Why do Pentecostals stress speaking in tongues the most?

[Guest]

Minnesota, I agree there are different branches, and some believe that tongues are salvific in nature, while others don't, but I think all believe that it's the 'evidence' of the Holy Spirit in the believer.

The Assemblies of God considers tongues to be the "initial physical evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit." The precise wording is key to understanding their doctrine, and how it contrasts with others. The Foursquare Church believes any of the gifts can be evidence for the baptism. I am not sure of the precise nature of the doctrines taught by some of the other Pentecostal churches, but not all of them see tongues as "the evidence." Again, we need to be careful with the generalizations.

Anyway, We have been talking about this specifically lately in other threads, and so I may have come off more 'broad-sweeping' than I intended based on a running conversation, but in general, which is the word I used in my first post, there is an error according to the Word that gets perpetuated by the denomination as a whole...and it does have an idolatrous quality. Even if I had been intentionally broad-sweeping, I do not find the statement unwarranted, because they denomination does stress speaking in tongues in order to have the Holy Spirit. In the part of my post that wasn't quoted, I also agreed with Mutzrein and said that all denominations are guilty of this...putting their denominational beliefs above the truth of the Word.

It is unwarranted because you are talking about an entire group as a whole when there is great diversity amongst those within the group. There exists no "the Pentecostal denomination." There do exist many Pentecostal denominations. Thus, to make your generalization to work, you will need to show that most of these individual denominations perpetuate the idolatrous error.

To directly contrast, the Assemblies of God does not believe one must speak "in tongues in order to have the Holy Spirit." They believe the Holy Spirit is imparted upon the believer at the point of salvation. They believe the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" is a separate experience which endues the Christian believer with power to be a witness. And, it should be noted, the Assemblies of God is the largest Pentecostal denomination in the United States and the world.

As far as all individual pentecostal believers making it an idol, just to be clear, I don't believe that is always the case...and in my personal experience with the Pentecostal Church of God believers I know, it's not even the norm. I grew up with some friends who were Pentecostal Church of God, and many of them do not speak in tongues...they believe they do not have the Holy Spirit, and yet they have been faithful brothers and sisters in their church for these 25+ years. (I do not deny tongues, for the record, even though I have personally never witnessed an authentic demonstration followed with an interpretation.) This specific church has been very active in spreading the Gospel in a crime infested urban area for as long as their doors have been open...they have been tireless servants. I know other believers who profess to speak in tongues, and they are not pentecostal at all. I tried to touch on that in my post, but looking back it didn't come through very well.

That's fine. That's your experience. My experience contradicts many points of your own experience.

 

[mutzrein]

Lovely

You said speaking of tongues, " . . . I think all believe that it's the 'evidence' of the Holy Spirit in the believer."

I disagree. Tongues is 'evidence' of nothing. Just as miracles are 'evidence' of nothing.

I have heard and witnessed people speaking in tongues that were manifesting a totally different spirit to the Holy Spirit. And I have seen and witnessed people purportedly healed that were manifesting a totally different spirit to the Holy Spirit.

This is why so many people are deceived Lovely. They have no discernment. They think that just because these things happen, it must be of God.

the Lord Bless you

 

[lovely]

The Foursquare Church's site http://www.foursquare.org/landing_pages/4,3.html

Doctrine
Baptism in the Holy Spirit
We believe that the baptism in the Holy Spirit empowers believers to exalt Jesus, to live lives of holiness, and to be witnesses of God’s saving grace; we expect the Spirit’s incoming to be after the same manner as that in which He came upon believers in the days of the Early Church (Acts 1: 5, 8; 2:4). Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.


Assembly of God (USA)

http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/index.cfm

Beliefs
Baptism of the Holy Spirit
All believers are entitled to receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit, and therefore should expect and earnestly seek the promise of the Father, according to the command of our Lord Jesus Christ. This was the normal experience of all believers in the early Christian church. With the experience comes the provision of power for victorious Christian living and productive service. It also provides believers with specific spiritual gifts for more effective ministry. The baptism of Christians in the Holy Spirit is accompanied by the initial physical sign of speaking in other tongues (unlearned languages) as the Spirit of God gives them audible expression. (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:4,8; 2:4; 8:12-17; 10:44-46; 11:14-16; 15:7-9; 1 Cor. 12:1-31)

Pentecostal Holiness

http://arc.iphc.org/theology/artfaith.html

Articles of Faith...
Article Eleven

We believe that the pentecostal baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire is obtainable by a definite act of appropriating faith on the part of the fully cleansed believer, and the initial evidence of the reception of this experience is speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (Luke 11:13; Acts 1:5; 2:14, 8-17; 10:44-46; 19:6). (See Amplification Page for details)

Pentecostal Church of God
8. The Baptism of the Holy Ghost

http://www.pcg.org/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLo ... in_believe

The Baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire (Matthew 3:11), is a gift from God, as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation of time, and is received subsequent to the new birth (John 14:16, 17; Acts 1:8; 2:38, 39; 10:44-48). The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is accompanied by speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance as the initial physical sign and evidence (Acts 2:4).

United Pentecostal Church
http://www.upci.org/doctrine/tongues.as ... 20Evidence

This one was too long to copy and paste.


I am not sure why we are dwelling here, to be honest, because my initial post stated that I was being 'general', and so it was understood that I was talking about Pentecostal denominations in 'general'. I hope to avoid a vain dispute, and so I leave you with the above links to interpret how you will...we just won't agree. The Lord bless you.

 

[lovely]

Lovely

You said speaking of tongues, " . . . I think all believe that it's the 'evidence' of the Holy Spirit in the believer."

I disagree. Tongues is 'evidence' of nothing. Just as miracles are 'evidence' of nothing.

I have heard and witnessed people speaking in tongues that were manifesting a totally different spirit to the Holy Spirit. And I have seen and witnessed people purportedly healed that were manifesting a totally different spirit to the Holy Spirit.

This is why so many people are deceived Lovely. They have no discernment. They think that just because these things happen, it must be of God.

the Lord Bless you

Mutz, to be honest, I am not sure that I could discern....God would have to help me.

 

[destiny]

It comes down to those who seek the crucified life in order to bring glory to God... and those who seek after experiences at the expense of the gospel. Those who do the first will naturally have supernatural signs following them as (Mark 16:17-18) says, as a byproduct of their faith in God.

Those who chase after experiences, or signs (instead of God), are out to glorify themselves.

 

[mutzrein]

Lovely

You said speaking of tongues, " . . . I think all believe that it's the 'evidence' of the Holy Spirit in the believer."

I disagree. Tongues is 'evidence' of nothing. Just as miracles are 'evidence' of nothing.

I have heard and witnessed people speaking in tongues that were manifesting a totally different spirit to the Holy Spirit. And I have seen and witnessed people purportedly healed that were manifesting a totally different spirit to the Holy Spirit.

This is why so many people are deceived Lovely. They have no discernment. They think that just because these things happen, it must be of God.

the Lord Bless you

Mutz, to be honest, I am not sure that I could discern....God would have to help me.

I'm in total agreement with you there Lovely. It can ONLY be with God's help.

 

[Guest]

I am not sure why we are dwelling here, to be honest, because my initial post stated that I was being 'general', and so it was understood that I was talking about Pentecostal denominations in 'general'. I hope to avoid a vain dispute, and so I leave you with the above links to interpret how you will...we just won't agree. The Lord bless you.

It seems I was incorrect about Foursquare doctrine. Fair enough. Yet, this still does not address the more serious issue raised from my initial response to you.

What evidence do you have that Pentecostals, in general, idolize and lord the miracle of speaking in other tongues over their brethren?

 

[lovely]

What evidence do you have that Pentecostals, in general, idolize and lord the miracle of speaking in other tongues over their brethren?

minnesota,

The doctrine is evidence.

Pentecostal denominations who believe one must speak in tongues to be saved are doing more than just putting doctrinal teaching before the Word, or 'stressing tongues', they are teaching another gospel.

Concerning the Pentecostal denominations who do not say it is essential to salvation...

If John 3 is true, then if we are not born of the Spirit we are not born again. Jesus said that you can not enter heaven unless you have been born again. If tongues is the 'evidence' of the Holy Spirit in us, then the only conclusion that can be drawn is that no one but those who speak in tongues may enter in. This is what the 'tongues as the initial evidence in a believer' teaching boils down to when we follow it to it's natural conclusion like the United Pentecostals do.

If we confess with our mouth, and believe in our hearts unto righteousness then we shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12 says that we can not confess Christ except by the Spirit. Saying that one must speak in tongues in order to have the Holy Spirit naturally sets itself up, according to the Word, as being the only way to even confess Christ. For the sake of argument, let's just say I am wrong, and then give the benefit to the Pentecostal brethren.

If it is just the 'evidence' of the Holy Spirit, and we can be saved apart from having the Spirit in us, then at the very least, those who do not speak with 'tongues' do not have the Holy Spirit's help in understanding the Word, or the benefit of His comfort, or His joy, or His power, or His prayers...they are 'weaker' christians. They can't have any of the other administrations and gifts either, and so they do nothing to contribute to the body. There only option is to make receiving the gift of tongues of high importance...even above the other gifts that God may want to give them. This teaching also puts pressure on many to conjure tongues so that they can display this 'power', and I think that we have evidence that this happens a great deal. I think Youtube can provide that...I won't look any up, because I don't watch those things.

After all of this, the question still remains, what of the rest of the body? No tongues, no Holy Spirit, not gifts of the Spirit, and so the other parts of the body are just naturally lower and lacking what they need to do God's work and edify. The doctrine alone provides the evidence in my opinion, because at the very least it denies the power of the Holy Spirit in all other brothers and sisters. The Lord bless you.

 

[Imagican]

lovely,

You have made some very potent points. I thank you for your time and effort.

After a number of pages devoted to the topic, I have one point to make that has been overlooked or simply not stated thus:

The REASON that Pentacostals stress speaking in tongues is that they TEACH that it IS evidence of the presence of The Holy Spirit. The significance is that lead OTHERS to believe this to BE TRUTH. Therefore, in the Petacostal churches, believing in tongues is NOT ENOUGH. They INSIST that it is a 'sigh' of The Holy Spirit. That is ENOUGH, (the teaching to those that are faithful to THEIR doctrine), that they NEED to 'speak in tongues' to PROVE something. This offers the ENCOURAGEMENT to 'speak in tongues', OFTEN to the point that those that BELIEVE they are 'faithful' feel an OBLIGATION to 'speak in tongues'. And the obvious implications is that there WILL BE THOSE that 'create their OWN tongues' that have NOTHING to do with The Holy Spirit in order to PROVE that The Spirit dwells within THEM.

I have witnessed children within the Pentacostal churches, practically FORCED, (by peep pressure alone), to 'practice speaking in tongues'. Now, those that KNOW God KNOW that one CANNOT 'practice speaking in tongues'. The Word plainly offers that one can ONLY speak AS The Spirit GIVES utterance. So, therein lies the inherent danger of such teaching. Teaching that can LEAD to 'false tongues' or 'tongues created by ONESELF' in order to SHOW evidence of The Spirit that may well NOT be present.

And we should NOT blame those that feel the PRESSURE to 'produce'. It is strickly the fault of them that TEACH them falsely. Yes, they are responsible for their OWN actions, but it is in the nature of the flesh to BENEFIT the flesh. And oftentimes we have an unnatural desire to PLEASE those that we 'look up to' and depend upon for guidance.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[merlow]

Concerning the Pentecostal denominations who do not say it is essential to salvation...

If John 3 is true, then if we are not born of the Spirit we are not born again. Jesus said that you can not enter heaven unless you have been born again. If tongues is the 'evidence' of the Holy Spirit in us, then the only conclusion that can be drawn is that no one but those who speak in tongues may enter in. This is what the 'tongues as the initial evidence in a believer' teaching boils down to when we follow it to it's natural conclusion like the United Pentecostals do.

You are correct. Every person that accepts Christ receives the Holy Spirit. The "evidence" is a sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit, which is a separate event that comes after salvation. When the disciples believed in the resurrection they were saved and received the Holy Spirit. (John 20:19-22) Yet, 40 days later, at Pentecost, they were filled with the Holy Spirit.

After all of this, the question still remains, what of the rest of the body? No tongues, no Holy Spirit, not gifts of the Spirit, and so the other parts of the body are just naturally lower and lacking what they need to do God's work and edify. The doctrine alone provides the evidence in my opinion, because at the very least it denies the power of the Holy Spirit in all other brothers and sisters. The Lord bless you.

The pentecostal is not claiming that believers that have not shown signs of being filled with the Holy Spirit are 'lacking what they need to do God's work and edify'. Without being filled with the Holy Spirit you are not fully equipped for ministry. You are not useless; just not working at your full potential. Jesus even told the disciples, who I assume were already experts on the subject, to wait to receive the power of the Holy Spirit and then they would be ready to start their ministries. (Acts 1:4-8)

Being baptized in the Holy Spirit does not make you a better Christian. It's purpose is to give you the power to witness. It does not mean that the Christian that has had the experience is better than the Christian that has not had the experience. It just means that the Christian that had the experience is now better equipped to witness than HE was before the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

 

[Imagican]

While these 'words' SOUND GOOD, the truth is that there ARE Pentacostal churches that teach 'something different' than you have offered.

I have PERSONALLY witnessed Pentacostal churches that TEACH that 'tongues' are NEEDED to show The Spirit. And without it one is merely WAITING to experience it. And imagine the pain that this causes those that NEVER speak in tongues and don't have the SENSE to 'get OUT' of such a church. Allowing MEN to convince THEM that they are NOT Spirit filled for the LACK of 'speaking in tongues'? Imagine the PRESSURE to produce that would be involved with a 'church' such as this?

So, while you may well speak of YOUR church. Your church is most CERTAINLY not the ONLY that exists of this denomination. And there ARE those churches that INSIST that 'tonges' NEED to be manifest in order for The Spirit to BE present.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Jon-Marc]

The Holy Spirit is given to ALL who accept Christ at the moment of their re-birth; that is the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit. The "filling" of the Holy Spirit only takes place when one surrenders his will to God's will and allows Him to have FULL control in his life. It is no longer "My will be done", but it's then "Thy will be done."

Speaking in tongues has nothing whatsoever to do with it, and speaking in tongues is NOT an indication that one has been born again or that they have the Holy Spirit--since ALL believers have the Holy Spirit. The question is; Does the Holy Spirit have US?

The disciples weren't given the Holy Spirit because they had to have Him in order to be saved, but because they couldn't properly do God's will without His help. In the OT days, the Holy Spirit came and went upon people as He was needed and didn't usually stay with anyone, but today He is given to us at the moment of our re-birth and is with us ALL the time. Unfortunately, most of us fail to avail ourselves of His power to live a holy and separated life onto the Lord.

Too many focus their attention on "speaking in tongues" as "proof" that they are born again and have the Holy Spirit. If a person speaks in an unknown tongue or even a known language, there must be an interpreter. Otherwise, he must remain silent in the church and only speak to God. 1 Cor. 14;27,28

Also, 1 Cor, 14:4 says that "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself, but he that prophesieth edifieth the church."

In 1 Cor, 14:18,19, Paul says, "I thank God that I speak with tongues more than ye all. Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."

Paul spoke in tongues (whatever they might be), but he knew that speaking in the language of the people was much more important than showing off and edifying himself. God must be glorified, and that can't happen if the people do not understand what is being said. If it is just gibberish to them, they will get nothing from it.

 

[destiny]

I've been in and out of a lot of pentecostal-charismatic churches over the past few years and it looks like to me they no longer focus on tongues, but are more obsessed with the "prophetic". They used to put a lot of emphasis on speaking in tongues but I sure don't see that now.

 

[Guest]

Lovely,

To extend Merlow's excellent post, the problem is one of misunderstanding of the relationship between Pentecostal doctrinal beliefs (theory) and doctrinal practices (praxis). That is, the belief that the baptism of the Holy Spirit evidenced by tongues is important (theory) does not necessarily lead to the practice of placing themselves above other Christians (praxis). It does not necessarily lead to the other beliefs suggest either. To understand the Pentecostal, one must observe how belief is placed into practice. Then, to generalize about the group, one must be able to provide examples from a wide cross-section of the group.

 

[lovely]

Merlow and minnesota,

Thank you both for your posts.

I think my main point has been made with my last post, and I believe your post, Merlow, makes it even further, "Without being filled with the Holy Spirit you are not fully equipped for ministry". You say that it doesn't make one believer better than another, but then the quote (doctrine) really seems to say that it does. You may not intend it personally, and I don't doubt that, but the very nature of the doctrine of the Pentecostal Denomination's in general intentionally denies the Holy Spirit, and gifts, in other believers, and makes them less qualified than those with tongues to be ministers or servants, of Christ. I think the fruit of this teaching is seen in those who 'conjure' tongues, from the misuse of tongues in the services, and from the fact that tongues as an evidence is highly stressed and that the Holy Spirit in other believers, and their subsequent gifts, are just simply denied.

I believe that denominatialism is really at the root of this, and as I said before the Pentecostal denominations are not the only ones guilty of putting great emphasis on a doctrine of men. Paul tells us that when we follow men, then we ourselves are acting as mere men...we tend to read the Word of God in the framework of our denomination only, instead of seeking the Truth of God alone even if it means coming out of the security of our denominations, or tearing down the high places for the glory of God who is All. I say that as one who has been guilty of this myself, and I am still unlearning it. Paul tells us that 'love' is the most excellent way, and it would do us all good to 'stress' this doctrine more than any other I think.

Unless something new is offered, I don't think that I would have anything else to say. I will continue reading here.


The Lord bless you both.

 

[Guest]

I think my main point has been made with my last post, and I believe your post, Merlow, makes it even further, "Without being filled with the Holy Spirit you are not fully equipped for ministry". You say that it doesn't make one believer better than another, but then the quote (doctrine) really seems to say that it does. You may not intend it personally, and I don't doubt that, but the very nature of the doctrine of the Pentecostal Denomination's in general intentionally denies the Holy Spirit, and gifts, in other believers, and makes them less qualified than those with tongues to be ministers or servants, of Christ.

Consider the doctrine of unconditional eternal security (i.e., once saved, always saved). I often hear Christians criticize this doctrine as being a "license to sin." Certainly, the doctrine could be used to support such a lifestyle, but those who hold the doctrine rarely do. The doctrine is important to them because it describes their secure status with God, but they still believe the Christian is obligated to avoid sinning.

Is it possible Pentecostals share a similar perspective on the doctrine of the baptism in the Holy Spirit as evidence by other tongues? That is, they accept a doctrine which could be abused, but they do not understand or practice the doctrine in that manner? If so, then what evidence exists that Pentecostals use this doctrine to establish themselves as "superior" to other believers?

I think the fruit of this teaching is seen in those who 'conjure' tongues, from the misuse of tongues in the services, and from the fact that tongues as an evidence is highly stressed and that the Holy Spirit in other believers, and their subsequent gifts, are just simply denied.

Fruit, or evidence, of the teaching is important. Does the doctrine necessarily lead to these behaviors suggested? Does the doctrine lead to such things most of the time? If such evidence cannot be produced to support a yes to either of these questions then the generalization is unwarranted.

To make the discussion more interesting, I am Wesleyan in my theology, not Pentecostal. I do not even believe in the doctrine of the baptism of the Holy Spirit as evidence by speaking in other tongues. I am merely defending my Christian brethren and their doctrine because I believe they are being misrepresented.

 

[lovely]

minnesota,

I didn't think you were Pentecostal, and I appreciate your heart to defend your Pentecostal brethren from me. I grew up adhereing mostly to Calvinism in my beliefs, but now our family attends a non-denominational assembly...we do not forbid tongues. While I disagree with Pentecostal denominations about their doctrine, and the fruit it bears, we are all one in the Body and we bear these things together. If what I am saying is the Truth, then I hope that some will hear and will revisit their denominational teaching and make sure it pleases God. If what I am saying is unwarranted of their denomination, then I hope my Pentecostal brethren can bear in love with me. Anyway, thanks for the discussion.

The Lord bless you.

 

[duval]

The most obvious answer to the topic question is: because its easy to imitate!