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Why wasn't Jesus eternally tormented?

I don’t know that I understand it but then in the grand scheme of things I’m not sure it really matters that I don’t. I figure what is necessary is that I trust God and I’ll leave it in his hands. But here’s my take on it.

Salvation:
* saved from danger or destruction
* delivered from the power and effects of sin
* preserved from destruction

There’s no need to save us if there is nothing to save us from. Like matter and anti-matter can’t occupy the same space, God and sin can’t occupy the same space. By nature we have proven to be sinful and unclean and therefore in our imperfect state we cannot share the same space with a perfect God. All of mankind is condemned unless we repent and put our faith on the Christ, Jesus. And, if that’s "works" then I pray to be a workaholic.

Adam and Eve may not have known good or evil but they most certainly knew about obedience. When they disobeyed, mankind became lost and separated from God through death. Our path to destruction was set and God, in his infinite wisdom, cut us off at the pass so to speak and provided a means for redemption by instituting the atonement sacrifice using an unblemished lamb. Eventually, he brought that process to fruition for all, Jew and gentile alike, by giving his only son to be the perfect sacrificial lamb. It is only through putting our faith in the blood of the one Lamb of God who died for our sakes that we can be saved from eternal separation from God.

It is not about what God will do as a result of our actions but what God has already done. Because Jesus was that perfect Lamb he was able to defeat death and eternal torment and through Him we too can share the same wondrous fortune.

We are blessed that we have hindsight and can now look back to the cross. What an awesome view!

John 3:14-18
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Romans 5
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
I think you're misunderstanding
I'm not sure that what I'm doing may rightly be called 'misunderstanding'. Could it not also be called debunking? Or could it not also simply be my desire to prove all things by the more sure word of Prophecy? Fact is, I don't see the words, "Conditionalist," nor "Penal Substitutionary Atonement," in scripture. That's okay. I do see concepts that are similar and would like to encourage you to view what is being said within the light of what has been said.

Mind you, I'm no expert and do not allege to know how to do this for you, but am trying to not misunderstand and to not misrepresent by not stating a direct contrary allegation, only admonishment and not debunking so far... We must all be willing to be guided by the Word of God, and in this, I'm sure you will agree.
 
Adam & Eve were immortal?

No, it was the tree of the garden that [gave them life IMMORTAL]. Rev. 22:1-3
And it will be restored [for just these.]

No immortal souls living in hell either.

--Elijah
 
Adam & Eve were immortal?

No, it was the tree of the garden that [gave them life IMMORTAL]. Rev. 22:1-3
And it will be restored [for just these.]

No immortal souls living in hell either.

--Elijah

There is no such thing as an immortal soul...

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

The very word nephesh or psuche means something that breathes for a living. Something that CAN die.
 
Yes! Like that. Elijah674's point about Adam and Eve and how they were not immortal goes directly to the Justice argument showing that there was no need for "eternal" punishment to be balanced against. Add that to the fact that Jesus fulfilled Scripture (the Sign of Jonah) and the fact that He was given authority and command from His Father and that it was His choice and His decision... doesn't that tie and wrap things up nicely?
 
God tells the wicked to depart from him into the eternal fire.. they don't enter due to their choice.

Pleaaaseee, everybody has a choice to accept Jesus into their heart while their still breathing, you didn't know that? God doesn't send people to hell, he releases them.
Show me book, chapter, and verse that says God 'releases' people to Hell. Urk are not aware that Christianity took time to spread around the world? There have been many people who never heard of Jesus...so please stop this silliness of saying everyone has or had a choice to choose Jesus. Urk are not aware that God is omnipotent? He doesn't have to allow someone to be tortured for eternity...if He doesn't want to. Why would a loving God who tell his children to forgive their enemies turn around and torture those who rejected Him? Sort of do as i say but not as i do huh??lol:)

Do you not realize God is ominipotent? When people chose not to reject what they know about God he is more than able to bring the message of Christ to them. You desire to say God tortures people I believe God gives perfect justice that shows his great love. Yes people are without excuse before God.

Romans 1

18 For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth, 19 since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse. 21 For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles.

24 Therefore God delivered them over in the cravings of their hearts to sexual impurity, so that their bodies were degraded among themselves. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served something created instead of the Creator, who is praised forever. Amen.
You asked me if i realized that God is ominipotent...just after i asked urk the same question. I would have thought that the average person would have been able to deduce from my question to urk about the omnipotence of God that i did indeed realize that God is omnipotent. So you call perfect love eternally torturing those who never heard the gospel?? Now that is funny:lol
 
Show me book, chapter, and verse that says God 'releases' people to Hell. Urk are not aware that Christianity took time to spread around the world? There have been many people who never heard of Jesus...so please stop this silliness of saying everyone has or had a choice to choose Jesus. Urk are not aware that God is omnipotent? He doesn't have to allow someone to be tortured for eternity...if He doesn't want to. Why would a loving God who tell his children to forgive their enemies turn around and torture those who rejected Him? Sort of do as i say but not as i do huh??lol:)

Do you not realize God is ominipotent? When people chose not to reject what they know about God he is more than able to bring the message of Christ to them. You desire to say God tortures people I believe God gives perfect justice that shows his great love. Yes people are without excuse before God.

Romans 1

18 For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth, 19 since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse. 21 For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles.

24 Therefore God delivered them over in the cravings of their hearts to sexual impurity, so that their bodies were degraded among themselves. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served something created instead of the Creator, who is praised forever. Amen.
You asked me if i realized that God is ominipotent...just after i asked urk the same question. I would have thought that the average person would have been able to deduce from my question to urk about the omnipotence of God that i did indeed realize that God is omnipotent. So you call perfect love eternally torturing those who never heard the gospel?? Now that is funny:lol

The passages teaches us that God himself made truth know therefore man is without excuse.
 
Show me book, chapter, and verse that says God 'releases' people to Hell. Urk are not aware that Christianity took time to spread around the world? There have been many people who never heard of Jesus...so please stop this silliness of saying everyone has or had a choice to choose Jesus. Urk are not aware that God is omnipotent? He doesn't have to allow someone to be tortured for eternity...if He doesn't want to. Why would a loving God who tell his children to forgive their enemies turn around and torture those who rejected Him? Sort of do as i say but not as i do huh??lol:)

Do you not realize God is ominipotent? When people chose not to reject what they know about God he is more than able to bring the message of Christ to them. You desire to say God tortures people I believe God gives perfect justice that shows his great love. Yes people are without excuse before God.

Romans 1

18 For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth, 19 since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse. 21 For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles.

24 Therefore God delivered them over in the cravings of their hearts to sexual impurity, so that their bodies were degraded among themselves. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served something created instead of the Creator, who is praised forever. Amen.
You asked me if i realized that God is ominipotent...just after i asked urk the same question. I would have thought that the average person would have been able to deduce from my question to urk about the omnipotence of God that i did indeed realize that God is omnipotent. So you call perfect love eternally torturing those who never heard the gospel?? Now that is funny:lol

The passages teaches us that God himself made truth know therefore man is without excuse.
Ofcourse man has no excuse....even the ones who never heard of the gospel.:)
 
Ofcourse man has no excuse....even the ones who never heard of the gospel.:)

Are they also rejecting God as the creator of all things? Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: & Ecclesiastes 3:11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

People who do not hear the gospel must be condemned, or else there is no motivation for evangelism. Rebellious fools perhaps.
 
What makes us think that all of mankind hasn't heard the Gospel yet anyway? With all of the missionaries, and internet now, it's a pretty far stretch to say that mankind hasn't heard it.
Just recently I met a middle schooler who had never heard of Jesus before. He lives in the USA.

I doubt this opinion.
 
What makes us think that all of mankind hasn't heard the Gospel yet anyway? With all of the missionaries, and internet now, it's a pretty far stretch to say that mankind hasn't heard it.
Just recently I met a middle schooler who had never heard of Jesus before. He lives in the USA.

I doubt this opinion.

One year I sent out invitations to my local neighborhood children for a Birthday Party for Jesus to be hosted out our Church at few days before Christmas. One child showed up with a gift for Jesus. She said she and her mother did not now if Jesus was a boy or a girl so they purchased them a yo-yo and hoped they liked it.

This child's house is located between 2 churches.
 
You asked me if i realized that God is ominipotent...just after i asked urk the same question. I would have thought that the average person would have been able to deduce from my question to urk about the omnipotence of God that i did indeed realize that God is omnipotent. So you call perfect love eternally torturing those who never heard the gospel?? Now that is funny:lol

The passages teaches us that God himself made truth know therefore man is without excuse.
Ofcourse man has no excuse....even the ones who never heard of the gospel.:)

We agree!
 
What makes us think that all of mankind hasn't heard the Gospel yet anyway? With all of the missionaries, and internet now, it's a pretty far stretch to say that mankind hasn't heard it.
Yeah that African tribesman from outer Zimbabwe can just grab his laptop and log on to the internet any time he wants.....lol Actually it is not far-fetched...ever hear of dead people? Yeah there were actually people throughout history that died never hearing the gospel of Jesus because Christainity did not instantaneously spread around the world.....just saying.:)
 
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
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What makes us think that all of mankind hasn't heard the Gospel yet anyway? With all of the missionaries, and internet now, it's a pretty far stretch to say that mankind hasn't heard it.
Yeah that African tribesman from outer Zimbabwe can just grab his laptop and log on to the internet any time he wants.....lol Actually it is not far-fetched...ever hear of dead people? Yeah there were actually people throughout history that died never hearing the gospel of Jesus because Christainity did not instantaneously spread around the world.....just saying.:)

Yeah, really. :thumbsup
 
These personal 'dog and pony' shows disrupt the real grown-up conversations folks wish to have...

Ask your self some thing like "am I here to share the Word of God or am here to show how smarty I can be" .... REBA
 
Finally a new argument! :)

Well, what did he mean by "it is finished?" What do you base this conclusion off of?

This is strange form of propitiation. Propitiation.. the Greek word ἱλασμός is in reference to the mercy seat, where a lamb was taken up on the day of atonement and sacrificed and it's blood was then sprinkled on the mercy seat.. the top of the ark of the Covenant. The lamb was slain.. slaughtered and that was the propitiation.. there is no such thing as propitiation being in regards to the separation of something, it is about life for life. They didn't just take part of the lamb's blood, they shed it's blood killing it, for it took the whole life of the lamb.

Just the same in Jesus' case. It wasn't enough that he was "separated from the Father" and shed some of his blood.. but that he DIED for our sins, he didn't just suffer for them. It was the suffering of his death that atones for sin.

Ahh.. I am familiar with this position. That Jesus paid the price for all sins except the sin of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.. that those who ultimately reject Jesus commit and eternal sin and thus receive an eternal punishment. (correct me if I am wrong here)

A few things are wrong with this view.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. John 3:18

This passages teaches that those who believe will not be condemned.. but those do not believe are condemned already? Why? Because they have not believed in Jesus. v.36 of John chapter 3 teaches that the wrath of God REMAINS on those who do not obey the Son, that the punishment is not taken away and the wrath is not absorbed, but rather remains. Those who do not believe in Jesus are condemned, not because they don't believe in Jesus, but because Jesus is the only hope for salvation from the power and punishment of sin.

"Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." Matthew 12:32

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an eternal sin, because it pertains to the age to come.. "eternal" in this instance carries a qualitative meaning. Those who commit this blasphemy.. which is ascribing the work of Jesus to the ministry of Satan, will not be forgiven in this age OR THE AGE TO COME. It is unforgivable.

Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. Colossians 3:5-6(ESV)

Why would the wrath of God be coming on behalf of sins that Jesus paid for? It isn't coming because they rejected Jesus alone, but the result of their rejection is that their sins were not atoned for.

At the final judgement people will be judged not for what they believed, but for the deeds they did. See the great white throne judgement in Revelation 20.

Jesus Christ is the reason Hell is eternal.
So Jesus coming to earth meant... that those who sinned instead of simply dying, they will now instead be tortured forever and ever.. HECK, better he didn't come as he just made the punishment far worse! (speaking from the perspective of someone who would be punished)

Unbelievers go to hell for eternity because the penalty for unbelief in a eternal Son is Eternal separation. It is no longer about Sins and the consequences for Sins.It is now about the Son and the consequences for not accepting the Son, which is eternal for the believer and the unbeliever alike.
I simply cannot agree as that is not what Scripture consistently teaches.

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Ephesians 5:6

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, Romans 1:18

God's wrath is coming because of their sinfulness, ungodliness, unrighteousness and the only hope from that is repenting and believing in Jesus who will cleanse US WHO CONFESS of all of our sins.

So the whole OP is based on a false premise. Sins have a death penalty. The Son has eternal consequences. John 16:9
I'm afraid you're the one who has built your argument on a false premise. The final judgement is according to the deeds they have done.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Revelation 20:14(NASB)

"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:8

You see it is those who commit those kinds of sins who are consigned to the final punishment, the second death. Not simply those who don't believe in Jesus. Their sins were not paid for, as they were being explicitly punished for such.

Sin is finished, Christ paid the death penalty for ALL. It is eternal for both believer and unbeliever because it is about the SON not about the Sin.
How do you deal with this passage?

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

How can someone be cleansed of sin.. if their sins has previously been fully cleansed and dealt with?

And I have said earlier this kind of debate about hell diminishes the Son, Because it is a debate about sin and Hell. And it is not about Sin, it is about the SON.
It's not a debate about the Son, as I have demonstrated.

But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, Romans 2:5-9

You are DEMONSTRABLY wrong.

Sin is FINISHED and there is no longer a debate about Sins and its death penalty. It is about the Son and the consequences for belief or unbelief, which are eternal.
I am curious how you will respond to these things, as I have demonstrated that the final judgement is in regards to the evil done by those did not repent and believe in Jesus. As you affirmed death is the penalty for sin, not eternal torment.. I don't see how you can't agree with me now. Or you'll just outright deny or explain away clear teaching.

Look at the great white throne judgment and show me where the unbelievers SINS are mentioned. It is their ergon, works. No mention of hamartia,sins.

I did not affirm YOUR definition death.
 
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