Why Do Christians Argue Against Works?

[RBDERRICK]

I am sure you are in right thinking.,.. I am glad to say,, we have different stages of faith
1st stage is... knowing and getting salvation,, this stage is not need any works, just faith is need.. Eph 2:8.
Salvation is free gift... there is no choice for discuss in this
2nd stage is ... we are saved to do good works to live as mentors as epistles for Christ and as model people to all other people in world,.. Eph 2:10 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
this is an important different in our call and life with Christ..
May God bless you brother

True, we are being saved by grace through faith, but we are not being justified by Christ without doing the word with His faith.

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

The eternal salvation of Jesus Christ is not separate and apart from obeying Him:

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. (Heb 5)

Imputed righteousness by faith is only the given knowledge of God's righteousness, but if we do not the word, then the knowledge only becomes condemnation for not doing the truth we now know to do in Christ Jesus.

Abraham was imputed righteousness by believing God, so that God made him to know in his heart that His promise is true, but Abraham was not justified by God, until he had offered up Isaac by that faith in God.

No man is declared righteous by God, without doing His righteousness:

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. (1 John)

No man is justified nor saved by God through any dead faith alone, that does not His righteousness, but only agrees there is one true God and He is Christ.

Hearers only are agreers only, and not doers of the truth.

No man while sinning and doing unrighteousness is saved, justified, nor a born son of God, but is of the devil and needs to repent and believe the gospel to obey it:

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John )

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. (2 Thess)

Are you willing to say, that any person now committing fornication, theft, robbery, murder, idolatry, etc... is also saved son and born of God, and not of the devil?

 

[jaybo]

Galatians 3:1-5, "You foolish Galatians! Who has cast a spell on you? Before your eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified! The only thing I want to learn from you is this: Did you receive the Spirit by doing the works of the law or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? Although you began with the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by human effort? Have you suffered so many things for nothing?—if indeed it was for nothing. Does God then give you the Spirit and work miracles among you by your doing the works of the law or by your believing what you heard?"

There it is, right in Scripture.

Writing "Are you willing to say, that any person now committing fornication, theft, robbery, murder, idolatry, etc... is also saved son and born of God, and not of the devil?" Is a perfect example of reductio ad absurdum.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Death is separation. Jesus has reunited us with God through His blood.

Not any of the dead by sinning.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens. (Hebrews)

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. (Isaiah)

The soul that is sinning is till dead.

Are you willing to say plainly that anyone formicating, is still a saved son born of God, and not of the devil?

True, but for the redeemed, He has paid that debt.

The debt is paid for all sins, so that if any repent of sinning, then those past sins are forgiven.

Are you willing to say that the one sinning now, is already forgiven and redeemed?

If we are His, He lays His cross on us as He conforms us to His image.

Jesus' cross is decayed in the earth.

Our cross to bear is spiritual crucifixion of the old life of sin.

We are also seated in heavenly places, sealed unto that Day. God still chastises those sons of His who He loves. (Heb 12).

We are not seated in heavenly places while our bodies are sinning on earth. Soul separation and preservation is strong delusion.

The chastening of the Lord is not the normal results of sinning in this life upon the soul and body. God chastises them that know Him, by no more having His Spirit and fellowship dwelling within them.

Only them that knew Him can know what it is to be separated from Him by sinning with the devil against Him.

As a sinner, I knew that I did not know God, but did not know it was because I was sinning against Him.

Of course, 'salvation by our works' comes 2nd nature by unbelievers (look at all the religions they create requiring one to 'do' in order to please God). Their sin is unbelief! Unbelief that God sent His only Son to redeem mankind from their sins. and freely bestows eternal life through His Son Jesus.

Your accusation of me teaching salvation by works is of course false, since you only put it in there by your own will, and not by quoting me.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (James 2)

Are you willing to say no man is justified by works, but by faith only?

 

[Hopeful]

Does that describe you? It says “BE PERFECT” not claim you are.

Yes, to the glory of the truth of God's word.

“Serve” is an active verb. Again, it is a “do or refrain from doing” verb. It is not a claim you can tell us describes your choices.

Choices we can make.

Again, “departing from inquiry”is an active verb, not a claim you have done so no matter how you actually behave.

Again, a choice we can obey or refrain from obeying.
The choice is "do-able".

There is an evaluating a theology like the Bereans did and there is pronouncing a sentence. Both are judging. You need to see the difference. The former is vital to avoid error. The latter is wrong.

If one is not "spiritual", one can't do either productively.

Sorry mate, but I do not detect a heart that is one that loves God and man that much. You come across as a man who likes to look in the mirror savoring the belief that the face looking back is perfect and sinless just like Jesus because words on a page (not real people) say you are. If you loved God you would take more delight in talking about Him instead of how sinless you are. Those are freed from sin are also freed from narcissism.

"Light" doesn't appeal to every one, so I will leave you.

 

[Hopeful]

I give you another example, at work I often sin by speaking my own words from the Master Self inside me. Sometimes I remember and stop and ask Lord control my tongue, your words, not mine, and sometimes I sense a whole different communion with my work mates as we discuss the matters of God in our lives. My work mates smoke and swear and mostly are agnostic, and often challenge me because they know I am a Christian. The prayer promise I pray does enable me with words from God, but only if I pray them in my mind. Often I forget and speak using human powers, so the sinning begins again.

Jas 1:26 ...bridle my tongue,

1Pe 3:10 ...refrain my tongue from evil,

Isa 50:4 LORD give me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary:

Some of the many prayer promises one can sow in your mind in prayer, asking Jesus to empower your with holy words from God, rather than from men.

SO yes, one can receive power to speak and do, it depends upon which prayer promises you speak. Thus knowing Scripture is important for faith.

Shalom

Are "your" thoughts evil?
Why would you think you need to repent of them?
If you are in Christ, and He is in you, are not all "your" words also His words?

 

[rthom7]

I’m glad you find words from Him to speak. The nomenclature you use is really different and I don’t find the Bible authors referring to these matters in those terms.

I read you other answer. I find that you insert words or decisions into the text to fit your understanding rather than let the words there adjust your understanding. The woman had to have prayed words because your position requires it. The plain text for what it says and doesn’t say is not accepted as written. You kind of teach it rather than it teaching you. I don’t view the scripture that way.

I see, help me out, am I going about using faith wrong than?

Jer 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee,

This prayer promise is quoted as it reads, yet a child like faith can quote the prayer as he remembers, the Lord will answer you all the same, you do not have to quote the Hebrew words, though sometimes I do. It is the intent of the heart the Lord reads.

I use this promise to ask the Lord to wake me from sleep at whatever time I desire. It used to be 4am now it is 5 am or 6 am. You can test the Lord in this promise and see if indeed He wakes you at the hour you specify, getting you out of bed is another matter.

I have a busy mind when I sleep, so I have discovered this prayer promise helps to give me rest :

Ge 2:21 ¶ And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam,

I usually just say Lord give me this tadamuh , the sleep you gave Adam.
And while my mind is busy still, the promise of sleeping deeply happens, and I no longer lie awake for hours on end.

Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue,

I see perhaps what you mean in this one,

Can I ask if you pray "Lord bridle my tongue" how have I changed the essence of the verse here?

Mt 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

What is the context here? What attitudes does the verse speak about?

The promise is broad in it's nature, so if one prays "Lord keep my eye single", you are asking for this power flow via faith.

You write "The woman had to have prayed words because your position requires it. The plain text for what it says and doesn’t say is not accepted as written"

Hmm? Faith is supporting another person.

If you disagree with this principle, than out whole fundamental understanding of faith is wrong. Remember Hebrew is a concrete language, not an abstract one, like Greek is. In Hebrew to get angry is to flair with the nose, in Greek we has he got angry. In Hebrew faith is a supporting concept, in Greek it has become some belief concept.

Ho 14:2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

This verse is one of my faviourite verses that talks about the Science of Salvation and how receiving salvation daily works. Notice it says Take with you words, or in Hebrew take with you learnings. This is a child like description of faith. You take the words of God, now what do you do with them?

You return them to the Lord, and say unto Him in prayer, those words, so you receive repentance and forgiveness and grace, yes, but also the fruit of our lips, are filled with the power of those words.

I get what you are saying, the words are removed from the verse, but the intent of the word is used by the speaker as a prayer promise.

Perhaps it seems strange to you, in this example, I show the Lord's prayer is actually a conglomeration of words from the Father, a good example of supporting His Father's words?

• The Lord's Prayer
  Is the LORD's Prayer, an example of support? Did Jesus support His Father's OT words?
  Notice when Jesus taught His disciples to pray, Jesus prays by supporting His Father's words of promised power:-
  Jesus does not quote the OT writings directly, but He does quote the truths from those writings:-
  A common way to identify the Father, is to look up "father" (ab), which is rare, or "Eloah", a Hebrew reference to a "father like god", or "Most High", a reference to the Father, or "He who sits betweens the heavenly cherubs". The term "YHWH" is a community reference, as is "Elohiym" a community reference.
  Lu 11:2 And Jesus said unto them, When ye pray, say

, (1) Our Father (ab) which art in heaven (shamayim),

• Ge 49:25 Even by the God (el) "Strong Authority" of thy father (ab) "father", who shall help thee; and by the Almighty(shadday), who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven (shamayim) above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
• Job 22:12 Is not God (Eloah) "the Father" in the height of heaven (shamayim) ?

(2) Hallowed (qodesh) be thy (ab) name (shem).

• Ex 3:15 And God (elohiym) said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD (YHWH) God (elohiym) of your fathers (ab), the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name (shem) for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
• Ps 68:5 A father (ab) "reference to elohiym our father" of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God (elohiym) in his holy (qodesh) habitation.
  
  
• Ps 99:1 � The LORD (Father-YHWH) reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims (cherubs) "angels" ; let the earth be moved.
• 2 The LORD (Father-YHWH) is great in Zion; and he is high above all the people.
• 3 Let them praise thy great and terrible name (shem); for it is holy (qodesh).

Lu 11:2 (3) Thy kingdom (malkuwth) come.

• Ps 103:19 � The LORD (YHWH) hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom (malkuwth) ruleth over all.
• Ps 103:13 Like as a father (ab) pitieth his children, so the LORD (Father-YHWH) pitieth them that fear him.

Lu 11:2 (4) Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

The Greek word "thelema" 2307, translated "will", is probably according to Jeff Benner, the Hebrew word "ratsown" 7522, meaning "self will". What is amazing is the way Jesus quotes "words of support" to His heavenly Father:-

• Ex 28:38 ... and it shall be always upon his forehead (Aaron's) , that they may be accepted (ratsown) before the LORD.
• De 33:16 .. and for the good will (ratsown) of him (Elohiym) that dwelt in the bush
• Ezr 10:11 Now therefore make confession unto the LORD (YHWH) God (elohiym) of your fathers (ab), and do his pleasure (ratsown) : and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives.
• Ps 69:13 � But as for me, my prayer is unto thee, O LORD (YHWH), in an acceptable (ratsown) time: O God (elohiym), in the multitude of thy mercy hear me, in the truth of thy salvation (yesha).

(5) Lu 11:3 Give us day by day our daily bread (lechem).

• Isa 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread (lechem) to the eater:
• 11 So shall my word (dabar) be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
• 
  
• 
  
• 12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
  Notice in these words Jesus quotes, Jesus acknowledges the "Father's bread of heaven" is a simile of His words, that He wrote for us, and we eat them, thanking the Father for our daily bread, that comes with promised power. These words do not come and go as an empty void, but they grow in us with a joy of power, that the "trees of the community forest" clap their hands, praising the "Lord of trees".
  (6) Lu 11:4 And forgive(nasa) us our sins (chataah) ; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.
  Jeff Benner has numerous Hebrew words that the Greek word "forgive" might have been. The Author likes "nasa" 5375, to "lift away our guilt" and "salah" 5545, to "forgive or pardon". The Greek word for "sins" here is the Hebrew word "chataah" meaning "sin-offerings", a missing the believer has confessed unto our Sin Bearer, Yeshua.
  
  
• Ge 50:17 So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive (nasa) , I pray thee now, the trespass (pesha) of thy brethren, and their sin (chataah) ; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive (nasa) the trespass of the servants of the God (elohiym) of thy father (ab).
• Ex 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive (nasa)their sin (chataah) --;
• 1Ki 8:36 Then hear thou in heaven (shamayim), and forgive (calach) the sin (chataah) of thy servants,

(7) And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

Ps 140:1 Deliver me, O LORD(Father-YHWH), from the evil man: preserve me from the violent man;
Notice throughout the Lord's Prayer, Jesus is quoting thoughts and themes, and even holy writing phrases in His words of prayer. In other words, Jesus is supporting His Father's words, by quoting them and thanking the Father for His promised flow of Power. Shalom

 

[Hopeful]

I thank you for the very kind words.
I don't believe anyone can keep the commandments 100%.
Which goes back to my original question to you regarding this.
I think we all sin, although it most probably is kept at a minimum if we have love for our Savior,
and this is why John tell us to confess our sins and they will be forgiven.
1 John 1:9
1 John 2:1

And, let's remember, God cannot be fooled.
HE is the judge.

What could you possible love more than our Savior that would cause you to commit a sin?
Sin puts other desires above God's desires, ergo sin is idolatry.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Galatians 3:1-5, "You foolish Galatians! Who has cast a spell on you? Before your eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified! The only thing I want to learn from you is this: Did you receive the Spirit by doing the works of the law or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? Although you began with the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by human effort? Have you suffered so many things for nothing?—if indeed it was for nothing. Does God then give you the Spirit and work miracles among you by your doing the works of the law or by your believing what you heard?"

There it is, right in Scripture.

Your accusation against James teaching salvation by works, by teaching justification by works, is false.

James did not teach salvation by the works of the law, nor did Paul teach being saved while transgressing the law.

Writing "Are you willing to say, that any person now committing fornication, theft, robbery, murder, idolatry, etc... is also saved son and born of God, and not of the devil?" Is a perfect example of reductio ad absurdum.

No answer to a simple question, even by Latin, is the answer of a guilty conscience.

The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me.

OSAS teaches believers to be christian sinners, that will still sin and still be saved. But when they are challenged with the plain meaning of 1 John 3, that any man committing sin is of the devil, and cannot be born of God, they will not answer, because they have no answer.

Until you cease twisting the teaching others into a lie, and become a serious person who answers serious questions, then I'll let you go your own way.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Sin = anything that misses the mark and falls short of God's glory. Rom 3.23
Can you honestly say that being grumpy, angry, or irritable is God's glory

All sin against God is transgression of His law, not moralities of man.

Be ye angry and sin not: means we can get angry, but don't sin because of it.

We can be angry about stubbing our toe, without cursing God and man and ourselves over it.

Read what the works of the flesh are, and you will know what sinning against God is.

Trying to inflate imperfectionism in mortal flesh, to that of sinning against the devil, is the trick of the devil to then reduce sinning against God to any sign of imperfect flesh, including losing our keys.

That way, sins we are imperfect, we are therefore sinners, and so if we sin against God, it is only signs of being imperfect.

OSAS self-justification for sinning.

Things such as depression, constant anger at everyone, self-loathing, shame, etc.

Paul says no to continuing in sin.

True, constant anger against someone in particular is being angry and sinning through bitterness of heart.

Jesus says go and sin no more, and John says sin not.

Righteous indignation. Not the same as anger.

Yes it is. Trying righteously rebuking someone as a hypocrite destroying the faith of others, with ! and not be angry.

And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

As I said, you need to know what God says sinning against Him is, not what man says.

Sinning against God is of the devil, and is death and separation of any soul doing so.

Which does not include getting grumpy. We are real sons of God in mortal flesh, even as He was Son in the flesh, not phony New Age spiritualists.

To the Calvinist, Arminianist doctrine is sinful, and vice versa. One or both are wrong.
Being wrong is NOT God's glory - which means it is sinful.

How is being deceived in God's glory?

Paul was decieved and spoke a lie, when he told the Jews, that them with him on the road to Damascus did not hear the voice of the Lord, when Scripture plainly says they did. They plainly lied to him about hearing anything, while they plainly could not do so about not seeing anything, since they stood speechless because of the Light shining.

Being honestly decieved is not sinning. As with being angry, if our deception results in sinning against God, then we are not honestly decieved but willfully.

Abner was honestly decieved about Joab's friendship, even as was Abel with Cain, it did not make them sinners against God.

Once again, you need to let Scripture rule your mind and doctrine, not your own imagination.

If you want to think getting grumpy is sinning, then don't get grumpy.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word [rhema SPOKEN word] of God. Rom 10.17 IOW if you are NOT hearing God speak to you, you do not have true biblical faith.

The writer of Hebrews 3 times quotes Psalm 95: "Today if you hear HIS voice do not harden your heart."

Exactly true. But of the voice we hear is not according to the Scripture we can read, then we're listening to the wrong voice of angels and men, not of God and Jesus Christ.

And God doesn't talk to any sinner while sinning against Him for the devil, but only says repent and believe the gospel to obey God.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Are we, as Christians, required to do good deeds/works?

Of course. It's called obedience.

We are not justified without them, and eternal salvation is only for them that obey Him.

Our first works and obedience to God is within a pure heart, to cast away any unrighteous thoughts and imagination for sinning.

Once we are doing that by His Spirit, then it becomes easy to do so in the flesh.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. (Matthew)

 

[RBDERRICK]

I'd like to say this to you and rogerg :

I've heard many times in these years I've been on this forum, and also on others, that works DO NOT SAVE US.
Well, I don't know any Christian person that believes that, so why it's repeated ad nauseam, I don't know.

Good point. Sinners always accuse the righteous of trying to be saved by works, and of teaching it. It's like the only cross they bear, to throw up against any works having anything to do with being saved and justified by Christ.

They treat James 2 like an evil vampire coming to suck out all their permanently saved and preserved blood.

It's not enough just to be neutral and not do evil.

The church of Satan's 1st commandment is "I will do no harm."

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (John 3)

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God. (3 John)

Faith alone only hears the knocking, but obeying His voice to open the door is them that are doers of the word and hearers only.

Scripture does not say we are being saved by grace through faith alone. Alone is added to Scripture by the hearers only.

 

[jaybo]

Your accusation against James teaching salvation by works, by teaching justification by works, is false.

James did not teach salvation by the works of the law, nor did Paul teach being saved while transgressing the law.



No answer to a simple question, even by Latin, is the answer of a guilty conscience.

The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me.

OSAS teaches believers to be christian sinners, that will still sin and still be saved. But when they are challenged with the plain meaning of 1 John 3, that any man committing sin is of the devil, and cannot be born of God, they will not answer, because they have no answer.

Until you cease twisting the teaching others into a lie, and become a serious person who answers serious questions, then I'll let you go your own way.

It's only in your imagination that I am making an accusation against James teaching salvation by works, by teaching justification by works. Just as you quoted James, I am quoting Paul, "Does God then give you the Spirit and work miracles among you by your doing the works of the law or by your believing what you heard?"

I'm not interested in the OSAS doctrine. I don't know where you are getiing your doctrine rom, nor do I care.

You need to let Scripture rule your mind and doctrine, not your own imagination. Until you cease twisting the teaching of others into a lie, and become a serious person who answers serious questions, I won't discuss anything further with you.

 

[jaybo]

Good point. Sinners always accuse the righteous of trying to be saved by works, and of teaching it. It's like the only cross they bear, to throw up against any works having anything to do with being saved and justified by Christ.

They treat James 2 like an evil vampire coming to suck out all their permanently saved and preserved blood.




The church of Satan's 1st commandment is "I will do no harm."

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (John 3)

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God. (3 John)

Faith alone only hears the knocking, but obeying His voice to open the door is them that are doers of the word and hearers only.

Scripture does not say we are being saved by grace through faith alone. Alone is added to Scripture by the hearers only.

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."

You can post whatever you want, but I believe what Paul clearly wrote.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, to the glory of the truth of God's word.

Choices we can make.

Again, a choice we can obey or refrain from obeying.
The choice is "do-able".

If one is not "spiritual", one can't do either productively.

"Light" doesn't appeal to every one, so I will leave you.

Your response to those who disagree with your theology tells us that your level of sinlessness has not reached that of the prophets. They wept when people rejected the light. Jesus wept over Jerusalem because they rejected him, feeling sorry for them, not because of his reputation or for himself. You leave because you’re not duly appreciated. This is a choice you make but it isn’t sinless.

Hope, perhaps this is the end and I am sorry. But I’d encourage you to focus more on He whom you say you love and less on the joy of making you sinless in your eyes. You’ll be less often rejected as you’ll find you love others more than previously.

 

[D-D-W]

All sin against God is transgression of His law, not moralities of man.

Be ye angry and sin not: means we can get angry, but don't sin because of it.

We can be angry about stubbing our toe, without cursing God and man and ourselves over it.

Read what the works of the flesh are, and you will know what sinning against God is.

Trying to inflate imperfectionism in mortal flesh, to that of sinning against the devil, is the trick of the devil to then reduce sinning against God to any sign of imperfect flesh, including losing our keys.

That way, sins we are imperfect, we are therefore sinners, and so if we sin against God, it is only signs of being imperfect.

OSAS self-justification for sinning.

True, constant anger against someone in particular is being angry and sinning through bitterness of heart.

Jesus says go and sin no more, and John says sin not.


Yes it is. Trying righteously rebuking someone as a hypocrite destroying the faith of others, with ! and not be angry.

And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

As I said, you need to know what God says sinning against Him is, not what man says.

Sinning against God is of the devil, and is death and separation of any soul doing so.

Which does not include getting grumpy. We are real sons of God in mortal flesh, even as He was Son in the flesh, not phony New Age spiritualists.


Paul was decieved and spoke a lie, when he told the Jews, that them with him on the road to Damascus did not hear the voice of the Lord, when Scripture plainly says they did. They plainly lied to him about hearing anything, while they plainly could not do so about not seeing anything, since they stood speechless because of the Light shining.

Being honestly decieved is not sinning. As with being angry, if our deception results in sinning against God, then we are not honestly decieved but willfully.

Abner was honestly decieved about Joab's friendship, even as was Abel with Cain, it did not make them sinners against God.

Once again, you need to let Scripture rule your mind and doctrine, not your own imagination.

If you want to think getting grumpy is sinning, then don't get grumpy.



Exactly true. But of the voice we hear is not according to the Scripture we can read, then we're listening to the wrong voice of angels and men, not of God and Jesus Christ.

And God doesn't talk to any sinner while sinning against Him for the devil, but only says repent and believe the gospel to obey God.

You have so much stuff there I am not going to even attempt to refute you point by point. I have done that already.
But what you say would make NO SENSE whatsoever to a first century Jew who followed Jesus. The mentality is completely off.

You have to realize that sin encompasses a LOT more than just what you think it does. And no, not all sins are equal. they never were and never will be.

The Hebrew Scriptures (OT) list sins, transgressions and iniquities. They are all different and should not be lumped together into the same pot.

Sins are things you are trying to do right but fail in the attempt. (archery term to aim at the target but miss)
Transgressions are when you INTENTIONALLY disobey God. (much worse than sins)
Iniquities are the transgenerational effects and tendencies of your parents and grandparents sins and transgressions.

The eternal consequences of all 3 are mitigated by the death of our Messiah. The strength to change them into effective obedience is in His resurrection.

Salvation brings us thru adoption into the New Covenant. My wife and I raised 4 kids, and now we are helping to raise 2 adopted grandkids. Do they always do everything perfectly? No. Do they intentionally disobey sometimes? You bet. Does any of that have any bearing on whether or not they are my kids and grandkids? NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Likewise, if we mess up, accidentally or intentionally, we are still HIS children and still saved. But just as my kids get disciplined, so do we.

 

[GodsGrace]

Works (and I'm referring to works for salvation), have to be intended to achieve the law - that is, if we believe in the efficacy of works. What other kinds of works would someone think can bring salvation - just arbitrary, random, unspecific works? And just to be clear ,and as I'm sure you know, I believe only in grace- salvation purely as a gift from God because He has chosen to be merciful to some, not in works for salvation.



Jesus fulfilled the law

[Mat 5:17 KJV] 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.



No. This earth is part of the heavens too
[Luk 21:33 KJV] 33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

[Isa 34:4 KJV]
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling [fig] from the fig tree.
[Rev 6:14 KJV]
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

[2Pe 3:12 KJV] 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?


Repentance is to repent from dead works unto a faith in Christ.

[Heb 6:1 KJV]
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[Heb 9:14 KJV] 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

I think I forgot to post the following:
THY KINGDOM COME THY WILL BE DONE
ON EARTH, AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.
Matthew 6:10 Jesus teaches His disciples to pray...
That God's Kingdom may also be present on earth.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, exactly, however, we are all born as a "natural man", so until God first intervenes to change someone into a spiritual man, they are unable to comprehend things spiritual. 1 Cor. 2:14 is telling us that
salvation is dependent upon God's intervention. Until that happens, in spiritual terms, we are all blind, deaf, and unthinking and dead in sin - unable to give ourselves spiritual life.

How does God "intervene" to change us into a spiritual man?

Does God not intervene for everyone?
John 12:32
"And if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men to Myself."


God admonishes man to seek God and His Kingdom.
Matthew 6:33
"Seek first the Kingdom of God..."


Jesus tells us that those who seek will find.
Matthew 7:8
“For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.


Jesus COMMANDS us to enter through the narrow God.
No command needed if it is God who does the choosing.
Matthew 7:13
"Enter by the narrow gate..."

Not sure of what your point is with this?

My point is simple.

1. Jesus came as an atonement for our sins.
2. Jesus came to set up the Kingdom of God on earth...right when He was on earth teaching and preaching.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

How does God "intervene" to change us into a spiritual man?

Does God not intervene for everyone?
John 12:32
"And if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men to Myself."


God admonishes man to seek God and His Kingdom.
Matthew 6:33
"Seek first the Kingdom of God..."


Jesus tells us that those who seek will find.
Matthew 7:8
“For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.


Jesus COMMANDS us to enter through the narrow God.
No command needed if it is God who does the choosing.
Matthew 7:13
"Enter by the narrow gate..."


My point is simple.

1. Jesus came as an atonement for our sins.
2. Jesus came to set up the Kingdom of God on earth...right when He was on earth teaching and preaching.

Amen!!! The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our lord and of his Christ!

 

[rogerg]

I think I forgot to post the following:
THY KINGDOM COME THY WILL BE DONE
ON EARTH, AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.
Matthew 6:10 Jesus teaches His disciples to pray...
That God's Kingdom may also be present on earth.

No, it is not saying that. In the verse you posted, where in it do you read anything about an establishment of a kingdom? It says God's WILL be done on earth -- that God's desire be accomplished here -- not that His kingdom will replace the kingdom of this earth which kingdom is Satan's kingdom.
While Christ was still on earth and BEFORE His offering was completed, He gave those instructions. He was informing that they were to pray to God that God's will for this earth, which will was Jesus's sacrifice and the salvation of the chosen and judgment against the unsaved, would be successfully completed, bringing forth all that God had intended to go with that. It is not declaring a future eternal kingdom of God on THIS earth to replace the current tone.

[Jhn 6:39 KJV] 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

[2Pe 3:10 KJV] 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

[2Pe 3:13 KJV] 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[rogerg]

1. Jesus came as an atonement for our sins.
2. Jesus came to set up the Kingdom of God on earth...right when He was on earth teaching and preaching.

No and no. From a logic point of view, that would be impossible.