Why I am not a theological liberal.

[OzSpen]

I read the article you just quoted and quoted myself in my post.


Did you read my Post?


I doesn't seem so.

JLB,

I most certainly read your post. What causes you to say I didn't?

In #20 I supplied more comprehensive definitions of heresy when I wrote:

In NT Greek, the term from which we get “heresy” is hairesis. Arndt & Gingrich’s Greek Lexicon (1957:23) states that hairesis means ‘sect, party, school’. It was used of the Sadduccees in Acts 5:17; of the Pharisees in Acts 15:5. Of the Christians in Acts 24:5. It is used of a heretical sect or those with destructive opinions in 2 Peter 2:1 (“destructive heresies” ESV).

The article on hairesis in Kittel’s Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (1964:182f) states that its “usage in Acts corresponds exactly to that of Josephus and the earlier Rabbis” but the development of the Christian sense of heresy does not parallel this Rabbinic use.

When the NT ekklesia (church) came into being, there was no place for hairesis. They were opposed to each other. This author states that “the greater seriousness consists in the fact that hairesis affect the foundation of the church in doctrine (2 Pt. 2:1), and that they do so in such a fundamental way as to give rise to a new society alongside the ekklesia” (Kittel 1964:183).

From the NT, we see the term, heresy, being used to mean what Paul called strange doctrines, different doctrine, doctrines of demons, every wind of doctrine, etc. (I Timothy 1:3; 4:1;6:3; Ephesians 4:14), as contrasted with sound doctrine, our doctrine, the doctrine conforming to godliness, the doctrine of God, etc. (I Timothy 4:6; 6:1,3; II Timothy 4:3; Titus 1:9; 2:1, 10).

Are you reading the more detailed definition I supplied?

Oz

 

[JLB]

> Can you demonstrate how the Holy Spirit defined heresy and settled what is or is not the Christian faith throughout history?

I really wasn’t alive “throughout history” and certainly don’t know everything the Holy Spirit knows. What I do know is what the Holy Spirit has taught me through the scriptures, during my life.


I shared the scriptures that were pertinent to your question.


Heresy can be defined as any teaching that is not from Christ, and causes a person to depart from the faith in Jesus Christ.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



The word heresy as defined by extra biblical resourses —

Heresy — Strong's G139 - hairesis​

1. act of taking, capture: e.g. storming a city
2. choosing, choice
3. that which is chosen
4. a body of men following their own tenets (sect or party)
   1. of the Sadducees
   2. of the Pharisees
   3. of the Christians
5. dissensions arising from diversity of opinions and aims

The primary definition of this word pertains to the act of taking, capture: e.g. storming a city.


The way a city is captured or overthrown or destroyed is by dividing it.


Heresy divides the body of Christ, the city of God, the New Jerusalem, into various sects or divisions or denominations.


The Holy Spirit pleads with s through Paul —


Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 1:10

• that you all speak the same thing,
• and that there be no divisions among you, but
• that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

This comes when we submit to the Holy Spirit, and give heed to the teachings of Jesus Christ;


Not the teachings of Catholicism
Not the teaching of John Calvin
Not the teachings of Martin Luther

Not the teaching of anyone except Jesus Christ, the Mediator of the New Covenant.


You can find these teachings in the New Testament through His Apostles.






JLB

 

[JLB]

simple put, what is the name of your church and post any doctrinal link ,statement and do you 100 per cent agree with your pastor

First of all I get my doctrine from God’s word, not from a Pastor.


Secondly, does any statement of faith encompass everything a Pastor believes?





JLB

 

[JLB]

I most certainly read your post. What causes you to say I didn't?

In #20 I supplied more comprehensive definitions of heresy when I wrote:

So you believe, based on the “more comprehensive definition” of the word heresy, that the different denominations come from people being unified in their doctrine and following the doctrine of Christ?

 

[JLB]

God's truth has been taught time over time, word upon word since the beginning of time, but yet man has always rejected the truth in favor of their own theological liberal concepts of interpretations of a society that follows heretical socially acceptable teachings of man.

Amen.


Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4


We need the truth of God’s word, now more than ever, passionately developing a love for the truth, lest we become the enemy of God.



The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10

• with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

JLB

 

[OzSpen]

So you believe, based on the “more comprehensive definition” of the word heresy, that the different denominations come from people being unified in their doctrine and following the doctrine of Christ?

JLB,

I never said that. I never intended that. You have invented the content of your reply about my post. If you continue this irrational way of interacting with me, I will not reply further.

I've been trying to open ways of communication with you but you're closing the door on me.

Oz

 

[Walpole]

I really wasn’t alive “throughout history” and certainly don’t know everything the Holy Spirit knows. What I do know is what the Holy Spirit has taught me through the scriptures, during my life.


I shared the scriptures that were pertinent to your question.


Heresy can be defined as any teaching that is not from Christ, and causes a person to depart from the faith in Jesus Christ.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



The word heresy as defined by extra biblical resourses —

Heresy — Strong's G139 - hairesis​

1. act of taking, capture: e.g. storming a city
2. choosing, choice
3. that which is chosen
4. a body of men following their own tenets (sect or party)
   1. of the Sadducees
   2. of the Pharisees
   3. of the Christians
5. dissensions arising from diversity of opinions and aims

The primary definition of this word pertains to the act of taking, capture: e.g. storming a city.


The way a city is captured or overthrown or destroyed is by dividing it.


Heresy divides the body of Christ, the city of God, the New Jerusalem, into various sects or divisions or denominations.


The Holy Spirit pleads with s through Paul —


Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 1:10

• that you all speak the same thing,
• and that there be no divisions among you, but
• that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

This comes when we submit to the Holy Spirit, and give heed to the teachings of Jesus Christ;


Not the teachings of Catholicism
Not the teaching of John Calvin
Not the teachings of Martin Luther

Not the teaching of anyone except Jesus Christ, the Mediator of the New Covenant.


You can find these teachings in the New Testament through His Apostles.






JLB

I'm aware of what the definition of heresy is. I also appreciate your random Scripture verses as well.

However, I originally posed the following two questions originally:

1. Who gets to decide what is or is not heresy?

2. Who gets to decide what is or is not the Christian faith?

You replied, "The Holy Spirit, as taught in the New Testament." (Source

Another posted answered similarly to your answer, with simply saying, "God does." (Source

What I am trying to understand this works practically. In other words, how, when and where did God / the Holy Spirit intervened in history to define something as heretical and to declare what is or is not the Christian faith?

In the fourth century, the Arianism was rampant throughout Christendom. It is said a majority of bishops were adherents. Is Arianism a heresy? Is Arianism true? When, how and where did God declare whether it is or is not a heresy?

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm aware of what the definition of heresy is. I also appreciate your random Scripture verses as well.

However, I originally posed the following two questions originally:

1. Who gets to decide what is or is not heresy?

2. Who gets to decide what is or is not the Christian faith?

You replied, "The Holy Spirit, as taught in the New Testament." (Source

Another posted answered similarly to your answer, with simply saying, "God does." (Source

What I am trying to understand this works practically. In other words, how, when and where did God / the Holy Spirit intervened in history to define something as heretical and to declare what is or is not the Christian faith?

In the fourth century, the Arianism was rampant throughout Christendom. It is said a majority of bishops were adherents. Is Arianism a heresy? Is Arianism true? When, how and where did God declare whether it is or is not a heresy?

I know this reply was to JLB, but is it not the Holy Spirit that guides us into all truths and teaches us how to Spiritually discern what is truth from error?
John 14:26; 1 John 4:1-6

It is the Spirit of God who decides what is heresy and what is the true Christian faith as His Holy Spirit reveals all to us that seek truth.

 

[jasonc]

First of all I get my doctrine from God’s word, not from a Pastor.


Secondly, does any statement of faith encompass everything a Pastor believes?





JLB

it gives an idea ,do you just assume your church is right ?

I can post the arp doctrine easily .second you aren't gifted to be a pastor or if you were you would be using it .

I find simple low church where they don't know what to post or stare to be ill equipped

I can get discipling
apologetics
and also theology ,we have the ministers

local tiny churches often can't.mine can .

my church encourages in depth bible study but not all can be like oz pen
its in fair to call those heretics over being in different doctrines and also denying that your church has one .

it does .you do .

 

[for_his_glory]

What I am trying to understand this works practically. In other words, how, when and where did God / the Holy Spirit intervened in history to define something as heretical and to declare what is or is not the Christian faith?

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

1Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Timothy 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

 

[Fastfredy0]

1. Who gets to decide what is or is not heresy?

2. Who gets to decide what is or is not the Christian faith?

As I said before, God determines what is a heresy. God decides what is truth.

You're an articulate guy, but I have had difficulty with your subsequent redirect questions.

I agree with for_his_glory when she says:

It is the Spirit of God who decides what is heresy and what is the true Christian faith as His Holy Spirit reveals all to us that seek truth.

I would add that the majority of what has been communicated by the Spirit of God is found in the Bible.
Being an R.C. your foundation for truth varies from mine IMO.

I think you are asking, by way of example is: ... well, two people claim to be lead by the Spirit of God. Let's call them Fastfredy and Walpole.
Fastfredy claims the source of truth is essentially and almost entirely found in the 66 books of the Bible.
Walpole claims the source of truth is the 66 Books of the Bible, R.C. tradition and the apocrypha.
How does one determine who is the heretic? This is a very good question. Since there are approximately 800M protestants and 600M R.C.s we can conclude that we don't have agreement upon the answer.

Aside: My statement about what you claim is the source of truth is my estimation and not necessarily your opinion, but this illustrates my point. My point is what constitutes heresy (truth) varies except for agreement that God is the source of truth/doctrine. We all consider our view point to be the most probable teaching; otherwise, we would have changed our viewpoint/doctrine. Why do so many get various things wrong ...

1. 1. The silence of the Bible on a particular topic (Deuteronomy 29:29; John 20:30; 21:25)
2. 2. A theologian’s partial knowledge/understanding of the entire Bible (Luke 24:25–27, 32; 2 Peter 3:16)
3. 3. The inadequacy of human language (1 Corinthians 2:13–14; 2 Corinthians 12:4)
4. 4. The finiteness of the human mind (Job 11:7–12; 38:1–39:30; Isaiah 55:8-9; Romans 11:33–35 )
5. 5. The lack of spiritual discernment/growth (1 Corinthians 3:1–3; Hebrews 5:11–13 ) John MacArthur – Biblical Doctrine
6. The depravity of man
7. Unbelief (1 Corinthians 2:14 ) and spiritual immaturity
8. An organized, disciplined mind that can correlate knowledge. A knowledge of the original languages of the Bible and exegetical methods.
9. Personal bias
10. The Spirit’s illumination

Aside2: Maybe that's not what you are getting at ...

 

[Walpole]

I know this reply was to JLB, but is it not the Holy Spirit that guides us into all truths and teaches us how to Spiritually discern what is truth from error?
John 14:26; 1 John 4:1-6

It is the Spirit of God who decides what is heresy and what is the true Christian faith as His Holy Spirit reveals all to us that seek truth.

I'm going to pick on Arianism by way of trying to demonstrate the practicality of what you are positing.

I think most heretics believe the Holy Spirit is guiding them. That was certainly the case with Arius...

‘According to faith of God’s elect, God’s prudent ones,
Holy children, rightly dividing, God’s Holy Spirit receiving,
Have I learned this from the partakers of wisdom,
Accomplished, divinely taught, and wise in all things.
Along their track, have I been walking, with like opinions.
I the very famous, the much suffering for God’s glory;
And taught of God, I have acquired wisdom and knowledge.’

(Source)

1. Arius claimed to be guided by the Holy Spirit. Is Arianism a heresy?

2. When, how and where did God declare wether it is or is not a heresy?

 

[Walpole]

As I said before, God determines what is a heresy. God decides what is truth.

Please fill in the blank...

"God determines what is a heresy by __________________." (Insert the means or mechanism by which He makes such a determination.)

You're an articulate guy, but I have had difficulty with your subsequent redirect questions.

I agree with for_his_glory when she says:

I would add that the majority of what has been communicated by the Spirit of God is found in the Bible.
Being an R.C. your foundation for truth varies from mine IMO.

I think you are asking, by way of example is: ... well, two people claim to be lead by the Spirit of God. Let's call them Fastfredy and Walpole.
Fastfredy claims the source of truth is essentially and almost entirely found in the 66 books of the Bible.
Walpole claims the source of truth is the 66 Books of the Bible, R.C. tradition and the apocrypha.
How does one determine who is the heretic? This is a very good question. Since there are approximately 800M protestants and 600M R.C.s we can conclude that we don't have agreement upon the answer.

Aside: My statement about what you claim is the source of truth is my estimation and not necessarily your opinion, but this illustrates my point. My point is what constitutes heresy (truth) varies except for agreement that God is the source of truth/doctrine. We all consider our view point to be the most probable teaching; otherwise, we would have changed our viewpoint/doctrine. Why do so many get various things wrong ...

1. 1. The silence of the Bible on a particular topic (Deuteronomy 29:29; John 20:30; 21:25)
2. 2. A theologian’s partial knowledge/understanding of the entire Bible (Luke 24:25–27, 32; 2 Peter 3:16)
3. 3. The inadequacy of human language (1 Corinthians 2:13–14; 2 Corinthians 12:4)
4. 4. The finiteness of the human mind (Job 11:7–12; 38:1–39:30; Isaiah 55:8-9; Romans 11:33–35 )
5. 5. The lack of spiritual discernment/growth (1 Corinthians 3:1–3; Hebrews 5:11–13 ) John MacArthur – Biblical Doctrine
6. The depravity of man
7. Unbelief (1 Corinthians 2:14 ) and spiritual immaturity
8. An organized, disciplined mind that can correlate knowledge. A knowledge of the original languages of the Bible and exegetical methods.
9. Personal bias
10. The Spirit’s illumination

Aside2: Maybe that's not what you are getting at ...

As I wrote in my reply to "For_His_Glory", all heretics claim to be led by the Spirit and use the Scriptures. So, how does God determine what is or is not heresy? I have used the example of Arius, who himself was a Scripture, having studied at the Didaskaleion of Antioch, which emphasized Scriptural literalism. He also believed he was guided by the Holy Spirit.

So...is Arianism heretical? If so, when, where and how did God declare it such?

 

[OzSpen]

I'm aware of what the definition of heresy is. I also appreciate your random Scripture verses as well.

However, I originally posed the following two questions originally:

1. Who gets to decide what is or is not heresy?

2. Who gets to decide what is or is not the Christian faith?

You replied, "The Holy Spirit, as taught in the New Testament." (Source

Another posted answered similarly to your answer, with simply saying, "God does." (Source

What I am trying to understand this works practically. In other words, how, when and where did God / the Holy Spirit intervened in history to define something as heretical and to declare what is or is not the Christian faith?

In the fourth century, the Arianism was rampant throughout Christendom. It is said a majority of bishops were adherents. Is Arianism a heresy? Is Arianism true? When, how and where did God declare whether it is or is not a heresy?

Walpole,

First gives plenty of hints on how to identify heresy. Here's how 1 Peter 2 (NIV) begins:

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them – bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping (1 Pet 2:1-3 NIV).​

​

They will bring "the way of truth into disrepute" by:

• The teaching of false prophets and false teachers whose teaching does not agree with "the way of truth" (the Scriptures).
• Being greedy;
• These teachers exploit people with fabricated stories.
• They have condemnation that is hanging them.
• Their destruction has been active.

Let me give you an example from my book that is complete (except for an index) and I'm about to send it to Wipf and Stock Publishers who have offered me a contract.

Who do you think would have defined history this way? “There will always be divergent historical Jesuses” with resultant “divergent Christs.” “This is how we see Jesus-then as Christ-now.”

He also considers this as the definition of history: “History is the past reconstructed interactively by the present through argued evidence in public discourse.”

Try applying that definition to the history of Christopher Columbus, the terrorism and the twin towers in NYC in 2001, and the finding of Australia by Captain James Cook in 1770.

Oz

 

[Fastfredy0]

Please fill in the blank...

"God determines what is a heresy by __________________." (Insert the means or mechanism by which He makes such a determination.)

God determines what is a heresy by His Essence.
His ESSENCE being His attributes as best man can define them keeping in mind His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts.

God defines truth, God defines right and wrong. If God tells people to kill babies, which He has done, it is just, good.
God is not controlled by a means, mechanism or rules; He is sovereign. What He says and does is perfect by definition and this partially defines God; that nothing can even be thought that is superior to Him .... no rule, no mechanism.

As I wrote in my reply to "For_His_Glory", all heretics claim to be led by the Spirit and use the Scriptures.

Christian heretics ... agreed

So, how does God determine what is or is not heresy?

By His essence. He is perfect (lacks nothing desirable and has everything desirable) by definition. Any belief or opinion contrary to God's essence is heretical I suppose is another way of putting. Since no one's opinions can express an incomprehensible God, I suppose we are all heretics to some extent given the definition I am using.

I have used the example of Arius, who himself was a Scripture, having studied at the Didaskaleion of Antioch, which emphasized Scriptural literalism. He also believed he was guided by the Holy Spirit.

Arius is heretical if his opinion/belief is contrary to God's essence (who God is).

So...is Arianism heretical?

Arianism maintains that the Son of God was created by the Father and was therefore neither coeternal with the Father, nor co-substantial. Thus, in my opinion Arianism, is heretical as it is not in agreement with God's essence. Now, if Arianism be true, that would make me the heretic in this matter.

If so, when, where and how did God declare it such?

In my opinion
Premise 1: Definition of heresy is opinion/belief is contrary to God's essence (who He is, what He says).
Premise 2: Christ is co-eternal as Jesus is the Creator also verifies His deity, because God is portrayed throughout the Bible as the Creator (Genesis 1:1; Psalm 102:25; Isaiah 40:28; 42:5; 45:18; Mark 13:19; Romans 1:25; Ephesians 3:9; Revelation 4:11). MacArther
Premise 3: Arianism maintains that the Son of God was created
Conclusion: Arianism is heretical because premise 3 is false and premise 2 is true.

 

[Walpole]

Walpole,

First gives plenty of hints on how to identify heresy. Here's how 1 Peter 2 (NIV) begins:

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them – bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping (1 Pet 2:1-3 NIV).​

​

They will bring "the way of truth into disrepute" by:

• The teaching of false prophets and false teachers whose teaching does not agree with "the way of truth" (the Scriptures).
• Being greedy;
• These teachers exploit people with fabricated stories.
• They have condemnation that is hanging them.
• Their destruction has been active.

Let's fast forward 300 years from this letter. A Scripture scholar named Arius claims to be inspired by the Holy Spirit. He begins teaching his doctrine. Is what he teaches heresy? Who makes that determination?

Let me give you an example from my book that is complete (except for an index) and I'm about to send it to Wipf and Stock Publishers who have offered me a contract.

Who do you think would have defined history this way? “There will always be divergent historical Jesuses” with resultant “divergent Christs.” “This is how we see Jesus-then as Christ-now.”

He also considers this as the definition of history: “History is the past reconstructed interactively by the present through argued evidence in public discourse.”

Try applying that definition to the history of Christopher Columbus, the terrorism and the twin towers in NYC in 2001, and the finding of Australia by Captain James Cook in 1770.

Oz

I do not follow what you are trying to say here. I am not sure what a "divergent Christ" means.

 

[OzSpen]

I'm aware of what the definition of heresy is. I also appreciate your random Scripture verses as well.

However, I originally posed the following two questions originally:

1. Who gets to decide what is or is not heresy?

2. Who gets to decide what is or is not the Christian faith?

You replied, "The Holy Spirit, as taught in the New Testament." (Source

Another posted answered similarly to your answer, with simply saying, "God does." (Source

What I am trying to understand this works practically. In other words, how, when and where did God / the Holy Spirit intervened in history to define something as heretical and to declare what is or is not the Christian faith?

In the fourth century, the Arianism was rampant throughout Christendom. It is said a majority of bishops were adherents. Is Arianism a heresy? Is Arianism true? When, how and where did God declare whether it is or is not a heresy?

Walpole,

God has placed teachers in the church to guide us into all truth through the Scriptures:

Arianism is a heresy named for Arius, a priest and false teacher in the early fourth century AD in Alexandria, Egypt. One of the earliest and probably the most important item of debate among early Christians was the subject of Christ’s deity. Was Jesus truly God in the flesh, or was Jesus a created being? Was Jesus God or not? Arius denied the deity of the Son of God, holding that Jesus was created by God as the first act of creation and that the nature of Christ was anomoios (“unlike”) that of God the Father. Arianism, then, is the view that Jesus is a finite created being with some divine attributes, but He is not eternal and not divine in and of Himself.

Arianism misunderstands biblical references to Jesus’ being tired (John 4:6) and not knowing the date of His return (Matthew 24:36). It may be difficult to understand how God could be tired or not know something, but these verses speak of Jesus’ human nature. Jesus is fully God, but He is also fully human. The Son of God did not become a human being until a specific point of time we call the Incarnation. Therefore, Jesus’ limitations as a human being have no impact on His divine nature or His eternality (Got Questions: Arianism).

In my part of the world there is so little teaching in the churches, based on exposition of Scripture. If it weren't for allert churches in the 4th century, Arianism would not have been nipped in the bud.

It take alert people, especially elders, to pick up theological error in the church. They've done it with Arianism in the past. How would you recognize the errors of the JWs and Mormons? There is an active Christadelphian group where I live. They run an aged care facility.

There is an extra responsibility for all Christians - described in Acts 17:11 (NIV), "Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."

All Christians have the responsibility to examine the Scriptures daily of what the pastor preaches to consider if what he/she says agrees with Scripture.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

God determines what is a heresy by His Essence.
His ESSENCE being His attributes as best man can define them keeping in mind His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts.

God defines truth, God defines right and wrong. If God tells people to kill babies, which He has done, it is just, good.
God is not controlled by a means, mechanism or rules; He is sovereign. What He says and does is perfect by definition and this partially defines God; that nothing can even be thought that is superior to Him .... no rule, no mechanism.


Christian heretics ... agreed


By His essence. He is perfect (lacks nothing desirable and has everything desirable) by definition. Any belief or opinion contrary to God's essence is heretical I suppose is another way of putting. Since no one's opinions can express an incomprehensible God, I suppose we are all heretics to some extent given the definition I am using.



Arius is heretical if his opinion/belief is contrary to God's essence (who God is).


Arianism maintains that the Son of God was created by the Father and was therefore neither coeternal with the Father, nor co-substantial. Thus, in my opinion Arianism, is heretical as it is not in agreement with God's essence. Now, if Arianism be true, that would make me the heretic in this matter.


In my opinion
Premise 1: Definition of heresy is opinion/belief is contrary to God's essence (who He is, what He says).
Premise 2: Christ is co-eternal as Jesus is the Creator also verifies His deity, because God is portrayed throughout the Bible as the Creator (Genesis 1:1; Psalm 102:25; Isaiah 40:28; 42:5; 45:18; Mark 13:19; Romans 1:25; Ephesians 3:9; Revelation 4:11). MacArther
Premise 3: Arianism maintains that the Son of God was created
Conclusion: Arianism is heretical because premise 3 is false and premise 2 is true.

FastFredy0,

God has revealed His essence in Scripture. Heresy includes more than a violation of God's essence. It includes a rejection of what Scripture requires of all believers.

Scripture is the standard.

Oz

 

[Fastfredy0]

God has revealed His essence in Scripture. Heresy includes more than a violation of God's essence. It includes a rejection of what Scripture requires of all believers.

Agreed

Premise 1: Definition of heresy is opinion/belief is contrary to God's essence (who He is, what He says).

Scripture is the standard.

Agreed ... Scripture reveals 99% of what we know of God. (99% being a subjective estimate)

 

[Walpole]

God determines what is a heresy by His Essence.
His ESSENCE being His attributes as best man can define them keeping in mind His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts.

We are making progress. And who gets to define what God's essence is or is not?

Scripture does not define God's essence. Christ is either homoousios or homoiousios. Who is right? Arius?

When, where and how did God answer this about Himself?

God defines truth, God defines right and wrong. If God tells people to kill babies, which He has done, it is just, good.
God is not controlled by a means, mechanism or rules; He is sovereign. What He says and does is perfect by definition and this partially defines God; that nothing can even be thought that is superior to Him .... no rule, no mechanism.

So God decides but provides no answer, means or mechanism? That leaves you completely in the dark, in total chaos.

Christian heretics ... agreed


By His essence. He is perfect (lacks nothing desirable and has everything desirable) by definition. Any belief or opinion contrary to God's essence is heretical I suppose is another way of putting. Since no one's opinions can express an incomprehensible God, I suppose we are all heretics to some extent given the definition I am using.



Arius is heretical if his opinion/belief is contrary to God's essence (who God is).

Again, who gets to define what God's essence is? I am trying to stick to Arius, but if we fast forward 1200 years from Arius, we get to John Calvin, who also introduced a completely different teaching on the essence of God. Again, how, when and where did God define Himself and answer what is or is not heresy?

There must be a means or mechanism otherwise by saying "God just does" you are just repeating an empty platitude.

Arianism maintains that the Son of God was created by the Father and was therefore neither coeternal with the Father, nor co-substantial. Thus, in my opinion Arianism, is heretical as it is not in agreement with God's essence. Now, if Arianism be true, that would make me the heretic in this matter.


In my opinion
Premise 1: Definition of heresy is opinion/belief is contrary to God's essence (who He is, what He says).
Premise 2: Christ is co-eternal as Jesus is the Creator also verifies His deity, because God is portrayed throughout the Bible as the Creator (Genesis 1:1; Psalm 102:25; Isaiah 40:28; 42:5; 45:18; Mark 13:19; Romans 1:25; Ephesians 3:9; Revelation 4:11). MacArther
Premise 3: Arianism maintains that the Son of God was created
Conclusion: Arianism is heretical because premise 3 is false and premise 2 is true.

I'm not interested in your opinion. You said God Himself determines what is or is not heresy. How, when and where did God declare Arianism a heresy?