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Will the False prophet be Judas Iscariot resurrected?

Quantrill said:
This is no new view by means and has been suggested for years. I don't believe anyone can be dogmatic concerning it either way. I have leaned in the past more to no, it won't be Judas. But of late I find myself leaning more toward the possibility that it may be.

Judas and the False Prophet are the only two ever called the 'son of perdition'. (John 17:12) (2 Thess. 2:3)

We are told that Judas went to his 'own place'. (Acts 1:25) What would be the purpose of that information and why does he get to go to his 'own place'? Where is that place?

In (John 6:70-71) Judas is called a devil by Christ. "Remarkable expression...It is not 'hath', but 'is a devil'; not only the tool but the temple of Satan." (A Commentary, Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, Vol. III, Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1990, p.392)

It does sound strange to have a resurrected Judas, yet should it? After all, most accept the view that the two witnesses in (Revelation 11) are possibly Moses and Elijah. And Moses and Elijah were present on the Mount of Transfiguration with Christ. (Matt. 17:3) God could raise a Judas just like He could a Moses. Couldn't He?

And are not all the wicked going to be resurrected one day?

I think it is interesting. But, nothing to go to war over.

Quantrill
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Most accept that the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11 are two brand new people on the scene, who have powers and job roles similar to that of Moses and Elijah.
 
Quantrill said:
Scripture only names two 'sons of perdition'.

Quantrill
Click to expand...
And who is the second son of perdition as you claim Judas is one of them?

Perdition means one who is eternally damned, whether dead or still alive at Christ coming.

Do you really think that God is going to raise Judas from his grave to go out and persecute those who are His own and make martyr's out of many of them for their witness of Christ?

Will Judas oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God?

Will Judas use lying signs and wonders to deceive even they very elect if possible?
 
for_his_glory said:
And who is the second son of perdition as you claim Judas is one of them?

Perdition means one who is eternally damned, whether dead or still alive at Christ coming.

Do you really think that God is going to raise Judas from his grave to go out and persecute those who are His own and make martyr's out of many of them for their witness of Christ?

Will Judas oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God?

Will Judas use lying signs and wonders to deceive even they very elect if possible?
Click to expand...

I have already told you that I lean toward the position that both times the term 'son of perdition' is used, it is identifying Judas.

And, as Scripture says, Judas was condemned. (Matt. 26:24) (Matt. 27:3)

If Judas is the false prophet, then he will be doing all that the false prophet does.

Understand that this doesn't mean the false prophet will come claiming he is the risen Judas. It just means they are the same person.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
I have already told you that I lean toward the position that both times the term 'son of perdition' is used, it is identifying Judas.
Click to expand...
You only lean which means you are not sure. Why can't you answer my valid questions? If you can't answer them then I am done with this for now.
 
Quantrill said:
This is no new view by means and has been suggested for years. I don't believe anyone can be dogmatic concerning it either way. I have leaned in the past more to no, it won't be Judas. But of late I find myself leaning more toward the possibility that it may be.

Judas and the False Prophet are the only two ever called the 'son of perdition'. (John 17:12) (2 Thess. 2:3)

We are told that Judas went to his 'own place'. (Acts 1:25) What would be the purpose of that information and why does he get to go to his 'own place'? Where is that place?

In (John 6:70-71) Judas is called a devil by Christ. "Remarkable expression...It is not 'hath', but 'is a devil'; not only the tool but the temple of Satan." (A Commentary, Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, Vol. III, Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1990, p.392)

It does sound strange to have a resurrected Judas, yet should it? After all, most accept the view that the two witnesses in (Revelation 11) are possibly Moses and Elijah. And Moses and Elijah were present on the Mount of Transfiguration with Christ. (Matt. 17:3) God could raise a Judas just like He could a Moses. Couldn't He?

And are not all the wicked going to be resurrected one day?

I think it is interesting. But, nothing to go to war over.

Quantrill
Click to expand...
Agree with Hopeful post 3.

Only Jesus resurrected.
 
The questions are very obvious in my post #22 so if you want to evade those questions then there is no more to discuss between us.
 
for_his_glory said:
The questions are very obvious in my post #22 so if you want to evade those questions then there is no more to discuss between us.
Click to expand...

I'm not evading anything. Tell me which question(s) has not been answered. I went back and looked and I don't see any that I haven't answered.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
This is no new view by means and has been suggested for years. I don't believe anyone can be dogmatic concerning it either way. I have leaned in the past more to no, it won't be Judas. But of late I find myself leaning more toward the possibility that it may be.

Judas and the False Prophet are the only two ever called the 'son of perdition'. (John 17:12) (2 Thess. 2:3)

We are told that Judas went to his 'own place'. (Acts 1:25) What would be the purpose of that information and why does he get to go to his 'own place'? Where is that place?

In (John 6:70-71) Judas is called a devil by Christ. "Remarkable expression...It is not 'hath', but 'is a devil'; not only the tool but the temple of Satan." (A Commentary, Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, Vol. III, Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1990, p.392)

It does sound strange to have a resurrected Judas, yet should it? After all, most accept the view that the two witnesses in (Revelation 11) are possibly Moses and Elijah. And Moses and Elijah were present on the Mount of Transfiguration with Christ. (Matt. 17:3) God could raise a Judas just like He could a Moses. Couldn't He?

And are not all the wicked going to be resurrected one day?

I think it is interesting. But, nothing to go to war over.

Quantrill
Click to expand...
Judas Iscariot.
Yes, that's a good one.
Let's go with it.
 
Hopeful said:
I don't usually open unsolicited links.
If something isn't clearly read from the bible, I have no use for it.
Click to expand...

Hopeful,

If you read the link from the article I wrote, you would see that it is full of verses from the Bible.

Before Christ’s resurrection, both believers and unbelievers went to Sheol/Hades – two separate places in that location (see Isa 14:9-20; 44:23; Ezek 32:21; Lk 16:22-23). After the resurrection, believers go to be with Christ (Phil. 1:23) which is better than Hades. According to 2 Cor. 5:6-9, believers are present with the Lord and are worshipping with the angelic hosts in heaven (Heb. 12:22-23).

We understand that Christ went to Hades at death (see Acts 2:31). When Jesus was in Hades, Peter explains that Christ was proclaiming to “the spirits now in prison” (1 Peter 3:18-22).

However, in the Gospel records (e.g. Luke 23:43), Paradise refers to the section of Hades reserved for the righteous. By the time of Paul’s writing in 2 Cor. 12:2-4, Paradise seems to have been taken out of Hades and is now the third heaven.

So, with progressive revelation, we understand that after the resurrection of Jesus, the believer who dies goes to heaven at death and there awaits the future resurrection to the eternal state.

What about unbelievers now? The Scriptures seem to teach that they go into torment in the intermediate state in Hades, awaiting the final judgment. Peter described it this way:

“Then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment” (2 Peter 2:9 NIV)
Click to expand...

“To hold” in the Greek of this verse is a present, active infinitive, meaning that the wicked are being kept where they are, captive continuously. This verse clearly refutes annihilation of the wicked after death as there would be nothing “to hold” until the judgment day if they had no existence. Peter says the unrighteous are “continuing their punishment”, this phrase is interpreting a present, passive participle that indicates the unbelievers are being continuously tormented/punished. The Greek grammar of this text clearly states that the wicked dead are experiencing torment as they await the final judgment. Greek present tense indicates kind of action and not time of action, as in English - as a general rule.

We read about the final judgment in Rev. 20:13-15 when Hades (the place for the wicked who died after Christ’s resurrection) will be emptied of the wicked dead and will face God for judgment. At that point, the wicked will be cast into hell.

I encourage you to be not so ignorant of the content of a link as you have been here.

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
Hopeful,

If you read the link from the article I wrote, you would see that it is full of verses from the Bible.

Before Christ’s resurrection, both believers and unbelievers went to Sheol/Hades – two separate places in that location (see Isa 14:9-20; 44:23; Ezek 32:21; Lk 16:22-23). After the resurrection, believers go to be with Christ (Phil. 1:23) which is better than Hades. According to 2 Cor. 5:6-9, believers are present with the Lord and are worshipping with the angelic hosts in heaven (Heb. 12:22-23).

We understand that Christ went to Hades at death (see Acts 2:31). When Jesus was in Hades, Peter explains that Christ was proclaiming to “the spirits now in prison” (1 Peter 3:18-22).

However, in the Gospel records (e.g. Luke 23:43), Paradise refers to the section of Hades reserved for the righteous. By the time of Paul’s writing in 2 Cor. 12:2-4, Paradise seems to have been taken out of Hades and is now the third heaven.

So, with progressive revelation, we understand that after the resurrection of Jesus, the believer who dies goes to heaven at death and there awaits the future resurrection to the eternal state.

What about unbelievers now? The Scriptures seem to teach that they go into torment in the intermediate state in Hades, awaiting the final judgment. Peter described it this way:



“To hold” in the Greek of this verse is a present, active infinitive, meaning that the wicked are being kept where they are, captive continuously. This verse clearly refutes annihilation of the wicked after death as there would be nothing “to hold” until the judgment day if they had no existence. Peter says the unrighteous are “continuing their punishment”, this phrase is interpreting a present, passive participle that indicates the unbelievers are being continuously tormented/punished. The Greek grammar of this text clearly states that the wicked dead are experiencing torment as they await the final judgment. Greek present tense indicates kind of action and not time of action, as in English - as a general rule.

We read about the final judgment in Rev. 20:13-15 when Hades (the place for the wicked who died after Christ’s resurrection) will be emptied of the wicked dead and will face God for judgment. At that point, the wicked will be cast into hell.

I encourage you to be not so ignorant of the content of a link as you have been here.

Oz
Click to expand...
Incredibly well explained.

I also encourage Hopeful to read your link.

We need to read other sources to really understand the bible. It's difficult to put together all the ideas found there...like the one of which you write.
 
wondering said:
Incredibly well explained.

I also encourage Hopeful to read your link.

We need to read other sources to really understand the bible. It's difficult to put together all the ideas found there...like the one of which you write.
Click to expand...

wondering,

I have learned and taught NT Greek. I would never have been able to learn the grammar without the introductory book by John W Wenham, Elements of New Testament Greek and syntax without the teaching of Dana & Mantey. Today NT Greek students are learning through the help of more recent scholars such as Daniel Wallace.

How would I ever know the meaning of Greek words without Bauer, Arndt & Gingrich Greek Lexicon? The 10-vol Theological Dictionary of the New Testament is probably too advanced for many readers but I need it for advanced study.

I've spent a lot of time this year in writing a book I have under contract with Wipf & Stock, How to Ruin Your Education & TV Viewing. That's based on my thesis, which is a critique of John Dominic Crossan's postmodern deconstructionist approach to history and the Bible.

I find it naive to discard other teachers who are God's gift to the body of Christ to help us understand the Word and Christian living.

Oz
 
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OzSpen said:
wondering,

I have learned and taught NT Greek. I would never have been able to learn the grammar without the introductory book by John W Wenham, Elements of New Testament Greek and syntax without the teaching of Dana & Mantey. Today NT Greek students are learning through the help of more recent scholars such as Daniel Wallace.

How would I ever know the meaning of Greek words without Bauer, Arndt & Gingrich Greek Lexicon? The 10-vol Theological Dictionary of the New Testament is probably too advanced for many readers but I need it for advanced study.

I've spent a lot of time this year in writing a book I have under contract with Wipf & Stock, How to Ruin Your Education & TV Viewing. That's based on my thesis, which is a critique of John Dominic Crossan's postmodern deconstructionist approach to history and the Bible.

I find it naive to discard other teachers who are God's gift to the body of Christ to help us understand the Word and Christian living.

Oz
Click to expand...

Did the Pharisees know Hebrew?

Then why did they miss Him? Apparently it didn't help their belief.

Quantrill
 
OzSpen said:
wondering,

I have learned and taught NT Greek. I would never have been able to learn the grammar without the introductory book by John W Wenham, Elements of New Testament Greek and syntax without the teaching of Dana & Mantey. Today NT Greek students are learning through the help of more recent scholars such as Daniel Wallace.

How would I ever know the meaning of Greek words without Bauer, Arndt & Gingrich Greek Lexicon? The 10-vol Theological Dictionary of the New Testament is probably too advanced for many readers but I need it for advanced study.

I've spent a lot of time this year in writing a book I have under contract with Wipf & Stock, How to Ruin Your Education & TV Viewing. That's based on my thesis, which is a critique of John Dominic Crossan's postmodern deconstructionist approach to history and the Bible.

I find it naive to discard other teachers who are God's gift to the body of Christ to help us understand the Word and Christian living.

Oz
Click to expand...
I agree.

I don't read the type of scholarly books you do, but I've read a little and it can be a real blessing.
I find that there is much enlightenment in reading the thoughts of others without it necessarily changing my own ideas, although it could do that too.

The type of books I read would be like Death on a Friday Afternoon, The Lord's Supper, and even Pope Benedict's The Life of Jesus. (2 volumes).

I would even recommend the above to those reading this.
 
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