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Why the Church Gathering Has Changed

The early church was raised in this teaching: "What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up" (1 Cor 14:26 NIV).

The Corinthians were taught that everyone has a ministry and each ought to exercise that ministry when they gather as the church.

I wish I were young enough to research the reasons why the church moved from an every-member ministry to the prominence of one person (male) to lead the church. Are you aware of any publications/research that can shed some light on this?

Blessings in Christ,
Oz
I really wish we could discuss this subject matter.

The title seems somehow to warp the discussion.

The ways the title changes the discussion?:
To many spiritual gifts have stopped / changed.

The whole education of the Corinthian church was really about how Jewish spiritual gifts were continued and moved into the Jewish and gentile church and used (especially sons and daughters).

The prophets used the spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12 . You just have to search diligently to find examples.
actually I have posted this somewhere before.

OzSpen your text question is almost totally about spiritual gifts.

Lowest gift tongues:
Finger message on wall no one could interpret .
Daniel gives message and interpretation.

I suppose that is for just you. Many will say where is the tongue used it was a finger writing on the wall. Daniels tongue spoke the written words.

Word of knowledge is simple to find
Word of wisdom is simple to find.

Others can really do this if allowed.Rejection of Old Testament continuation seems to be a major stumbling block.

Then Jesus used all the spiritual gifts his whole ministry. To continue his examples would allow easy mention of spiritual gifts.

I can really get in trouble here.
Parables are an unknown message without interpretation. The disciples asked what the parable of the sower meant. Jesus gave the meaning.

Will this be allowed?

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
for his glory:

"1Cor 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Order of the Church that Christ is the head of His body."



So according to, "for his glory", the straight gate, and narrow way, ( which few find) is churches, that state or show, they are founded on the Apostles and prophets, and have teachers, healings, governments and even tongues.



That would be fine, except there is the matter of the wide path to destruction, that many are on, and the reason they are on it.

Looking at Matthew 7, the reason is stated immediately by Christ, after the words of the straight gate. It is because of many false prophets coming in the name of Christ, to deceive those many people (in churches) who think they are on the narrow path when they are on the wide one ( not straight, but crooked for not hearing these warnings given, right there.)

The false prophets are wolves, coming in sheep's clothing ( to devour the faith of the sheep)

God had also warned, the church should have been guarded, as it was purchased with His own blood, but after Apostle Paul died, of course the wolves entered the flock, and men speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after their own churches. ( otherwise how does it make sense that many are on the wide path to destruction, and how many false prophets rose up to deceive those, very, many.





Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.


Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.





Regarding the straight path for our feet, is peace and holiness with all men, or no man shall see the Lord. It is looking dilligently to not fail of the grace of God( fearing God at all times that many fail of the grace of God as all warned about and taught) as many are defiled from 2000 years ago.

For there to be no fornicator, as Esau who sold his birthright for a piece of meat, and found no place of repentance( that is failing of the grace of God, which many are the same defiled)




Hebrews 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.




That is why, a better way was shown, than the church that was foretold to be corrupted, which you keep ignoring all of the testimony, but that is entirely against you, and will not stop the testimony, that has been fully told. ( this is the wisdom of the Lord that showed the better way so we see He kept the church secret and hidden away from all the world that is corrupted and has nothing but corruption)





1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and YET I SHEW UNTO YOU A MORE EXCELLENT WAY.




Charity exceeds tongues, and prophecy, and all knowledge that can be taught.





1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.



Charity edifies, and if we do not put on charity, we do not believe all things, we will be puffed up ( knowledge puffs up and charity edifies) we will seek our own ( be selfish and not laying our lives down) we will tbhink evil, whatever we are taught by teachers knowledge, we will rejoice in iniquity, and not in the truth, we wont bear all and hope all, and endure all, as charity never fails, but tongues and prophecies do ( as did teachers who are not wolves/the many false prophets who rose up after Paul departed, to deceive many.)





1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
 
for his glory:

"1Cor 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Order of the Church that Christ is the head of His body."



So according to, "for his glory", the straight gate, and narrow way, ( which few find) is churches, that state or show, they are founded on the Apostles and prophets, and have teachers, healings, governments and even tongues.



That would be fine, except there is the matter of the wide path to destruction, that many are on, and the reason they are on it.

Looking at Matthew 7, the reason is stated immediately by Christ, after the words of the straight gate. It is because of many false prophets coming in the name of Christ, to deceive those many people (in churches) who think they are on the narrow path when they are on the wide one ( not straight, but crooked for not hearing these warnings given, right there.)

The false prophets are wolves, coming in sheep's clothing ( to devour the faith of the sheep)

God had also warned, the church should have been guarded, as it was purchased with His own blood, but after Apostle Paul died, of course the wolves entered the flock, and men speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after their own churches. ( otherwise how does it make sense that many are on the wide path to destruction, and how many false prophets rose up to deceive those, very, many.





Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.


Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.





Regarding the straight path for our feet, is peace and holiness with all men, or no man shall see the Lord. It is looking dilligently to not fail of the grace of God( fearing God at all times that many fail of the grace of God as all warned about and taught) as many are defiled from 2000 years ago.

For there to be no fornicator, as Esau who sold his birthright for a piece of meat, and found no place of repentance( that is failing of the grace of God, which many are the same defiled)




Hebrews 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.




That is why, a better way was shown, than the church that was foretold to be corrupted, which you keep ignoring all of the testimony, but that is entirely against you, and will not stop the testimony, that has been fully told. ( this is the wisdom of the Lord that showed the better way so we see He kept the church secret and hidden away from all the world that is corrupted and has nothing but corruption)





1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and YET I SHEW UNTO YOU A MORE EXCELLENT WAY.




Charity exceeds tongues, and prophecy, and all knowledge that can be taught.





1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.



Charity edifies, and if we do not put on charity, we do not believe all things, we will be puffed up ( knowledge puffs up and charity edifies) we will seek our own ( be selfish and not laying our lives down) we will tbhink evil, whatever we are taught by teachers knowledge, we will rejoice in iniquity, and not in the truth, we wont bear all and hope all, and endure all, as charity never fails, but tongues and prophecies do ( as did teachers who are not wolves/the many false prophets who rose up after Paul departed, to deceive many.)





1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
The Church deals with the lost unbelievers, the uneducated, un gifted, till Jesus comes again. In a church service you may have mental cases, diseased, extreme poor, pagans, a mixed multitude. Are we going to send most of them to doctors, lawyers, health professionals, etc.? The spiritual gifts mention a lot of the needs I mentioned.

At the time Jesus returns, our need for spiritual gifts is over. Judgement throne gifts will operate to open secrets of mens hearts. My real heart will be laid bare. Till that day spiritual gifts are needed to look into hearts,

Till the day of the Lord, perfection is absent. There is change at the last trump. Christians will be killed for their testimony. To deny the power comes from outside ourselves, is to deny how we actually operate.

Peter would not survive on this website. I feel like Peter. Sin at times, day the wrong thing, run for cover, wimp out, but I do know correction and forgiveness exists.

As long as humans exist the spiritual gifts will exist. Deny the spiritual gifts? Problems exist because of their use.

eddif
 
The church of God, was the Shepherd seeking His own lost sheep.

They had education from the Shepherd( not from anyone else) and the gift given was they wont be meat for anyone any more.


Poor have an answer from Jesus, as it is a free gift( His blood) church buildings with wolves inside, only offer to take your life and blood off of you.

If anyone has mental problems, they have another cure for that( again from God and not from man) it is the mind of Christ.

If anyone is deseased, God strengthens them and the deceiver shepherds never strethened the dieased is testified and they continued( as they became wolves as I showed)



Ezekiel 34:4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.



Do pagans go to churches, yes they do, and they remain as they went through the door.

The proof of that is, they live lives with lawyers, and doctors, as they never got faith in the places they sought it. ( God calls us away from the wolves not to them, but the wolves think they can speak words to trick others, and they are revealed fully answered)
 
At the time Jesus returns, our need for spiritual gifts is over. Judgement throne gifts will operate to open secrets of mens hearts. My real heart will be laid bare. Till that day spiritual gifts are needed to look into hearts,
You are denying all the testimony of God, and are not convincing anyone, while I m here.


1 Corinthians 14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
 
Till the day of the Lord, perfection is absent. There is change at the last trump.
Perfect fruit, is the fruit that remains( fruit unto life eternal)



Luke 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
 
Peter would not survive on this website. I feel like Peter. Sin at times, day the wrong thing, run for cover, wimp out, but I do know correction and forgiveness exists.
Peter didn't say the wrong thing, nor run for cover, or wimp out.

Unless you mean before he received the Spirit and was endued with power from on high, then to no longer far man, but to rather obey God until they lost their lives and that was through speaking the right words to the wrong ears always.



Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Acts 4:29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,

Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
 
Peter didn't say the wrong thing, nor run for cover, or wimp out.

Unless you mean before he received the Spirit and was endued with power from on high, then to no longer far man, but to rather obey God until they lost their lives and that was through speaking the right words to the wrong ears always.



Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Acts 4:29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,

Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Peter:

Galatians 2:11 kjv
11. But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15. We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians is beyond pentecost
Galatians is beyond gentile inclusion?

I am not against Peter. We all can mess up. I look at Peter and see he deals with his errors. I am encouraged when by the time the Jerusalem councel meets he has his head on straight.

If I mess up I have to work through my sin too.

eddif
 
That is why, a better way was shown, than the church that was foretold to be corrupted, which you keep ignoring all of the testimony, but that is entirely against you, and will not stop the testimony, that has been fully told. ( this is the wisdom of the Lord that showed the better way so we see He kept the church secret and hidden away from all the world that is corrupted and has nothing but corruption)
A better way is showing others the love of Christ by allowing the light of Christ that is within you to shine out to the nations as we lift up and edify one another by the love Christ being that example of Christ to the nations. Jesus never kept the church secret, but that the mysteries of God's word is only to those who have Spiritual ears to receive His truths. From the time of Adam there has always been wolves in sheep's clothing setting out to deceive the nations. If we are not Spiritually equipped in the Spiritual things of God then Satan will devour us.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
 
Peter:

Galatians 2:11 kjv
11. But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15. We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians is beyond pentecost
Galatians is beyond gentile inclusion?

I am not against Peter. We all can mess up. I look at Peter and see he deals with his errors. I am encouraged when by the time the Jerusalem councel meets he has his head on straight.

If I mess up I have to work through my sin too.

eddif
Amen :salute
 
I really wish we could discuss this subject matter.

The title seems somehow to warp the discussion.

The ways the title changes the discussion?:
To many spiritual gifts have stopped / changed.
Church first off how many have opened up a church from start? NeXT how man pastors is in here? the title is "

"Why the Church Gathering Has Changed" / Church attendance once again man is trying to improve on God perfect plan // look at the book of acts first thing day of Pentecost they was one mind one accord.. some place else in acts they had all things in common.​

the church grew under personation they prayed and the place was shaken/stirred then we Find the Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved.​

i see all this discussion on gifts what is the gifts for? edifying the Body of Christ . what i see in the post is gifts gifts gifts . does the Church worship the Gifts or the giver of the Gifts? .​

for a church to strive it takes 1. folks to attend.. when the doors are open.. 2. it takes folks with a mind to work... (so WE built the wall ) the key ingredient is the power of the holy spirit ye shall be endued with Power after the HolyGhost shall come upon you. .​

i reopened a Church that had been closed for months.. it had Ichabod written all over it. to this day. were still a work in progress . compared to another pastor i am doing great. one Sunday he only had 3 .
there is no one certain formula other than the Lord has to be in it.
we stay out of it. Church attendance took a dive when covid hit
 
Church first off how many have opened up a church from start? NeXT how man pastors is in here? the title is "

"Why the Church Gathering Has Changed" / Church attendance once again man is trying to improve on God perfect plan // look at the book of acts first thing day of Pentecost they was one mind one accord.. some place else in acts they had all things in common.​

the church grew under personation they prayed and the place was shaken/stirred then we Find the Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved.​

i see all this discussion on gifts what is the gifts for? edifying the Body of Christ . what i see in the post is gifts gifts gifts . does the Church worship the Gifts or the giver of the Gifts? .​

for a church to strive it takes 1. folks to attend.. when the doors are open.. 2. it takes folks with a mind to work... (so WE built the wall ) the key ingredient is the power of the holy spirit ye shall be endued with Power after the HolyGhost shall come upon you. .​

i reopened a Church that had been closed for months.. it had Ichabod written all over it. to this day. were still a work in progress . compared to another pastor i am doing great. one Sunday he only had 3 .
there is no one certain formula other than the Lord has to be in it.
we stay out of it. Church attendance took a dive when covid hit
True story, (skeletons in the closet) my husband and I attended a church with great preaching, but the Pastor in whom everyone loved decided to give up the church (for the wrong reasons) and take a secular job in another state. The church fell apart because most of those who attended regularly were Pastor followers and not followers of Christ. It's like the Pastor became their God.

One of the assistant Pastors took over as lead Pastor and even though he was very knowledgeable in the word attendance started dropping until finances caused the church to lose the building. We were devasted at this, but the Pastor started holding services in his own home on Sundays with the hand full of us that supported him. Members grew, not the legal membership put on record, but what God added to the church. We outgrew the Pastors house and rented out the basement of a Christian book store forming a new church that God continued to add to and served for the needs of the community.

God was truly blessing His ministry as we put Christ above everything we did for Him, but, there's always a but, the old Pastor came back to town. Long story short all those who what I like to call "Pastor followers" left the church and went back to Him. Unfortunately this caused financial lose in order to pay the Pastor and maintain the rent and utilities so we decided it was time to close the doors as the Pastor was taking no income and was trying to pay everything himself strapping his own family. We on the board decided this can not happen and decided to shut the doors and go back to having Bible studies in each others homes, but that didn't last very long as there were only a few of us left and the Pastor had to take a job in order to dig out from under the debt he put his family under trying to keep the doors of the church opened, which left him very little time for studying and preparing for Bible study, which we all understood as he was wore out after working all day and everyone's schedules had changed and could not find a right time to gather together.

Here is the kicker. The old Pastor that came back to town could not hold his ministry together as he lost his first love (God) because of skeletons in the closet ended up retiring and lost all his members that followed after the man instead of following after Jesus as some went elsewhere and some just gave up going anywhere.

The moral of this true story is the church gathering is changing as others follow the man instead of following Christ as the spirit of Jezebel runs rampant in many churches with deceptive doctrines of devils changing truth into lies deceiving the congregation.

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
 
True story, (skeletons in the closet) my husband and I attended a church with great preaching, but the Pastor in whom everyone loved decided to give up the church (for the wrong reasons) and take a secular job in another state. The church fell apart because most of those who attended regularly were Pastor followers and not followers of Christ. It's like the Pastor became their God.

One of the assistant Pastors took over as lead Pastor and even though he was very knowledgeable in the word attendance started dropping until finances caused the church to lose the building. We were devasted at this, but the Pastor started holding services in his own home on Sundays with the hand full of us that supported him. Members grew, not the legal membership put on record, but what God added to the church. We outgrew the Pastors house and rented out the basement of a Christian book store forming a new church that God continued to add to and served for the needs of the community.

God was truly blessing His ministry as we put Christ above everything we did for Him, but, there's always a but, the old Pastor came back to town. Long story short all those who what I like to call "Pastor followers" left the church and went back to Him. Unfortunately this caused financial lose in order to pay the Pastor and maintain the rent and utilities so we decided it was time to close the doors as the Pastor was taking no income and was trying to pay everything himself strapping his own family. We on the board decided this can not happen and decided to shut the doors and go back to having Bible studies in each others homes, but that didn't last very long as there were only a few of us left and the Pastor had to take a job in order to dig out from under the debt he put his family under trying to keep the doors of the church opened, which left him very little time for studying and preparing for Bible study, which we all understood as he was wore out after working all day and everyone's schedules had changed and could not find a right time to gather together.

Here is the kicker. The old Pastor that came back to town could not hold his ministry together as he lost his first love (God) because of skeletons in the closet ended up retiring and lost all his members that followed after the man instead of following after Jesus as some went elsewhere and some just gave up going anywhere.

The moral of this true story is the church gathering is changing as others follow the man instead of following Christ as the spirit of Jezebel runs rampant in many churches with deceptive doctrines of devils changing truth into lies deceiving the congregation.

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Im not disagreement as I have seen that to a degree , however a pastor can lead and direct his church and said gifted persons called are blessings .

I'm not saying these replace Jesus only that at times when they retire,pass away or are called elsewhere.the local body isn't the same.

My own church founder was a uniter ,the current pastor is the same way and has connections to other churches to team up.
 
Im not disagreement as I have seen that to a degree , however a pastor can lead and direct his church and said gifted persons called are blessings .

I'm not saying these replace Jesus only that at times when they retire,pass away or are called elsewhere.the local body isn't the same.

My own church founder was a uniter ,the current pastor is the same way and has connections to other churches to team up.
Where I live the population is around 3020 people and there are over 50 churches in this community. Just imagine if all those churches gathered in unity of the Spirit as one church united in the doctrines of Christ like the first churches the Apostles began to establish then there would be a greater outpouring of the Holy Spirit through out this little town and possibly the high crime rate would go down.
 
Where I live the population is around 3020 people and there are over 50 churches in this community. Just imagine if all those churches gathered in unity of the Spirit as one church united in the doctrines of Christ like the first churches the Apostles began to establish then there would be a greater outpouring of the Holy Spirit through out this little town and possibly the high crime rate would go down.
While that's not unusual or even new .I wouldn't find most modern worship services my style .while I wouldn't leave my church should they go that route but that's another thread .by that I mean Rock concert type service music and lighting and soundboard .a laymen who is gifted to sing but isn't a full time musician wouldn't find use in that .I see a problem with that .

Small and secondary issues are gonna make fences and that's why we see that in part .

Village of Vero pop in 1919 at charter within walking distance as I can and I have walked to them all.

St.helens,rcc,community church was across from. Two other churches in the women's club ,the first Baptist church ,the Lutheran church ,now the county library ,and first united Methodist church
 
Vero had 43 people within what is called original town Edgewood that made the village. The church In Edgewood came a bit later
 
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

But, have you ever been involved with starting a new church and all that it involves?
Yes. I was the founding member of two churches.
 
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