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Why Faith Alone?

Robert Pate said:
There will be a judgment when all sins will be judged. It has not happened yet. The only way to escape the judgment is to be found "In Christ" Romans 8:1.
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Rom.8:1 says, those who are in Christ....walk after the Spirit. After Christ.
So look,

as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2Cor.5:20

In Christs' stead...as though God was pleading. Ok?

Now I see why I turn the other cheek. I can understand that if someone spits on me, Jesus doesn't want me to knock his teeth out. Cuz like you said, if God hadn't put up with my bs, I'd be fried.
 
journeyman said:
Rom.8:1 says, those who are in Christ....walk after the Spirit. After Christ.
So look,

as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2Cor.5:20

In Christs' stead...as though God was pleading. Ok?

Now I see why I turn the other cheek. I can understand that if someone spits on me, Jesus doesn't want me to knock his teeth out. Cuz like you said, if God hadn't put up with my bs, I'd be fried.
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Don't try to get revenge when persecuted. I know that is the natural thing to do, Romans 12:19.
 
journeyman said:
I believe the Bible teaches salvation is by faith alone, because

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 1Cor.1:21

God deliberately chose something that is foolish to the thinking of this world?.....which is necessary to be saved?

Why would God do that? I believe the reason is, because to live by faith in this world, humility is necessary.

It's humbling to admit we've deeply hurt someone who loves us dearly, but sinners can avoid that humbleness when they think it's foolish to believe in God to begin with.
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Got to thinking about it. Since modern people are quite ready to say sorry they deeply hurt someone (gives a man a feeling of power), not that they did anything wrong, I don’t think it is at all humbling. It’s the opposite. It makes a man feel powerful and proud.

What’s humbling is to admit you did WRONG. That’s very humbling. Besides, God isn’t “hurt” by our sin. We don’t have that power over Him. He’s angry because of what it does to other people who suffer as a result of our evil choice. Puts it all in a different light.
 
journeyman said:
I mean after all the vile things that were done to him, after 3 days, he showed himself still living. The people who did those filthy things to him were still alive too. Why?
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The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9


Perish here refers to eternal damnation.
 
journeyman said:
Why Faith Alone?
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A declaration of righteousness can only be granted to a person through faith, apart from works, because the debt created by sin can not be payed off by doing righteous work. It's impossible to become righteous in God's sight by doing righteous things.

You can only become righteous in God's sight and, therefore, eligible to be in the kingdom of God by having the stain of your unrighteousness removed through faith in God's forgiveness and receiving by faith the imputation of God's righteousness.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Got to thinking about it. Since modern people are quite ready to say sorry they deeply hurt someone (gives a man a feeling of power), not that they did anything wrong, I don’t think it is at all humbling. It’s the opposite. It makes a man feel powerful and proud.
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I've never felt proud about asking anyone I've sinned against, God or man, to forgive me.
Dorothy Mae said:
What’s humbling is to admit you did WRONG. That’s very humbling.
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That's the point.
Dorothy Mae said:
Besides, God isn’t “hurt” by our sin.
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Any decent father is hurt by the sinful actions of a child that went wayward. That's just a natural influence of the Holy Spirit all around this world.
I don't believe any human (except for Jesus) could know the depth of our Fathers' feelings. I do know his Spirits' groanings can't be expressed by any decent human dad.
Dorothy Mae said:
We don’t have that power over Him.
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Has nothing to do with human power. When our Lord came into this world, he didn't lose any knowledge of who he is.
Dorothy Mae said:
He’s angry because of what it does to other people who suffer as a result of our evil choice. Puts it all in a different light.
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What the light reveals concerning Gods' anger, is how the righteous suffer, as his only Son did. But God showed mercy to us, while we were yet unrighteous.
 
JLB said:
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

Perish here refers to eternal damnation.
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Absolutely JLB! That's why the Lamb of God, who is God endured sins....that all should come to repentance.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
A declaration of righteousness can only be granted to a person through faith, apart from works, because the debt created by sin can not be payed off by doing righteous work. It's impossible to become righteous in God's sight by doing righteous things.

You can only become righteous in God's sight and, therefore, eligible to be in the kingdom of God by having the stain of your unrighteousness removed through faith in God's forgiveness and receiving by faith the imputation of God's righteousness.
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Actually my friend,

our unrighteousness is removed through faith in God's forgiveness and enduring by faith the imputation of God's righteousness.
 
journeyman said:
I've never felt proud about asking anyone I've sinned against, God or man, to forgive me.
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Of course. That is the correct form. But you talked about being humbled by hurting someone. That is what is commonly said in the non-apology apology. " I'm sorry I hurt you." It is not saying anything humbling as only a monster is not sorry they hurt someone.
journeyman said:
That's the point.

Any decent father is hurt by the sinful actions of a child that went wayward. That's just a natural influence of the Holy Spirit all around this world.
I don't believe any human (except for Jesus) could know the depth of our Fathers' feelings. I do know his Spirits' groanings can't be expressed by any decent human dad.
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True, He was grieved when the whole world was doing terrible things to one another but that is also the same as any judge would feel about rampant crime.

In any case, no one asks God to forgive them for hurting him. That is assuming a proud power we do not have. His most common reaction to sin anger in scripture. And some of his children do know how he feels about matters and since he loves all men, there is no comparison with the father who cares only for his son who goes wrong and not the kid down the street. It might be like man who has 10 children and they all start beating on each other and on the neighbor kids. That comes closer.
journeyman said:
Has nothing to do with human power. When our Lord came into this world, he didn't lose any knowledge of who he is.
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I do not assume this although it might be true. But his experience is not ours and we have no way of knowing what his experience was.
journeyman said:
What the light reveals concerning Gods' anger, is how the righteous suffer, as his only Son did. But God showed mercy to us, while we were yet unrighteous.
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Well, that is true as well but he is angry over sin in any case. Also because it is wrong. He does not think it less wrong if no one suffers.
 
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JLB said:
Unfortunatly not all will repent.

Many believe the hypergrace/osas doctrine of deception, and think thats a work of the law.


JLB
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It is always surprising to me the strong aversion some believers have to doing good. They will not be told under any scripture that they must reign in their desires and do some times something right for others. NO WORKS no matter what. It is like they are allergic to doing good. I once asked one of these if they are required to love God. She said no because that was a work. Can you imagine? She does not even have to love God at all in her christian theology.
 
journeyman said:
Actually my friend,

our unrighteousness is removed through faith in God's forgiveness and enduring by faith the imputation of God's righteousness.
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Do you think it necessary to forgive others, and continue to forgive others to maintain the imputation of God's righteousness? Just wondering...
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Of course. That is the correct form. But you talked about being humbled by hurting someone. That is what is commonly said in the non-apology apology. " I'm sorry I hurt you." It is not saying anything humbling as only a monster is not sorry they hurt someone.
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A monster for sure. A "beast" actually. A lesson Christs' followers found out real quick,

Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.....Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. Act.4:27,29
Dorothy Mae said:
True, He was grieved when the whole world was doing terrible things to one another but that is also the same as any judge would feel about rampant crime.
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Just judge is the point. It isn't the Person who didn't do "what for?", that's going to get what for.
Dorothy Mae said:
In any case, no one asks God to forgive them for hurting him. That is assuming a proud power we do not have. His most common reaction to sin anger in scripture. And some of his children do know how he feels about matters and since he loves all men, there is no comparison with the father who cares only for his son who goes wrong and not the kid down the street. It might be like man who has 10 children and they all start beating on each other and on the neighbor kids. That comes closer.
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Lovingly sis,
sometimes talking to you is frustrating. I never said God doesn't care about the kid down the street. I never said believers should only care about their own son, not the kid down the street. Dorothy, why would I believe that when I was that kid down the atreet?
Dorothy Mae said:
I do not assume this although it might be true. But his experience is not ours and we have no way of knowing what his experience was.
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As long as you know that when God came in flesh, Paul said,

I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, Phl.3:10

In other words, Make your experience mine.
Dorothy Mae said:
Well, that is true as well but he is angry over sin in any case. Also because it is wrong. He does not think it less wrong if no one suffers.
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It's true...but...I need a break.
 
journeyman said:
A monster for sure. A "beast" actually. A lesson Christs' followers found out real quick,

Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.....Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. Act.4:27,29

Just judge is the point. It isn't the Person who didn't do "what for?", that's going to get what for.

Lovingly sis,
sometimes talking to you is frustrating. I never said God doesn't care about the kid down the street. I never said believers should only care about their own son, not the kid down the street. Dorothy, why would I believe that when I was that kid down the atreet?
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You know, you introduce Pilate and Herod talking together and I never said they did not. Shall I take that approach? Why is it frustrating when I point out other factors that are not in the original post but you can do so and that is OK? Do you see the point?

If a man is suffering because his son is making very bad choices, which was your example of God, I pointed out that this man would not be suffering if his son was doing so but the kid across town sleeping in the gutter was. We as humans do not have the capacity to care emotionally for all of mankind (or another way either.) But God does. He does not hurt when we do wrong but is not bothered by others who do wrong, as a normal father does. God is not like the father watching his son go wrong and cares deeply but the others on the planet doing wrong are not a concern. That is just too limited.
journeyman said:
As long as you know that when God came in flesh, Paul said,

I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, Phl.3:10

In other words, Make your experience mine.

It's true...but...I need a break.
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Of course Jesus was God in the flesh. But what that experience is like we do not know. We are not supposed to know. I guess I read a fair bit of people who do not know the real God very well but like to tell us with great confidence, what God feels and thinks. Those who really know Him are less likely to do so as their own ignorance is just too real.

I know I am different and am a deeper thinker than most.
 
journeyman said:
I know. Those doctrines of demons all come from the heresy that our Lord Jesus suffered in place of sinners.
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Do you believe Jesus suffered and died on the cross just for Himself?
 
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