These enough? They are as clear and as precise as they can be. Read them carefully and think about what they're saying. There are many more like these - in fact this doctrine is the basis of the Bible.
[2Ti 1:9 KJV]
9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
[2Ti 1:10 KJV]
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
[Eph 1:1, 3-6, 11, 17 KJV]
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: ...
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. ...
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: ...
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
[Rev 17:8 KJV] 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Roger,
1. God foreknew everything that was to happen over all time.
Foreknowing is different than Predestinating.
God would be an incredibly unjust God if HE chose who would be saved and who would be damned.
Please don't go into the WE ALL SHOULD BE DAMNED...I just can't take it anymore.
A just God will give everyone equal opportunity to be saved.
Just as scripture states:
John 3:16
And yes, John 3:16 is a PRESCRPTIVE verse, and not DESCRIPTIVE.
It is a prescription for HOW to be saved.
It is not speaking for who is already saved.
Why would we even need the NT if God chooses whom He will?
Why would Jesus have to atone for our sins if God chooses us AND
predestines the rest to horrible acts: Like murder, terrorism, rape, etc.
God wrote names in the Book of Life.
But HE didn't pick the persons, He just knew who would come to believe in Him.
2. None of your verses state that God predestined those who will be saved.
Only the following sounds like He did and there is a very simple explanation for it.
[Eph 1:1, 3-6, 11, 17 KJV]
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: ...
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. ...
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: ...
Ephesians 1:1
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: ...
Paul is writing to the born again at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Jesus.
Ephesians 1:3
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
Blessed by God means that we acknowledge how worthy God is for us.
He is the Father of Christ and has blessed us with knowing Jesus, thus having been chosen for salvation through Jesus
because we are united with Him.
Ephesians 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
God chose us IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world.
His plan was that we would be saved by God's grace in the acceptance of His Son by us.
CHOSEN IN HIM. In Christ we are saved. This was God's plan of salvation because He knew we would fail in the Garden. The plan of our salvation was PREDESTINED...the HOW was PREDESTINED... not the WHO.
Ephesians 1:5
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
What is predestined in the above is the ADOPTION as children by Jesus.
THIS is His good pleasure...that through the atoning work of Christ we can be saved and called Children of God.
Ephesians 1:6
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. ...
By the good grace of God, we are accepted by Him through His Beloved...Jesus.
Ephesians 1:11
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: ...
We have obtained an inheritance...heaven.
This has been predestined according to God's purpose...
His purpose must surely be to save as many as possible as Paul state in 1 Timothy 2:4...God our savior desires that all men come to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.
Verse 6 of 1 Timothy 2:6 states that Jesus gave Himself a ransom for ALL.
God knew we would fail in the Garden.
He planned from the beginning how to resolve this problem.
It was through the atoning work of Jesus FOR ALL MEN.
Jesus said He would draw all men to Himself.
God wishes that all men be saved...but not all will accept Him.
Why would Paul say this if God chose who would be saved?
The predestinating was as to HOW and not as to WHO.
I hope you really read this and give it thought.
It took some time to write it.