WHY IS THERE EVIL IN THE WORLD?

[Consecrated Life]

What makes the heart be deceitful?

We inherited a deceitful and sinful heart .

 

[GodsGrace]

Free will. What does the Bible say about the origin of sin?

You want and don’t have (that was Adam and Eve for sure)

You don’t have because you don’t ask (again Adam and Eve for sure)

Why do you ask where evil comes from and not love or courage or kindness or anger?

We're discussing this because you stated you knew from where evil begins.
I stated that we cannot know.

Love, courage, kindness come from God.
I know where those originate.

Anger - that's on the evil side so I won't be asking where that originates...I know it's evil.

But we're back at the drawing board.
Adam was told not to eat of the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil.

But he did.
And there was only good in the Garden.
God said everything He created was good.
So why did Adam eat the forbidden fruit?

 

[GodsGrace]

We inherited a deceitful and sinful heart .

This is what I'm getting at...

From WHERE did we inherit a deceitful and sinful heart?

 

[hawkman]

The question is how is this choice made by free will even be possible if everything God made was good?

I'm going to say, right now, that there is no answer to where evil originates.
Calvinists state, rather bluntly, that God created evil.

If this is true (which I do not believe it is) then God is not loves itself (1 John 4:8)
and He is not all-good, merciful, and just.

So there has to be another answer.
I don't believe we know what that answer is.

Evil originates with Satan, but what caused him to fall ? We are missing much of the back story on Satan .

A question has just arisen with me, did Adam hear the conversation between Eve and Satan ?

I am thinking with mankind evil originated in the mind of Eve after a desire was planted by Satan .

 

[Consecrated Life]

This is what I'm getting at...

From WHERE did we inherit a deceitful and sinful heart?

From Adam & Eve

 

[Consecrated Life]

But he did.
And there was only good in the Garden.
God said everything He created was good.
So why did Adam eat the forbidden fruit?

Okay I got where you are going now.
My understanding is that there is not anything wrong with the fruit .
The wrong came in believing that the Love God had bestowed upon was faulty and insufficient .
In believing that God's expression of Love to them for their good was half hearted, towards their ultimate good .
In essence they were calling out God as a liar.
The evil was all theirs .
In addition to your speculation about the nature of the tree itself we are told by that as we speak the way to the tree in the east of the garden is being protected " TO KEEP THE WAY " that those who fully believe God may enter back in .

Gen 3:24
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

 

[for_his_glory]

Genesis 3:1-24; Gen 6:1-8; Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:12-15; James 1:1-18

Man sins by the temptations that are brought before them that causes wickedness to well up and harden their hearts filling them with evil deeds.

Satan has been the tempter since his fall from being cast out from the garden of Eden as pride was found in him who wanted everything that was God's as he became his own god over the nations in whom he weakened. Satan first deceived Adam and Eve who fell away from God being disobedient to His commands, but God gave them to repent, but yet sin entered into the lust of the flesh. We first find this in Cain who hardened his heart against his brother Abel and killed him and sin has carried on in every generation after him.

I will use Esau for an example as God did not hate Esau, but sore displeased with him in his deception of selling his birthright, Genesis 25. God said He also created evil and this is what fell upon Esau as we read in Malachi 1:2-5.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The word translated "evil" is from a Hebrew word kelalah that means adversary, affliction, calamity, distress and misery. This is what God has created and puts on those who He has cursed for their rebellion against Him so they know "I AM" in all sovereignty, Deuteronomy 27:11-26.

Exodus Chapter 7-11 is a witness of the "Great I AM" and what God brought forth in His affliction, calamity, distress and misery on Pharaoh and the Egyptians.

God gave Pharaoh and the Egyptians a chance to repent and turn back to Him, but they rejected God as Pharaoh hardened his heart against God like so many even today do this.


Conclusion:

God created Satan (Just a name we give him as he has many names) like all His created angels as they were as we are created perfect in all our ways until Satan came and weakened the nations (people) tempting man to sin. Man falls away from God seeking the lust of the flesh as in fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry, anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth and deceiving each other. Colossians 3:5-9. This is why there is evil in the world.

 

[miamited]

Hi all,

I think the Scriptures are pretty clear on 'why' there is evil in the world: Man's heart is wicked! Who can know it?

There is evil because man is evil. For all have sinned,...what? No! Not some...ALL have sinned. Sin, when it comes to fruition makes all sorts of evil. The sin of lying creates hate, anger, fear. Hate, anger and fear lead to cross or violent actions. All sin. And all sin begats evil.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We're discussing this because you stated you knew from where evil begins.
I stated that we cannot know.

Love, courage, kindness come from God.
I know where those originate.

Anger - that's on the evil side so I won't be asking where that originates...I know it's evil.

But we're back at the drawing board.
Adam was told not to eat of the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil.

But he did.
And there was only good in the Garden.
God said everything He created was good.
So why did Adam eat the forbidden fruit?

Everything He created was essentially from, or still is actually, energy. That is, everything He created is material. He did not create morals or lack thereof. He did not create darkness although He separated that from light.

You see that love, courage, kindness, etc come from who God is. I asked that question to get you to see that there are powerful realities that have no material substance (they are no made of energy) that were not created. God did not make those.

Now vices (old word for evil or wrong) were not created either. They are the choice to refuse to do the virtues God chooses to do. To try to pin down where they came from is like to pin down where the love you have for your dearest cane from. It came from you because of who you are, the kind of woman you are. We understand how thoughts or love or courage comes from us at points in time and THAT is the explanation because we have inside knowledge of that process that produced observable outcomes.

You are a person with power to create good, for example, by choosing good. This makes sense in real life and in the Bible. But even generally evil people have done good at times by their choices. How can one explain this except free will? What is more, We know why we, followers of Jesus, occasionally do wrong. Free will is the answer. It’s not a substance.

Now it occurs to me that if a person has a theology whereby all human actions is orchestrated by God, then they won’t be able to understand where evil comes from. If a person equally thinks we have a material substance born in us called “sin nature” (no where in the Bible) then they also won’t understand where evil comes from. They have to ask where that “sin nature” from Adam resulting from obeying an evil entity came from as though no free will choice was involved and evil was never possible. The question itself assumes evil wasn’t ever possible until something happened and you want to know that something.

The assumption is in error and precludes understanding. If one has untrue assumptions, one cannot understand further conundrums based on something untrue in the first place. There are a few theologies that assume facts not in evidence which lead the adherent into intellectual corners from which is no answer. The best choice is to love truth, choose truth, and abandon cherished views that are not true. This is loving God with the mind.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We inherited a deceitful and sinful heart .

There is no basis for that in scripture or reality. God actually said good things of some people in the Bible and did not indicate by his words that he thinks we inherited a deceitful and sinful heart. He did say that from the point of youth, that is teenage years, the tendency is to do evil. That is there. But babies are not sinful and Jesus said Heaven is comprised of those who are like the little children. Since Heaven is not comprised of deceitful and sinful people, it cannot be born into every person.

Our Bible says we sin because we do not have. We do not have because we do not ask. If we do ask, we ask with wrong motives so we do not receive. Now I know that this view places the burden for our sin squarely upon our own shoulders and we cannot blame some sin nature for which we are not responsible. But since we will be judged by the deeds done in the body, what is written in the books, it is very likely that "you had a sin nature you cannot help" will not be written there.

It is scary but it is really a better view. You just accept the wrong choices you made, repent and make right with God and man and one is free. It is better to realize you sin because you want something you cannot righteously have than blame Adam. The latter is really a cage.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

This is what I'm getting at...

From WHERE did we inherit a deceitful and sinful heart?

It was birthed in us as we continually chose to avoid the painful truth and try to deceive. We made ourselves into sinful creatures with a sinful heart over and over again. It was always possible to refuse to do God's will from the creation of living beings outside of God.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Evil originates with Satan, but what caused him to fall ? We are missing much of the back story on Satan .

A question has just arisen with me, did Adam hear the conversation between Eve and Satan ?

I am thinking with mankind evil originated in the mind of Eve after a desire was planted by Satan .

It was birthed as Satan was the first to choose to disobey God and on a grand scale. The story of Satan is simple. He wanted what he could not have. He decided to think well of himself instead of acknowledging the Almighty is God. This is possible and needs no origin same as darkness needs no origin. It is the absence of light. Evil was always possible.

Lets try another tact, is it possible for God to do evil? I mean could He choose to do evil? Now you have a problem, because we believe that with God all things are possible and so one is going to say that God is not ABLE to do evil because of a lack in His abilities. No one will say God lacks that ability. So we have to admit that we believe God is certainly able to do evil. What does this mean? It means that evil was always possible before creation. It is the absence of doing good and it was always possible even if not realized.

Now to explain God, the saying goes that "God can do anything" which means that, of course, my paragraph above fits. However (and this is a big however) God only WANTS to do good. So when someone says to me "God can do anything," I say, "but all that He WANTs to do is good." Our Bible, btw, says that "nothing is impossible for God" which is not the same thing as God can do anything. Maybe this explanation helps. God could always have done evil but does not because of who He is which means that evil was always possible as it is the opposite of choosing good. There is no point in time or particular act when evil came into the realm of the possible.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Okay I got where you are going now.
My understanding is that there is not anything wrong with the fruit .
The wrong came in believing that the Love God had bestowed upon was faulty and insufficient .
In believing that God's expression of Love to them for their good was half hearted, towards their ultimate good .
In essence they were calling out God as a liar.
The evil was all theirs .
In addition to your speculation about the nature of the tree itself we are told by that as we speak the way to the tree in the east of the garden is being protected " TO KEEP THE WAY " that those who fully believe God may enter back in .

Gen 3:24
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

It is really better to stick to the story as told in Genesis rather than make up alternative answers. Satan offered them the temptation which was the same one he took, to be like God. Desire to be like God, knowing good and evil (which is not all of what is required to be like God) was born in her heart. She saw that the fruit look delicious to taste. So with all of this temptation, she just took it and ate.

They did not think the love they had from God was faulty. Choosing evil is probably never based on a lack of being loved. Those are two different matters that are not connected. They did not question God's love or anything in God. They wanted to BE God in some way. This is still the temptation Satan offers men today in some form. It is really better to stick to the exact details. I am sure if they were on this site both of them would deny that they thought God's love was insufficient. That was not the reason they sinned. It was not God's fault for not communicating love sufficiently.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I can't believe you're saying this D.
You say God didn't create good.
He said everything He created in Genesis was good.

Yes, every material thing He created in the Garden was good. Good in this is the adjective describing the material things he created. They were all good. But the concept of good itself was not created at that time. It always was. God is good. The Bible says so. It does not say "God created good and decided to be that." Good emanates from who he is. He did not create love nor courage nor kindness nor any of those things. He did not create morals that did not exist before he created the concept.

And could you explain the difference between creating morality and morality emanating from Him?
God IS morality.

This might require some more discussion as I am not sure how to answer this. Your position is evil was created at some point in time and you want to know when any why. My position is no morals (or subsequent lack thereof) were ever created as they always were a reflection of who God is, His character and being. They cannot be created, neither good nor evil nor any of the other virtues and vices. If God were to create a moral such as good, it is like creating a idea. We do not say we create the concept of an idea, we say we need or want or have an idea. The idea is already assumed to be possible. Or similarly, "let's create a thought" cannot be done because the thought of creating a thought is already there to begin with. One has to already be thinking to think of thinking of a thought. The thing to be created in the suggestion already is. God did not create good nor the lack of good because it was already there. He created matter which was not already there and the adjective he used to describe it was "good" because He already knew what "good" was and it was a match. This is difficult to communicate so sorry if it was not clear.

But certainly this morality has been transferred to man's concept of natural law.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What makes the heart be deceitful?

Because it is desirable to pursue our own pleasure even at the expense of others.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The question is how is this choice made by free will even be possible if everything God made was good?

I'm going to say, right now, that there is no answer to where evil originates.
Calvinists state, rather bluntly, that God created evil.

If this is true (which I do not believe it is) then God is not loves itself (1 John 4:8)
and He is not all-good, merciful, and just.

So there has to be another answer.
I don't believe we know what that answer is.

Calvinism is a direct assault on the character of God so they have no problem attributing evil to God.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

But certainly this morality has been transferred to man's concept of natural law.

When a man comes if the age to understand moral good and evil, it us the natural moral law we all know without learning it.

 

[Consecrated Life]

It is really better to stick to the story as told in Genesis rather than make up alternative answers. Satan offered them the temptation which was the same one he took, to be like God. Desire to be like God, knowing good and evil (which is not all of what is required to be like God) was born in her heart. She saw that the fruit look delicious to taste. So with all of this temptation, she just took it and ate.

They did not think the love they had from God was faulty. Choosing evil is probably never based on a lack of being loved. Those are two different matters that are not connected. They did not question God's love or anything in God. They wanted to BE God in some way. This is still the temptation Satan offers men today in some form. It is really better to stick to the exact details. I am sure if they were on this site both of them would deny that they thought God's love was insufficient. That was not the reason they sinned. It was not God's fault for not communicating love sufficiently.

If they thought that God's Love & Care for them was all in all for their good they would not have disobeyed His specific instruction to them.
They choose instead to believe the lie about God .

 

[Consecrated Life]

We inherited a deceitful and sinful heart .

There is no basis for that in scripture or reality.

God has declared the natural condition of your heart and my heart:

Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

How do you think you and I came to have a desperately wicked heart if we were not born with one ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God.God has declared the natural condition of your heart and my heart:

Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Where is the word “natural”
in there? How come God said, “the LORD said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man’s heart is evil from his youth.” How come He said from adolescence and not infancy? How come Jesus said, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God.” How can the Kingdom of God belong to evil hearted people (children?)

How do you think you and I came to have a desperately wicked heart if we were not born with one ?

We want and don’t have. We don’t have because we don’t ask. We ask and don’t receive because we ask with wrong motives.