why I don't trust trinitarians interpretations

[Anth]

Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God

Fran -

You are interpreting this in accordance with sophistry of traditionalists - read the OT plenty and you will what Jesus meant (as I recall some of the same wording is used of John the B in Jn 1... no citation until I review but I hope you stay present to the phraselogy used in the OT re: the sending of the prophets from God.

I am always open to you points - but this one is pretty straightforward if one spends enuf time in the OT.

Best,
Anth

 

[dadof10]

Who is twisting your words? I am simply pointing out your "Jesus and His Father co-equal" doctrine is false because it is not in the Bible. You are the one who is tryign to avoid the issue. Be a man.

Show us the Scripture. You cannot.

WHERE DID I MAKE THE CLAIM JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE EQUAL? "Be a man"...Show us my words.

You KNOW John 20 says Jesus is God. It doesn't fit with whatever theology someone has taught you, so you just ignore it. OK.

Let me go ahead and save you the trouble of writing your response to this, I'll do it.

You still can't find the Scripture that shows Jesus and God are co-equal. Squak...Polly want a cracker...

 

[francisdesales]

Fran -

You are interpreting this in accordance with sophistry of traditionalists - read the OT plenty and you will what Jesus meant (as I recall some of the same wording is used of John the B in Jn 1... no citation until I review but I hope you stay present to the phraselogy used in the OT re: the sending of the prophets from God.

I am always open to you points - but this one is pretty straightforward if one spends enuf time in the OT.

Best,
Anth

Anth,

How about actually making a point, rather than your cryptic "If you only read the OT, you'd be as smart as me and would understand what Jesus meant"...

That doesn't quite work here...

 

[shad]

WHERE DID I MAKE THE CLAIM JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE EQUAL? "Be a man"...Show us my words.

Are you a trinitarian? what is your claim about the Trinity in your definition? I can prove you are wrong because trinity is man-made doctrine.

thanks.

 

[shad]

Fran -

You are interpreting this in accordance with sophistry of traditionalists - read the OT plenty and you will what Jesus meant (as I recall some of the same wording is used of John the B in Jn 1... no citation until I review but I hope you stay present to the phraselogy used in the OT re: the sending of the prophets from God.

I am always open to you points - but this one is pretty straightforward if one spends enuf time in the OT.

Best,
Anth

Anth,

How about actually making a point, rather than your cryptic "If you only read the OT, you'd be as smart as me and would understand what Jesus meant"...

That doesn't quite work here...

What is your definition of Trinity? I can prove you are unbiblical.

thanks.

 

[shad]

Shad,

Several Scriptural passages have been given in the numerous threads that clearly support the deity of Christ. I have yet to see you give any significant response to those passages, just like you are doing above.

Free, where in the Bible say "Jesus and Father are equal"? This is simple question yet you cannot quote from the Scripture.

thanks.

 

[dadof10]

WHERE DID I MAKE THE CLAIM JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE EQUAL? "Be a man"...Show us my words.

Are you a trinitarian? what is your claim about the Trinity in your definition? I can prove you are wrong because trinity is man-made doctrine.

thanks.

So, I didn't make the claim then, right?

Dude...Try and focus....My view on the Trinity is Irrelevant to our discussion. I'm simply asking you if Jesus is God, that's it.

Are you not understanding the question, or is it that you know, in light of John 20, you would have no choice but to answer in the affirmative, thereby totally destroying your arguments on the nature of God and putting questions in your mind about the heresy you have been taught?

 

[shad]

Dude...Try and focus....My view on the Trinity is Irrelevant to our discussion. I'm simply asking you if Jesus is God, that's it.

Dude,

This is my thread and you dont control, if you want to change the way you want, make your own thread.

Take a look at the OP. I brought two things that Trinitarians claim. I appreciate it if you dont derail the thread.

thanks.

 

[Free]

Free, where in the Bible say "Jesus and Father are equal"? This is simple question yet you cannot quote from the Scripture.

As I stated, several passages of Scripture have been given in support of Jesus and the Father being equal. You have not adequately addressed them so there is no need to go on about it in here.

Take a look at the OP. I brought two things that Trinitarians claim. I appreciate it if you dont derail the thread.

He isn't derailing the thread. His question is at the very center of the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[dadof10]

Dude,

This is my thread and you dont control, if you want to change the way you want, make your own thread.

Take a look at the OP. I brought two things that Trinitarians claim. I appreciate it if you dont derail the thread.

thanks.

:biglol This is hilarious.

Wasn't it you who posted the following a few posts back?

Where exactly did Jesus say He is God? You cannot find Scripture to prove your claim, dude.

So, since JESUS' DIVINITY is within the doctrine of the Trinity and since YOU WERE RESPONDING TO THE TOPIC a few posts back, I think that makes the question fair game, wouldn't you say?

So, go ahead and answer it.....Let me help you out.

I say Jesus is "my Lord and my God", will you respond to my statement the same way Jesus responded to Thomas, or will you stick to your man-made heretical dogma?....or will you change the subject....Hummmm...

 

[francisdesales]

So, since JESUS' DIVINITY is within the doctrine of the Trinity and since YOU WERE RESPONDING TO THE TOPIC a few posts back, I think that makes the question fair game, wouldn't you say?

So, go ahead and answer it.....Let me help you out.

I say Jesus is "my Lord and my God", will you respond to my statement the same way Jesus responded to Thomas, or will you stick to your man-made heretical dogma?....or will you change the subject....Hummmm...

This thread is clearly becoming "why I shouldn't trust a NON-Trinitarian to answer a question"...

 

[shad]

So, since JESUS' DIVINITY is within the doctrine of the Trinity and since YOU WERE RESPONDING TO THE TOPIC a few posts back, I think that makes the question fair game, wouldn't you say?

So, go ahead and answer it.....Let me help you out.

I say Jesus is "my Lord and my God", will you respond to my statement the same way Jesus responded to Thomas, or will you stick to your man-made heretical dogma?....or will you change the subject....Hummmm...

The above quote does not say Jesus is God. You are assuming Thomas is saying JESUS is God. I know all your tricks dude. That's why I am asking you exactly what the Scripture says.

sorry. You still cannot find one.

 

[dadof10]

This thread is clearly becoming "why I shouldn't trust a NON-Trinitarian to answer a question"...

 

[shad]

This thread is clearly becoming "why I shouldn't trust a NON-Trinitarian to answer a question"...

Is that a best you can do?

 

[dadof10]

So, since JESUS' DIVINITY is within the doctrine of the Trinity and since YOU WERE RESPONDING TO THE TOPIC a few posts back, I think that makes the question fair game, wouldn't you say?

So, go ahead and answer it.....Let me help you out.

I say Jesus is "my Lord and my God", will you respond to my statement the same way Jesus responded to Thomas, or will you stick to your man-made heretical dogma?....or will you change the subject....Hummmm...

The above quote does not say Jesus is God. You are assuming Thomas is saying JESUS is God.

I went back and looked. I asked you a whopping 8 times before this simple yes or no question was answered. Sorry, but if this is what you really think, it would have been answered after the first time. I think you have to answer "no" to save face.

I'll do an exegesis on the verses, then you do one. Let's see how you try and worm out of interpreting the PLAIN words of Scripture.

After at first doubting, then seeing with his own eyes the risen Lord...

"Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe." (John (RSV) 20)

Believed what, Shad? The only thing Thomas said was "my Lord and my God". The two times Jesus says the word "believe" in the next two sentences, He can only be referring to Thomas' profession, where he calls Jesus GOD (Theos). Nothing else makes sense.

The word Theos means "God", as in the Creator, 1320 times in Scripture, and according to Thayers, Jn. 20:28 is one of the 1320 times. Thomas is definitely calling Jesus the Creator and Jesus is definitely responding positively to his profession.

Now it's your turn. If you really believe Jn. 20:28 "does not say Jesus is God", then please explain what Thomas means by "my Lord and my God", and what Jesus means when He says "Have you believed because you have seen me...".

I know all your tricks dude.

My "tricks"??? Like reading the plain words of Scripture and holding your feet to the fire, even though you have tried EIGHT times to evade a simple question about Biblical interpretation? Yeah, I'm a tricky guy.

That's why I am asking you exactly what the Scripture says.

Thomas says EXACTLY "My Lord and my God", Jesus says EXACTLY "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.

Those are the facts you have to deal with.

 

[dadof10]

This thread is clearly becoming "why I shouldn't trust a NON-Trinitarian to answer a question"...

Is that a best you can do?

No...I was commenting on Joe's opinion. See above, that's my best. Now let's see what your best exegesis is. Don't wimp out....Dude

 

[shad]

No...I was commenting on Joe's opinion. See above, that's my best. Now let's see what your best exegesis is. Don't wimp out....Dude

I already refuted it. You still cannot find the Scriputre saying Jesus is God, and I know it is not there. Your doctrine is man-made.

take care.

 

[shad]

"Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe." (John (RSV) 20)

Believed what, Shad? The only thing Thomas said was "my Lord and my God". The two times Jesus says the word "believe" in the next two sentences, He can only be referring to Thomas' profession, where he calls Jesus GOD (Theos). Nothing else makes sense.

He is not saying Jesus is God is he? You are only assuming it. Thomas could be praising the Father in Heaven with what He said.

The word Theos means "God", as in the Creator,

2 Corinthians 4:4
In their case, the god/THEOS of this world has blinded the minds of those who do not believe to keep them from seeing the light of the glorious gospel of the Messiah, who is the image of God.

The word "theos" doesn't mean "God as in the Creator." Here is a clear-cut instance where your assumption is 100% wrong.

That's why I am asking you exactly what the Scripture says.

Thomas says EXACTLY "My Lord and my God", Jesus says EXACTLY "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.

Those are the facts you have to deal with.[/quote]
The facts are that Thomas fell at Jesus' feet and said "My Lord and my God." You ASSUME that he was talking to Jesus. It is just as possible that he was addressing God in heaven, NOT Jesus.
Also, read John 20 for another fact:
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples were saying to him, “We have seen the Lord!†But he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.â€Â

What he doubted was that Jesus had risen. Thomas doubted the resurrection until he saw Jesus, then he believed that Jesus had been raised. To say that Jesus was talking about His being God is to take this resurrection account out of context
Those are the facts and the context that you have to deal with.

So, your assumption is not Scriptural, it is only assumption.

 

[Anth]

Anth,

How about actually making a point, rather than your cryptic "If you only read the OT, you'd be as smart as me and would understand what Jesus meant"...

Fran,

Sorry for not being more clear -

The point was the phraseology used in the OT and I belive in Jn 1 re: the sending of the prophets - they too "came from above".

Best,
Anth

 

[francisdesales]

Anth,

How about actually making a point, rather than your cryptic "If you only read the OT, you'd be as smart as me and would understand what Jesus meant"...

Fran,

Sorry for not being more clear -

The point was the phraseology used in the OT and I belive in Jn 1 re: the sending of the prophets - they too "came from above".

Best,
Anth

I think you'll have to include a verse or two to get the context.

I do not recall an OT prophet claiming to be one with the Father, or as I said earlier, "ALL things have been given into my hands by my Father".

Regards