveals that JESUS CHRIST is this ONE LORD JEHOVAH GOD COMING WITH ALL HIS SAINTS!!
  
  To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. 1 Thessalonians 3:13

Next, let us look at Isaiah's prophesy concerning the voice that cried in the wilderness preparing the way for the LORD.

• 3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD), make straight in the desert a highway for our God (Hebrew אלהים = ELOHIM) (Septuagint Greek θεος = GOD). 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD), shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD (Hebrew יהוה = JEHOVAH) (Septuagint Greek κυριος = LORD), hath spoken it. Isaiah 40:3
  
  Notice that the prophesy of the voice that is crieth in the wilderness was fulfilled by John the Baptist as recorded in the gospels. John the Baptist was the one crying in the wilderness preparing the way for the LORD JEHOVAH GOD as prophesied by Isaiah.
  
  1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord (Greek κυριος = LORD), make his paths straight. Matthew 3:1-3
  
  1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; 2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord (Greek κυριος = LORD), make his paths straight. Mark 1:1-3
  
  4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord (Greek κυριος = LORD), make his paths straight. 5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God. Luke 3:4-6
  
  19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord (Greek κυριος = LORD), as said the prophet Esaias. John 1:19-23
  
  Once again, it is obvious that JESUS CHRIST is the LORD JEHOVAH GOD whom John the Baptist was preparing the way for as prophesied by Isaiah.

[/list:u:f9ebd]In conclusion, the Scriptures are clear as to the LORD JEHOVAH GOD IS JESUS CHRIST COME IN THE FLESH. Those who cannot confess that the JESUS CHRIST is the LORD JEHOVAH GOD come in the flesh are not of God, and are of the spirit of antichrist.

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:3

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 2 John 1:7

 

[MarkT]

The Greek Word κυριος transliterated KURIOS is translated Lord 667 times, lord 54 times, master 11 times, sir 6 times, Sir 6 times, and miscellaneous 4 times. The Greek word βασιλεα transliterated Basileus is translated king 82 times, King (of Jews) 21 times, King (God or Christ) 11 times, and King (of Israel) 4 times. The Scriptures are clear when they make a determination of meaning King or Lord. The Greek word κυριος is used throughout the Septuagint Old Testament in reference to LORD JEHOVAH GOD.

Obviously the words king and lord are not the same word. A king has a kingdom and subjects. A lord owns property and has servants who serve him and call him Lord. In both cases they rule so perhaps 'ruler' would be a better understanding. In any case the words in this letter are, 'Jesus is Lord' not 'Jesus is 'the' Lord' or 'Jesus is the LORD GOD JEHOVAH'. But why do you count the number of times words appear in the Scriptures Solo? Is there some reason for it? It seems nuts to me.

The Bible is translated for us. There's no need to count words.

 

[Solo]

Obviously the words king and lord are not the same word. A king has a kingdom and subjects. A lord owns property and has servants who serve him and call him Lord. In both cases they rule so perhaps 'ruler' would be a better understanding. In any case the words in this letter are, 'Jesus is Lord' not 'Jesus is 'the' Lord' or 'Jesus is the LORD GOD JEHOVAH'. But why do you count the number of times words appear in the Scriptures Solo? Is there some reason for it? It seems nuts to me.

The Bible is translated for us. There's no need to count words.

Thank you for confirming once again that you are not born again, and are only a "natural" man. Many on this board are praying for your salvation. The Scripture is clear that the natural man cannot receive the spiritual things of God because they are "foolishness" to him. That is why you cannot understand the words in the Scripture and the count of same seems nuts to you. There is only ONE LORD, and when you become born again, born of God, you will be able to clearly see that which I am explaining to you and others.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:12-16

Jesus is LORD of your Lord as the Scripture declares that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD OF LORDS. You my friend have no understanding of the Scripture as you have not been born of God which is evident by your not being able to confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD. You would rather stand by your own wisdom and understanding as opposed to stand on the wisdom and understanding of JESUS CHRIST the LORD JEHOVAH GOD. Even the demons believe that JESUS is the Son of God and they tremble; they too do not have the eyes to see LORD JEHOVAH GOD INCARNATE.

May the LORD JESUS CHRIST REBUKE the evil spirits that are keeping you in bondage to a lie, and in the name of JESUS CHRIST may he bind up the evil spirits and cast them out into the pit. May the LORD minister to you with his angels, building up a hedge of protection to keep you within the safe place where the Holy Spirit can quicken you with the truth of the Word of God.

 

[Imagican]

Av,

I don't believe ANYONE understands 'trinity' COMPLETELY. Neither YOU nor ANYONE else.

Yet I BELIEVE that even a 'child' could understand Father and Son.

There is MUCH written in The Word that I do NOT understand. For instance; the scripture that you offered last.

Now, show me ONE place in the NT where Christ was called 'The Father'. Neither Christ NOR any of His apostles EVER stated that Christ WAS The Father.

So OBVIOUSLY there is some MISUNDERSTANDING from this line of the OT. For Christ has NOT been called Father, EVEN those that created 'trinity' did NOT call Christ FATHER.

I will offer this however. And UNDERSTAND, that this is PURELY speculation. I will NOT say that is IS Biblical even thought my understanding is BASED on Biblical principle:

God IS The Father of Christ. And we HAVE been told that;

1 Corinthians 11:3

3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

It is QUITE possible that there are TWO Fathers. Hold on now, I KNOW what MOST are going to be thinking, WHAT? But bear with me. As God is the Father of Christ, so TOO could Christ be considered the Father of MAN.

Here's why;

We KNOW that God SAID 'let US create man in OUR image'. And we KNOW that Christ was INSTRUMENTAL in the creation of man. When we read the scripture posted above, it INDICATES that what I say here may VERY WELL be 'truth'.

For IF God IS the Head of Christ, and Christ IS The Head of man. And Christ ALSO was instrumental in the creation of man, then in a 'way' Christ could very well be considered a 'Father'. NOT as from a 'trinitarian' point of view, but in a LITERAL sense.

I hesitate to offer this as Biblical for there is NO MENTION of Christ being a 'father' of ANY SORT in the NT. But even IF my offering is 'truth', that STILL wouldn't make Christ THE Father. For there is ONLY ONE that is Father of ALL. And by ALL, I mean EVERYTHING.

While Christ IS the beginning and ending of EVERYTHING pertaining to MANKIND, there is one ABOVE this in the creation of EVERYTHING PERIOD. EVERYTHING offered in the Word points to this idea.

Even though MOST don't even UNDERSTAND this, it is quite defined throughout the NT that; Christ IS the Head of man, as GOD IS the Head of Christ. And this is NOT in a LITERAL sense. For you KNOW that we are NOT Christ Himself even though Christ IS able to dwell within our hearts.

To take it a 'step' further in regard to 'oneness'; We also have that the MAN is the Head of the Woman. SHOWING ORDER. And you know what? It MAY VERY WELL BE; THE ORDER OF CREATION. And this in itself POINTS to Christ being the CREATED Son of God. For there was God FIRST, Christ second, man third and woman fourth. Not ONLY are we dealing with PLACE in POWER, but MOST LIKELY; order of CREATION.

I know, I know, Jesus AS God could NOT have been created. THAT IS exactly MY POINT.

What I am saying here Av, is that YOU know as well as I that Christ is NOT THE Father. For that to BE TRUE would NEGATE about TWO THIRDS of the ENTIRE Bible. 'Trinity' does NOT even teach that Christ IS The Father. So the scripture that you offered MUST have 'some OTHER meaning' than to offer that Christ is THE Father.

And FURTHER MORE; to be CALLED something does NOT Make it LITERALLY TRUTH.

And folks, this DOESN'T take a 'rocket scientist' to 'figure it out'. NO, not EXACTLY what it means, but CERTAINLY what it DOES NOT mean.

MEC