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Why wasn't Jesus eternally tormented?

My understanding of scripture is limited as well.

Isaiah 55:8-9

For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
 
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I think it is important that we do not demonize those who disagree with us, certainly the eternal torment view comes from an overly literal reading of certain texts that are either parables or apocalyptic literature, but I would say that those who hold to the view are not using it to control others with fear. This has certainly been the case with some, but it is not the prevailing view and it does not settle whether or not it is true or false. We must all go back to Scripture to learn from our Lord in humility.

Blessings,
Servant of Jesus

I appreciate this post, your attitude and your sincere study of this topic.
 
My understanding of scripture is limited as well.

Isaiah 55:8-9

For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
I know and i admire your humility in admitting that. It takes a big man i mean woman! to step up and say that.:thumbsup
 
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I've just had to delete a number of posts due to personal attacks and trolling. Keep this on topic and stop the insults and condescension or infractions will be handed out.
 
Jesus wasn't eternally tormented because he was sinless and was also born again of the Holy Spirit. John 3:3.
 
I appreciate this post, your attitude and your sincere study of this topic.
Thank you, being in alignment with God's Word is very important to me and it goes beyond what I prefer to be true. Heck, me holding a position that is counter to most of my brothers and sisters is definitely not something I prefer.

That's why I try to detail my arguments as clearly as I can so that they can be properly analyzed and criticized.

May we grow in the truthfulness of God's word and do so with the same grace our Lord had.

Blessings to you in Christ,
Servant of Jesus
 
I don't disagree on the first point and on the second I think we are more or less in agreement regarding looking into the historicity and not arguing for the sake of it. If the historicity of those statements from Philo and the Wisdom of Solomon is difficult to prove then I clearly cannot push it further. I do find it quite interesting though.
I read a very interesting and VERY detailed article in from my Logos Bible software on Sodom and Gomorrah. Here is the summary for your consideration.


Summary
The location of Sodom and the Cities of the Plain is no longer a mystery. The Bronze Age civilization of the eastern Kikkar was very likely the source of the biblical tradition concerning the Cities of the Plain and the backdrop for the Sodom tales. The Bible represents Sodom as the largest Bronze Age city on the Kikkar of the Jordan, and this must be Tall el-Hammam. TeH was the largest Bronze Age city in the region—larger by several orders of magnitude than Jericho, Jerusalem, and every other site in the southern Jordan Valley.
The Land of the Kikkar was home to a spectacular civilization for more than 2,500 years; but all of it came to a violent termination toward the end of the Middle Bronze Age, the time of Abram and Lot. The Jordan Disk remained without cities and towns for the next six to seven centuries, and Sodom became Abel, the Place of Mourning. Joseph mourned Jacob there. Later Israelites would see the Kikkar as the place where “Pisgah overlooks the wasteland” (Num 21:20), and call it Abel ++++tim, Acacias of Mourning.
After their destruction, Sodom and Gomorrah became one of Scripture’s principal metaphors for the wrath of God. Archaeology has confirmed that the Cities of the Plain met a fiery end and remained uninhabited for centuries. If the text of Genesis does preserve factual information about this event, an explanation is possible. Toward the end of MB2, some horrific, fiery event burned up everything on the Kikkar, including cities and towns, crops, and natural vegetation. The event was remembered in local lore attributing the destruction to the locals’ gods. After several decades—or perhaps more than a century—the area recovered its natural vegetation enough to support agricultural activity once again. But then the folklore prevented anyone from building permanent settlements there even after agriculture again became possible. Locals saw the area as “cursed by God,” and a palpable fear kept people away, except for intrepid farmers who worked the land after the spring inundation of the Jordan.

Collins, S. (2012). Sodom and the Cities of the Plain. In J. D. Barry & L. Wentz (Eds.), The Lexham Bible Dictionary (J. D. Barry & L. Wentz, Ed.). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

If you want to learn some more about the articles I can try to email it in a document to you, it's very good.

Be blessed!
 
All these passages clearly describe the two separate destinies of the righteous and the unrighteous. The “righteous” are people who are in-right-standing with God because they’ve accepted his sacrifice for their sins, the “unrighteous” are those who are not in-right-standing with their Creator because they’ve rejected his offer of salvation. The former will inherit eternal life, whereas the latter will reap the wages of sin and be destroyed.
Yet those who adhere to the eternal torture doctrine mysteriously don’t accept this blatantly clear biblical truth. They don’t believe that the two polar opposites are life and death; they believe the two polar opposites are eternal life in heavenly bliss and eternal life in burning torment. Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? They may not phrase it in such an open manner, but this is what they actually believe when it comes down to it.

http://www.hell-know.net/

Oh so simple,you may need to get off the milk,and get some meat

They actually believe? Who, the people that wrote the bible that were indwelled with the Holy Spirit?? Pleaassse, you need to learn more about what Mark 9:48, Isaiah 66:24, Revelation 14:11 & Revelation 20:10 says about the afterlife. I don't like milk, never did but ty.

Again this is off topic,however I will engage you

MARK 9:43-48

“If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell (Gehenna) where the fire never goes out. (45) And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell (Gehenna). (47) And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell (Gehenna), (48) where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’ ”[26]

The best way to handle this long passage is to examine it point by point and then take it as a whole.
First of all, plainly observe that verses 43 and 45 state that it is better to enter life maimed or crippled than to be thrown into “hell” (Greek: Gehenna). Verse 47 enlightens us that those who “enter life” will “enter the kingdom of God.” This is in perfect harmony with what we’ve repeatedly witnessed in the scriptures throughout this study: only the righteous will be granted eternal life and partake of the kingdom of God in the age to come (i.e. the new Jerusalem and new earth – see Revelation chapter 21).

If only the righteous will “enter life” in the age to come, then the unrighteous, who will be “thrown into Gehenna” (the lake of fire), will not enter any kind of life at all. No, they will suffer the second death – everlasting destruction of both soul and body – as we have repeatedly observed.

Secondly, notice that all three times Jesus refers to the lake of fire throughout this passage he uses the example of Gehenna. As already detailed in Chapter Two, Gehenna was the local trash dump & incinerator located right outside the city walls of Jerusalem to the south. Trash, garbage and the carcasses of animals, despised criminals & vanquished enemies were thrown into Gehenna for the express purpose of disposal and eradication. Why would Jesus continually use this local trash dump & incinerator as an illustration of the lake of fire? Because Gehenna was a very certain symbol of destruction which all of his hearers readily understood. We need to keep this important fact in mind whenever viewing biblical texts that speaks of Gehenna. Sadly, most bible readers will miss out on these important facts because 1.) the English word “hell” disguises the Greek Gehenna, and 2.) they lack any historical knowledge of what Gehenna was at the time of Jesus’ earthly ministry.
Keeping the above two points in mind let’s now observe Jesus’ statement in verse 43, “Hell (Gehenna), where the fire never goes out.” This was actually true of Gehenna – the Valley of Hinnom – as the fires of this city dump were kept constantly burning for the purpose of burning up refuse. But this is also true of the lake of fire of which Gehenna is an example. As we’ve already covered, Jesus spoke of the lake of fire as “the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41). The LORD had no choice but to prepare such a place after the devil and his angels rebelled against him. Since the devil and his demons possess unconditional immortality and can never die, the lake of fire will be their eternal habitation; but for mortal human beings, the lake of fire will be used as God’s chosen instrument to execute “the second death.” The fire never went out in the constantly smoking Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna), but the refuse thrown into it was eradicated – the refuse didn’t ludicrously burn forever. In the same way, the fire in the lake of fire will evidently never go out, but the people cast in it will be completely eradicated.

“Gehenna, where ‘their Worm Does Not Die’ ”


Let’s now examine Jesus’ statement in verse 48: “Hell (Gehenna), where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’ ” Despite the obvious ambiguity of the statement, this is one of the major texts cited by adherents of the eternal torment theory to prove their view. Yet, let’s face the facts here: does Jesus say anything in this verse about people being in a state of perpetual, undying torment? No. In fact, if we were to really take this verse literally, then Jesus is evidently teaching on the immortality of worms! The case for the eternal torment theory is pretty sad indeed if its adherents must resort to citing this verse as one of their major proof texts. If the ultimate consequence of sin is as harsh and cruel as everlasting fiery conscious torture, would Jesus Christ, the living Word of God, piddle around making such ambiguous statements? No, he would not fail to clearly spell out the truth regarding such an important subject. That’s why he plainly referred to the lake of fire as Gehenna three times in this very passage, because Gehenna was a very certain symbol of destruction which backs up his many clear and solemn statements regarding the second death.

You’ll notice that verse 48 is in quotation marks. That’s because Jesus is quoting the very last passage of the book of Isaiah. Although we’ve already viewed this verse in the section on Daniel 12:2, let’s go ahead and observe it again (from a different translation), as this is the only way we can properly interpret Jesus’ words.

ISAIAH 66:24 (NASB)
“They (the righteous) shall go forth and look on the corpses of the men who have transgressed against me. For their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched; and they shall be an abhorrence to all mankind.”

“The corpses” refer to the people who have transgressed against the LORD and will be thrown into the lake of fire. Please notice that they are no longer alive. They are dead. They have been destroyed. They are loathsome, ashen, worm-chewed corpses! They will be “an abhorrence to all mankind” just as an ashen, worm-chewed corpse of a despised criminal would be abhorrent to us.

The fact that these transgressors are, in fact, lifeless corpses is backed up by verse 16 of the same chapter, which states that they will be “slain by the LORD,” and verse 17, which states that “they will meet their end.” The second death is when the ungodly will meet their end, not when they’ll meet the beginning of life in never-ending conscious agony.

The Hebrew for “worm” refers to maggots (Strong 123). The unmistakable fact is that the bodies affected by these maggots are dead. This is natural since maggots exclusively devour dead flesh, not living creatures. And, it should be added, maggots do not die, they turn into flies.

Being that Gehenna was a garbage dump, maggots inevitably bred freely there and preyed upon the filth. When corpses of animals or executed criminals were thrown in, they would either be destroyed by maggots, by the fires that kept constantly burning there, or by a combination of both (Hornor 22).
Understanding the unmistakable context of Jesus’ quote from Isaiah, as well as the historical facts regarding Gehenna help us to properly interpret Jesus’ words from Mark 9:43-48.

By not rightly dividing the Word of God – that is, being biased and superficial in their “studies” – many misguided hellfire preachers have had a field day with Mark 9:48, drawing up all kinds of bizarre interpretations, including how immortal worms will forever chew on the undying souls of the damned in hell. In response to this, I have a much less ambiguous “worm verse” that I’d like to share, which is also from the book of Isaiah:

ISAIAH 51:8

“For the moth will eat them up like a garment; the worm will devour them like wool. But my righteousness will last forever, my salvation through all generations.”

Just as moths eat or destroy garments, so the ungodly will be destroyed in the lake of fire. Like Mark 9:48, this is undoubtedly a figurative example of everlasting destruction; it is meant to be taken seriously, but not necessarily literally. I doubt, after all, that there will be literal moths or worms in the lake of fire devouring those thrown in. We’ve already deduced from scripture that, literally, the ungodly will be totally consumed by raging fire – both soul and body – when cast into the lake of fire. This will result in the blackest darkness of all – absolute obliteration and extinction of being.

Notice how the everlasting destruction of the ungodly is contrasted with the LORD’s righteousness and salvation which will last forever. Those who accept God’s gracious gift of salvation – eternal life – will experience this salvation forever. Those who reject it have no “forever” to look forward to; they will be destroyed like garments devoured by moths or worms. Verses 3,6-8 & 11 also confirm that this is indeed an eschatological text and thus relevant to the eternal fate of ungodly people. Why is it that adherents of the eternal torment theory fail to ever mention this “worm verse”? I’ll tell you why – because it contradicts the religious-traditional position they so dearly embrace.[27]

http://hell-know.net/#e

Never believed in eternal hell from the start,however as the above link is one of the best Ive read at dismissing this myth,I would implore you to just take a look at it.......
 
In the same way, the fire in the lake of fire will evidently never go out, but the people cast in it will be completely eradicated.
No n2thelight, destroyed is not annihilation. When the bible says worm shall not dieth, they are talking about your soul. That's why the word torment is also written in the bible. Worms from the ground are not tormented per say, rather it will be your soul. Why would the devil torment worms? That's almost laughable, and also doesn't make sense. For example, take a sinner that never repents of their sins, then dies. Ok, so he now ceases to exist because don't worry the worms will take the punishment for you????? Come on man, haha. That's ridiculous! Do you understand what I'm saying here? The body that you're in now has a soul!!!!! What you believe and what is written in scripture don't agree with each other.

does Jesus say anything in this verse about people being in a state of perpetual, undying torment? No.
You don't think Mark 9:48 is speaking about eternal torment? Look again, and this time read the scripture with your eyes word for word. What does the word 'fire' mean to you? Do you think the devil will also be thrown into the lake of fire where there is torment forever and ever for the false prophet in Revelation 20:10?
 
No n2thelight, destroyed is not annihilation. When the bible says worm shall not dieth, they are talking about your soul. That's why the word torment is also written in the bible. Worms from the ground are not tormented per say, rather it will be your soul. Why would the devil torment worms? That's almost laughable, and also doesn't make sense. For example, take a sinner that never repents of their sins, then dies. Ok, so he now ceases to exist because don't worry the worms will take the punishment for you????? Come on man, haha. That's ridiculous! Do you understand what I'm saying here? The body that you're in now has a soul!!!!! What you believe and what is written in scripture don't agree with each other.


Okay,first of all,I know my body has a soul,however that soul is not automatically immortal,it must become that way,that's the gift of God...Second,the soul can and will be subject to death....

Let's listen to Paul for a sec

I Corinthians 15:53 "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

Through this entire chapter Paul has brought to our attention that we have two bodies within each of us. We have our physical body, which is made up of flesh and blood, and we have our spiritual body which is called our soul. The flesh body will die at some point in time and the spiritual body or soul body that houses or spirit will live on after death. "Mortal must put on immortality" applies only to the soul, for all flesh will be gone at death, or at the sounding of the seventh trumpet. So immortality applies only to the soul body, and even in the incorruptible body the sting of death of that soul is still on it if that soul has not received eternal life. Immortality for the soul in the Millennium age is only one those souls that have eternal life, and did not worship Satan, and take on his name, and the number of the beast.

So the flesh body must be put aside before we put on our incorruptible body that will not age through the entire Millennium age. The Word "Mortal" again means "liable to die". The object of this verseis the body, and the corruptible flesh body must be changed into the body that doesn't grow old. All through this fifteenth chapter we have documented that Christ is a live, and that he lives, and it is for that reason that we are Christians. It would be senseless to be Christians if Christ did not come out of the tomb.

"This mortal must put on immortality," again means that the soul that is mortal must also put on immortality. Christ taught in Matthew 10:25-28.

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Man can kill your body but no man, not even Satan can kill your soul. To "destroy" is to cause you "to perish" or "cease to exist". It is only God that can judge your soul to hell fire and that comes after the judgment day. "Mortal" means "liable to die", and whether your soul dies or not is left up to God's judgment.

You don't think Mark 9:48 is speaking about eternal torment? Look again, and this time read the scripture with your eyes word for word. What does the word 'fire' mean to you? Do you think the devil will also be thrown into the lake of fire where there is torment forever and ever for the false prophet in Revelation 20:10?


The verses don't mean what you think they do,as for satan,even he will cease to exist

For this let's listen to Ezekiel

Ezekiel 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the King of Tyrus, and say unto him, 'Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty."

Ezekiel 28:13 "Thou hast been in Eden the Garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the Sardis, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created."

Ezekiel 28:14 "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."

Ezekiel 28:16 "By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."


Ezekiel 28:18
"Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."

Ezekiel 28:19
"All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."





 
Okay,first of all,I know my body has a soul,however that soul is not automatically immortal,it must become that way,that's the gift of God...
Wrong. All souls are eternal. The question is, how will those souls spend eternity? Salvation is the gift of God that assures us our soul will abide in heaven. The rest will face eternal punishment and destruction in hell.
 
Okay,first of all,I know my body has a soul,however that soul is not automatically immortal,it must become that way,that's the gift of God...
Wrong. All souls are eternal. The question is, how will those souls spend eternity? Salvation is the gift of God that assures us our soul will abide in heaven. The rest will face eternal punishment and destruction in hell.


Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul the sinneth, it shall die. the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

What part of death do you all not understand???

No where is it written that your soul is immortal,please read reply 91
 
Wrong. All souls are eternal. The question is, how will those souls spend eternity? Salvation is the gift of God that assures us our soul will abide in heaven. The rest will face eternal punishment and destruction in hell.
Where does the Bible teach that all souls are innately eternal?

the one who alone possesses immortality, who lives in unapproachable light, whom no human being has seen nor is able to see, to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen. (1 Ti 6:16).

GOD ALONE POSSESSES IMMORTALITY! Please reject this unbiblical conclusion and know that eternal life and immortality comes from being united to the God of the universe in Christ.
 
Okay,first of all,I know my body has a soul,however that soul is not automatically immortal,it must become that way,that's the gift of God...Second,the soul can and will be subject to death....

In Mark 9:48, notice that is says their worm. The definition of their is referring to somebody, right? If you want, go back one scripture to Mark 9:47. What are the last two words, HELL FIRE! Mark 9:48 is precisely describing hell fire. So what is hell fire that their referring too? You're also ignoring where it says forever and ever in Revelation 20:10.
 
We have a just God,and no crime whatsoever I don't care what it is,warrants eternal torture

Yes, he is a just God that HATES sin! Hell wasn't meant for souls, do you understand? We all have a choice. What do you think of John 3:3?
 
We have a just God,and no crime whatsoever I don't care what it is,warrants eternal torture

Yes, he is a just God that HATES sin! Hell wasn't meant for souls, do you understand? We all have a choice. What do you think of John 3:3?

I could go into John 3:3 ,but that would start a whole new discussion,but can I ask you a question....Do you think you existed prior to your birth?

No the lake of fire was not created for us,however those who choose not to follow Christ will have their part in that lake which was made for satan and his angels....This leads to my next question,what does the 2nd death mean to you as per the below verse

Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Changed my mind,think I will respond toJohn 3:3

It simply means to be born from above,as we are all with the father before birth,thus you have my answer to the question I posed to you

Also what is the first death?
 
I think everyone should consider this analogy:

A just judge enters the court room, and takes a seat. After he takes comfort, he looks up at his impending trials. He notices that his beloved son has been arrested, and awaits trial for murder. With his heart sinking, he calls his son into the court room. He son enters, and takes a seat at the defense table. After what seemed to be an eternity, the Father (Judge) reaches his decision. He sentences his son to life in prison, for the premeditated murder of another human. With a tear in his eye, and sorrow in his heart, he smashes his gavel and makes his decision final. His son turns to his father and says, "Dad, don't you love me? Why would you send me to this place for the rest of my life?" The father turns and responds: "I will always love you, but you have broken the law. Because I am a just judge, you must go to this place, and be punished for what you have done. If I set you free, I would not be just, and your crimes would go unpunished."

God is a just judge who MUST punish those who refuse the bail (Jesus). Jesus fulfilled the law, but took the wrath of God on earth....However; because he fulfilled the law, he was INNOCENT when attending his court case. He had never broken the law, but was still punished for the crimes that he did not commit (our crimes). God will always love us, but cannot (as a just perfect judge) rescue us from our crimes. He must punish us if we do not accept his method of bail.

Don't ever let someone tell you God is evil, wicked, or unjust for sending people to hell. He HAS to.
 
God is a just judge who MUST punish those who refuse the bail (Jesus). Jesus fulfilled the law, but took the wrath of God on earth....However; because he fulfilled the law, he was INNOCENT when attending his court case. He had never broken the law, but was still punished for the crimes that he did not commit (our crimes). God will always love us, but cannot (as a just perfect judge) rescue us from our crimes. He must punish us if we do not accept his method of bail.

Don't ever let someone tell you God is evil, wicked, or unjust for sending people to hell. He HAS to.

Do you understand how long forever is,so again NOTHING,justifies eternal torture..............As EVIL as satan is,even he don't deserve eternal torture.....A loving Father would not do that to His children,and nowhere in scripture is it written that He will....Yea the choice is yours,and that choice is life or death..........
 
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