Why was Jesus Baptized in water and ....Holy Spirit?

[Deborah13]

All though the commandment was not from the law of Moses but an amendment to it, it was a commandment of God introduced by John the Baptizer, therefore Jesus had to obey the command or he would not be righteous (the seriousness of non compliance of this command can be found in Luke 7:30), this is also a lesson that ALL commands must be done to "fulfill righteousness", this is affirmed by the fact that the moment Jesus came out of the water was the first time recorded of God's public announcement "this is My Son" and by fulfilling all commands "of whom I am well pleased".

But too, this baptism of John (The forerunner of Christ) was not the same baptism of Christ, it was an amendment to the law of Moses and waxed old by Christs law but still under Christ's law baptism fulfills righteousness (it wasn't called forerunner for nothing), just like when Jesus was baptized and the spirit of the Lord descended upon him like a dove, we to receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

Good scripture, so the Jews were told to be baptized by John in the name of Jesus Christ. Why do you think God told the Jews to do this?

I don't think Jesus was baptisted into His own name, it doesn't make sense to me??

When God proclaimed that Jesus was His son, do you think the Jews present would understand that He was the Messiah, the Christ.

 

[thightower]

I just did a word search in biblegateway.com. I used baptize, baptized, and baptism, the first time it showed up was in Matthew with John the baptist.

 

[Webb]

Hi Deborah13

I don't think rrowell meant that the Jews were baptized by John the Baptism in the name of Christ (if I understand your post ) but I shall let rrowell say. The Jews on the day of Pentecost were indeed baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38) and that for the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[thightower]

With the word showing up first in Matthew with John the Baptist. It had to be the message for John to preach, paving the way of Jesus and a symbol of his life on earth.

 

[Deborah13]

Good scripture, so the Jews were told to be baptized by John in the name of Jesus Christ. Why do you think God told the Jews to do this?

I don't think Jesus was baptisted into His own name, it doesn't make sense to me??

When God proclaimed that Jesus was His son, do you think the Jews present would understand that He was the Messiah, the Christ.

No John's baptism was the one for repentence so Jesus baptism would have been for repentence?

 

[Deborah13]

Hi Deborah13

I don't think rrowell meant that the Jews were baptized by John the Baptism in the name of Christ (if I understand your post ) but I shall let rrowell say. The Jews on the day of Pentecost were indeed baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38) and that for the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

rrowell gave me Luke 7:30 and as I read that it was talking about God instructing Jews to be baptisted by John.

 

[rrowell]

Good scripture, so the Jews were told to be baptized by John in the name of Jesus Christ. Why do you think God told the Jews to do this?

I don't think Jesus was baptisted into His own name, it doesn't make sense to me??

I don't think so either, and I don't believe I said that. I said the baptism of John was a commandment from God through John, therefore under the old law (and for Jesus to be perfect) He had to obey this commandment, although he had no sins to remit, it was a command, therefore must be obeyed, therefore the reason Jesus did it.

When God proclaimed that Jesus was His son, do you think the Jews present would understand that He was the Messiah, the Christ.

No, when God proclaimed for the first time Jesus was His Son (this is the first recording of God placing this description upon Jesus) that by his words "in whom I am well pleased" confirmed his acceptance of the act fulfilling all righteousness.

It was John on this day Jesus was baptized announced for the first time that this Jesus would be the Christ.:

John 1:29-33 (KJV)
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

 

[rrowell]

rrowell gave me Luke 7:30 and as I read that it was talking about God instructing Jews to be baptisted by John.

Deborah,

You are miss understanding the use of the quote I used of Luke 7:30, I was explaining when I used it that it was (under the old law while Jesus was alive) that it was a command of God to be baptized, the reason Jesus did it.

I used Luke 7:30 as evidence that to not obey the command was against the council of God, therefore considered a sin, hence a command Jesus (even though he was sinless and had no need for remittance of them) it was indeed a command, and against the council of God to not do so:

Luke 7:29-30 (KJV)
29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Had Jesus not been baptized by the baptism of John, he would have been just like the Pharisees and Lawyers that "rejected the counsel of God" not being baptized of John.

 

[heymikey80]

Yes, I was in the baptist church too when I first got saved.

I just thought do we really know why Jesus was baptisted.

There're a number of reasons that converge: Jesus had at least one reason, but it doesn't seem limited to one reason.

Romans 6 describes a reason that's very hard to translate. "baptized" is actually a metaphorical word for "killed", in Greek. While it certainly also means some kind of water ritual, it's also the word for dying under distress.

Paul says something which makes it telling: that our baptism into Christ is a baptism unto His death. On that reasoning, Jesus' baptism is His own dedication to His Crucifixion.

But the most obvious one is the covenantal one. Baptism in John was a dedication to God's will. With baptism Jesus is dedicating Himself to the task of redeeming us. To do so He institutes His baptism, bringing us in union with Himself.

 

[Davies]

Hi Deborah13,

The point was brought up to fulfill all righteousness, but why does Jesus need to fulfill all righteousness? Isn't Jesus God? He is righteousness. In looking for a verse that might explain why Jesus was baptized, I found 1 Corinthians 1:30

1 Corinthians 1:30

New King James Version (NKJV)

30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—



Jesus became all of these things, wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption. He was our representative. John's baptism was a baptism of repentance, a turning to God. Jesus didn't need to repent Himself, but because He was representing us, He needed to be baptized. Why did Jesus have to die on a cross? To fulfill all righteousness. Summarized in one verse here it is:
2 Corinthians 5:21

New King James Version (NKJV)

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.



Jesus, though sinless, suffered the sinner's death, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. Our sin is imputed to Him, His righteousness is imputed to us. Without Jesus' righteousness, we don't stand a prayer in getting to Heaven. With man, it is impossible, but with God, all things are possible!

Matthew 19:24-26

New King James Version (NKJV)

24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.â€
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?â€
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.â€


- Davies

 

[BornAgain]

1) I would like a discussion a to WHY Jesus was baptized in water.

2) What was the significance of the dove?


It seems like many times threads become discussions about baptism in water. What it does, etc. So I'm sure this thread will go the way of looking at us again. But first I like to consider why Jesus was baptized.

Hi Deborah13,

This is what I have learned and studied about Jesus' baptism...

The baptism of Jesus was a duty, not only of Jesus, but it was also the duty of John to baptize Jesus; since it was the duty of John to baptize Jesus, Jesus is ready to help John do his duty; There are two aspects of baptism; first, it was an act in connection with the remission of sin, and an act of obedience to a positive command of God. Jesus had no sin to be forgiven, but he must obey the command of God; "though he was a Son, but learned obedience by the things which he suffered" Heb 5:8. Jesus here began to learn obedience to God's will. (Which we should obey, also. He is setting an example for us to obey).

And he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him.—Jesus saw the Holy Spirit coming upon him; it seems from the text that the vision was to Jesus alone, but John was also a witness to it John 1:32. This was to John the sign by which the Messiah should be recognized. It was visible only to Jesus and John; The dove was an ancient symbol of purity and innocence, and was so adopted by Jesus on one occasion. Matt 10:16. Luke says, "descended in a bodily form," which seems to settle the question.

 

[Deborah13]

Mat 3:17



And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

we see that our friend "rrowell" left out an important word?
"beloved"

Lets see who else left that word out?

Mat 4:3



And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Funny how they both seemed to miss this most important word?

Yes, satan wants us to forget that word. Jesus didn't fall for it, He KNEW this idenity as the Son.

We need to remember who we are in Christ. We are beloved too.

Just like the shepard boy/King was God's beloved.

We love Him because He loved us first.

Thanks Mitspa,what a comforting thing to think of first thing in the morning.

 

[BornAgain]

Mat 3:17

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

we see that our friend "rrowell" left out an important word?
"beloved"

Lets see who else left that word out?

Mat 4:3

And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Funny how they both seemed to miss this most important word?

What does these quotes have to do with Jesus' baptism?

 

[Deborah13]

Deborah,

You are miss understanding the use of the quote I used of Luke 7:30, I was explaining when I used it that it was (under the old law while Jesus was alive) that it was a command of God to be baptized, the reason Jesus did it.

I used Luke 7:30 as evidence that to not obey the command was against the council of God, therefore considered a sin, hence a command Jesus (even though he was sinless and had no need for remittance of them) it was indeed a command, and against the council of God to not do so:

Luke 7:29-30 (KJV)
29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Had Jesus not been baptized by the baptism of John, he would have been just like the Pharisees and Lawyers that "rejected the counsel of God" not being baptized of John.

I can't think of one time that God just asks someone to do something just because.
But then I have had my coffee yet. There's usually a reason for everything that's done. I realize why you used John 7:30 but don't you find it interesting at all that God would even ask them to do this water washing.
Remember in the temple when Jesus was starting to eat with the Pharisees and whomever else was there. They asked Him why He did not wash. They did this as a law ritual. They washed their hands and their heads (poured water over them as in pouring living water, the Holy Spirit) cleansing their sinning hands and minds. Jesus did not do this and they asked Him why.

 

[smaller]

1) I would like a discussion a to WHY Jesus was baptized in water.

2) What was the significance of the dove?


It seems like many times threads become discussions about baptism in water. What it does, etc. So I'm sure this thread will go the way of looking at us again. But first I like to consider why Jesus was baptized.

There are two approaches to Word. Literal and allegorical.

Some will view water baptism as their external obedience matter i.e. they themselves perform X and then they attach some benefit unto themselves for their action.

The allegorical arena is much more satisfying. Everything that men and women of God did in the text contains allegorical Spiritual matters that are patterned and repetitive and quite simple to perceive with some basic 'internal' groundwork. But that door to understanding is closed Divinely and on purpose to many and will remain that way.

A very easy matter as it pertains to Jesus' baptism. John the Baptist was prophesied of long before his arrival. His message was repentance unto Israel prepare for the arrival of our Lord. The SYMBOLISM that was attached to that matter was washing in water, particularly the Jordan, which name and actions in the O.T. contains many matters of SYMBOLISM.

Any believer should know that SINS are an internal matter. SIN is not something that is washed off from the body by WATER. I shake my head in wonder at such lame understandings that think it is.

That action by Spiritual nature IS symbolic.

The questions with any symbolism become problematic with the observers for whoever enters there. And the issues will always be WHAT do these matters then SYMBOLIZE?

In these matters believers can exchange for benefit OR they can exchange to detriment. In believers with true hearts they will exchange interesting spiritual matters for benefits. Others will exchange in order to dominate, bully and control. These two ways are part of the fulcrum of spiritual understandings.

Waters themselves are SYMBOLIC in the text to VOICES or WORDS. Words of God are pure Words equated to pure untainted water. Some waters are not pure. These would be considered opposition waters or waters of the deceiver(s) in the spiritual realm, what I term anti-spiritual realm. There is a spiritual realm and an anti-spiritual realm. We know for example that the 'whole' world lies in wickedness. This is not a matter that we see with our eyes until there are obvious wicked external issues, but the reality stems from the anti-spiritual INTERNAL and unseen arena. Wickedness begins internally.

Some people are 'led' by God, called out by God to DIVIDE from their internal wickedness. This was the call of John the Baptist. The 'preparation' was a HEART matter. Therefore symbolic of unseen. All external symbolism speaks to the unseen and the basic division between good and evil.

Paul laid out some basics on Gods Workings in these matters showing His Pattern being FIRST the natural, THEN the spiritual. This is The Way of God.

All people are by blinded carnal nature, both blind and wicked. Some in this present life are 'called out' by God Himself. This is a spiritual matter. We are called out and DIVIDED from wickedness and this present wicked world.

Baptism in water in part symbolizes this matter and in many ways. The action itself does nothing apart from the workings of the Spirit in those so called.

John the Baptist questioned why Jesus would need to be baptized. And that was a legitimate question. John did not yet know what laid ahead for our Lord, but part of it was He Himself putting on the 'seed of Abraham' and 'partaking' in the worlds experience in suffering and death.

The Jordan was purposeful waters. Jordanian waters are matters of adverse actions/reactions in several places in the text. They in effect are 'resistor' or 'deceiver' waters which were both 'stopped up' and 'divided' in the O.T. A LOT of spiritual activity transpired around the symbolism of the Jordan.

The immersion there, of Jesus, is part of a spiritual showing of the decent of God Himself into this wicked world.

Much more can be written on this particular matter, but the above is enough to launch the interest of any who are led to discover the beauties of symbolism as it pertains to baptism and water. It's a rich mining field in the text. Very rich.

As to the dove? Birds are also representative matters. And again in the arena of symbolism birds are associated with THOUGHTS. And again, there are GOOD thoughts and BAD thoughts. And there are BIRDS associated in the text on both sides of these ledgers on various scales.

Here is a SYMBOLIC PICTURE of BIRDS or FOWLS that Jesus gave on the BAD side of the thought ledgers:

Mark 4:4
And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

This particular entry is part of the price of understanding that one has to pay to enter into understandings of the spiritual and symbolic arena. It is a hard place to go that only God can show any person. Otherwise this particular door will remain purposefully locked and there will be no understandings for them of ANY symbolic/spiritual matter.

Jesus in this parable chain made this observation about this particular parable, and describes it as THEE parable to understand ALL parables. If a believer has no 'personal' understanding of this parable they will basically not 'see' or 'understand' much in the scriptures.

Mark 4:13
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

Then Jesus lays out the exact meaning of Mark 4:4 and the FOWLS of the AIR.

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Countless MILLIONS of believers have read the above, and the majority of them always have an instantaneous reaction of thought within their own minds that says this:

"THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE A BELIEVER."

And that is exactly the fowl of the air that has just STOLEN this WORD as being a fact for the READER.

And reader who is led by God to the truth that this happens to them will step foot into the Spiritual arena and God Himself will in fact show them ALL THINGS. They will be caught up themselves INTO the Mystery of Faith and they will see GOD HIMSELF, ALIVE IN THIS PRESENT WORLD busily at work.

May God remove the scales of the SERPENT off all believers eyes!

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Mitspa]

What does these quotes have to do with Jesus' baptism?

I think When THE FATHER OF HEAVEN uses a word, that it is VERY important in the context of Why Christ was baptised!
The fact that some leave out "beloved" which satan also done? might show us more than you think!

 

[rrowell]

I think When THE FATHER OF HEAVEN uses a word, that it is VERY important in the context of Why Christ was baptised!
The fact that some leave out "beloved" which satan also done? might show us more than you think!

I would like a better explanation of this please?

I am failing to see your point?

 

[Mitspa]

I would like a better explanation of this please?

I am failing to see your point?

Eph 3:16

That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17

That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18

May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19

And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Eph 3:20

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,



See "Gods love" is our Strength, it is "the foundation" upon which all Knowledge is built. When satan can seperate us from Gods Love for Us, he can defeat us with his wicked temptations.

 

[Deborah13]

There are two approaches to Word. Literal and allegorical.

Some will view water baptism as their external obedience matter i.e. they themselves perform X and then they attach some benefit unto themselves for their action.

smaller, thank you for participanting in this thread. I kept waiting for you. I actually copied your post into a file doc. so that I can go through it later.

I agree with everything you said if I understood you correctly.

This is an facet that I am considering but haven't truly asked the Holy Spirit for guidance. So I share it only as what it is, a consideration.

Before Jesus' sacrifice He needed to be declared as the High Priest, of the order of Melchizadek. I find in Exodus a ceremony that was done for this reason of the priesthood. It's in Ex. 29. It said to the people that is was their priest, anointed and ordained by God. The water and the oil (Holy Spirit). "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased."
The Jews through their traditions would have had an understanding of what had happened. Those yeilding themselves to the Holy Spirit would understand but the stiff-necked religious and proud rabbis and priest would be insulted.
He came as a Rabbi, He left as the High Priest.

He fulfilled the righteous law of God, in His baptisim, in His sacrific as the Lamb of God.

Just my thoughts.


God has never changed.

 

[Deborah13]

LOL Mitspa has a thread about King David

Jesus came as a Rabbi to the Jews and left as High Priest

David the shepard boy became King David

David in Hebrew is "beloved by God"