Women in the Pulpit

[jasoncran]

Tell me something' what do you guy's think of a female judge' that can and does order men around and or punishes men for their infractions ? And also who can send men to their deaths. And also while in court a man has to call her Your Honor. Do you think that there should be no female judges.

then why are you against females in uniform? if a female can order men to their deaths, and also enforce the law then why not cops and soldiers?

 

[Lewis]

then why are you against females in uniform?

That's where you are wrong Jason' I said women on the front lines or in battle.

 

[jasoncran]

then why are you against females in uniform?

That's where you are wrong Jason' I said women on the front lines or in battle.

lewis what war have we been in that has had ANY lines in the last decade? NONE. even nam was of that nature and so was ww2. all must be able to fight that is why I said that. a cop on the street is at the same risk as the soldier today in Afghanistan. remember its one minute its all hell or not.

for the most part that is. that is why I said that lewis, but that would be a digression. I can entertain [MENTION=91320]Claudya[/MENTION] with why females can be officers if she likes me to.in short. at times and most of the time the mouth and personal interaction skills will do more to control an inmate then size, mass and brutal reaction. I learned this recently from one of my men who has over 11 years experience in corrections and he has used females for cell extractions.if you want me too I can post those videos. I also know a correction officer who has more experience and is an lt in th wpb jail and she has over 20 years. I have been to war with her. I know her abilities.i value her opinion.

 

[Lewis]

Jason' last month or the month before that we all talked about women fighting in wars and I let everyone know that I am against it. So now I just want to know what men here think of female judges bossing them around.

 

[jasoncran]

ok. basically you are saying that shouldn't serve at all. I understand the reasoning but against mainline combat units but really most of them no longer do that either. Im not for it totally but I understand it. mps are combat in nature and women have been allowed to be mp since your day in the army! we go out farther then most combat units.

 

[jasoncran]

lol. judy shienline must go.

 

[Maedchen]

Those more strict congregations that derive from the older Mennonites are living the Word of God quite literally. And the women ask their husbands at home, not in church. There they only listen and sing.

Do they sing silently?

Dear brother TOG,

no, the Amish women do not sing silently. They sing acapella, following their old hymn book called "Der Ausbund" (Pennsylvania Dutch, modified German).

Regarding the verse that does not allow a woman to speak in church (1. Cor. 14:34,35) - if they also weren't allowed to sing, Paul would have used the verb 'tragoudo'=τραγουδώ = to sing.
But as you know, throughout the bible women used to praise God by singing (e.g. Miriam and other women after crossing the Red Sea, see Exodus 15:20,21).
So silent singing would biblically not be expected, I think.

May God bless you. Maedchen

 

[evenifigoalone]

[MENTION=68276]mark[/MENTION] and [MENTION=91320]Claudya[/MENTION] I thought the two of you may be interested in this site and this page. It's an indepth study of the Corinthian and the 1 Timothy scriptures.

Personally, it made sense of the verse about "childbearing" that had never made any sense to me before. It is part of Paul's 3 piece argument that now makes sense as to what he was arguing and why.

This is a quote from the author of that page and site....he has a BS and a ThM in Theology and is born again, personal relationship with the Lord for over 40 yrs.

"Conclusion:

Paul is known as "the Apostle of Liberty." He was converted overnight from a legalistic, persecuting, pharisaic rabbi to a preacher of freedom in Christ, equality within the Body, of universal giftedness of the Spirit, to mutual submission after the model of the "meekness and gentleness of Christ."

His actions showed that his understanding of male and female alike was informed by the radical position we have in Christ. His practice and his words alike encourage ALL to accept the 'yoke' of service to the Master Servant of All...He consistently 'stays after women' to learn and grow and use their gifts for His precious Lord...He instructs his disciples to make sure that they are taught and utilized in the Body...He praises them in his letters for their faithfulness and hard work and 'co-laboring' with him...

This man's vision of women was re-created by the grace of God...would that we see what he saw, and live as consistently...

glenn miller, 1/25/97 "

http://christianthinktank.com/fem09.html

I'm gonna have to go check that out myself.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Follow up:
If nothing else, it definitely raises some interesting points and possibilities. I'm kinda relieved after reading it, actually, though I can't help but wonder what if the conclusions that the article came to are still wrong somehow.
Anyways, I've bookmarked it, and will use it next time Im in a conversation with an unbeliever regarding this subject.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Tell me something' what do you guy's think of a female judge' that can and does order men around and or punishes men for their infractions ? And also who can send men to their deaths. And also while in court a man has to call her Your Honor. Do you think that there should be no female judges.

Even under the belief that the verses do mean women not to be in any sort if authority over men, it seems to be referring to the church body and home only.

Reminds me...a few years ago I heard it mentioned on TV that studies concluded that in the work place women actually make more understanding and fair bosses than men do.

 

[Lewis]

Tell me something' what do you guy's think of a female judge' that can and does order men around and or punishes men for their infractions ? And also who can send men to their deaths. And also while in court a man has to call her Your Honor. Do you think that there should be no female judges.

Even under the belief that the verses do mean women not to be in any sort if authority over men, it seems to be referring to the church body and home only.

Reminds me...a few years ago I heard it mentioned on TV that studies concluded that in the work place women actually make more understanding and fair bosses than men do.

Well in Bible times women could not tell a adult male what to do' unless you were a Queen or Princess or one's mother. And a female Judge besides Deborah was out of the question period.

 

[jeff77]

I know this thread was started a while ago but I just happened to be watching TBN and I watched a sermon of Joyce Meyer and I thought she was great. I was skeptical at first but at least in this particular sermon i listened to she preached from the Bible. It's not like you have to listen to only women preacher's anyway. Has anybody already mentioned or heard of Joyce meyer?

 

[Brother Mike]

Has anybody already mentioned or heard of Joyce meyer?

Yep, Got my first word confession book started because of her and meditated on the scriptures every day for hours a day back in 1997.... Of course I had to get them out of her book, but soon learned the Eph prayers and Col prayer Paul prayed and the Word will produce what you meditate on.


Joyce Meyer Sample Word confessions:
http://www.joycemeyer.org/articles/ea.aspx?article=list_of_confessions_by_joyce_meyer

I am always a positive encouragement. I edify and build up; I never tear down or destroy.

I will cry to God Most High Who performs on my behalf and rewards me.

My son has a sweet personality, and he is not rebellious.

I don’t speak negative things.

My children love to pray and study the Word. They openly and boldly praise God.

Women can preach just fine and give the Word. Paul worked with a few women that preached.

Paul said a women should not teach or usurp authority over man in church.

1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Any serious bible student should know that the word women is singular as well as man and both words should have been translated Wife and husband as they are in the Greek article also with Adam and Eve and both childbearing together as Husband and wife. "IF THEY CONTINUE IN FAITH"

A women should be subject to her husband and not have authority over him and a women should serve and be subject to the husband in church. That is all Paul is saying.

Anyone that thinks this means Women (Plural) have no say in church or can't be used by God to teach must also believe that we men can get any women in church pregnant for child bearing. Being the context of the passage as a whole.

1Co 14:34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

Once again this word women should have been translated wife............ Paul is saying the same thing here and in reference to the wife's husband.

Women teachers!!!

Act 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

A women and husband team teaching men.......... Oh my!!!

Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a Servant (Minister- shameful translation the word means deacon or minister) of the church which is at Cenchrea:
Rom 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

Paul puts the minister Sister Phebe in charge, tells them to get her whatever she needs and has been Paul's assistant in the gospel.

case closed.

Mike.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Tell me something' what do you guy's think of a female judge' that can and does order men around and or punishes men for their infractions ? And also who can send men to their deaths. And also while in court a man has to call her Your Honor. Do you think that there should be no female judges.

Even under the belief that the verses do mean women not to be in any sort if authority over men, it seems to be referring to the church body and home only.

Reminds me...a few years ago I heard it mentioned on TV that studies concluded that in the work place women actually make more understanding and fair bosses than men do.

Well in Bible times women could not tell a adult male what to do' unless you were a Queen or Princess or one's mother. And a female Judge besides Deborah was out of the question period.

The question is, was that merely the culture at the time, or based on whatever Biblical text they had back then?

According to what I've read, in Jesus' day, the Pharisees believed in not even associating with women and Jesus treated women a lot differently than they did. Now in relation to what Jesus would have taught about female judges and such, I can't say.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Okay this is off topic, but since the Amish were brought up in this thread...
While I was there, I should have asked about their position on the OT laws. Just out if curiosity.

 

[TOG]

Now in relation to what Jesus would have taught about female judges and such, I can't say.

I can't be sure either, but while he was here on earth, he often responded to questions by quoting or referring to the Scriptures. Maybe he would have mentioned this:

Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. (Judges 4:4 ESV)
​

Prophets spoke God's word to the people as He revealed it to them directly. If a woman can do that, why do we have a problem with women preaching? Some people talk about authority in this context, but preachers and teachers (not the same thing) during the first century didn't have authority over the congregations. It was the bishops and apostles that had authority.

Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me. (Rom. 16:7 KJV)
​

Junia, a woman, was not only counted among the apostles, but was "of note" among the apostles. If God selected a woman to be an apostle (and apostles had the highest authority within the church), how can we say that woman can't have authority?

In an attempt to deny the existence of a female apostle, some modern versions of the Bible have changed her name to Junias or have translated "of note among the apostles" as "known by the apostles" or something similar. But that was not the original understanding. John Chrysostom, bishop of Constantinople in the 4th century, wrote a series of homilies. On Rom. 16:7 he wrote.

Then another praise besides. <q>Who are of note among the Apostles.</q> And indeed to be apostles at all is a great thing. But to be even among these of note, just consider what a great encomium this is! But they were of note owing to their works, to their achievements. Oh! How great is the devotion (φιλοσοφία) of this woman, that she should be even counted worthy of the appellation of apostle!
(Source)

God doesn't seem to have a problem with female judges, prophets and apostles. Why should we?

The TOG
​

 

[evenifigoalone]

I have a feeling that this is something Im not going to come to any settled conclusion on overnight.
I might ask one of the leaders at my church about it, too.

 

[jasoncran]

I know this thread was started a while ago but I just happened to be watching TBN and I watched a sermon of Joyce Meyer and I thought she was great. I was skeptical at first but at least in this particular sermon i listened to she preached from the Bible. It's not like you have to listen to only women preacher's anyway. Has anybody already mentioned or heard of Joyce meyer?

yeah, that one? doesn't believe that the bible has all the oracles of god, neither does she believe that jesus didn't go to hell., she believes jesus was born again in hell. numerous times she has been off. I don't bother with her or the prospertity gospel junk

 

[Deborah13]

I know this thread was started a while ago but I just happened to be watching TBN and I watched a sermon of Joyce Meyer and I thought she was great. I was skeptical at first but at least in this particular sermon i listened to she preached from the Bible. It's not like you have to listen to only women preacher's anyway. Has anybody already mentioned or heard of Joyce meyer?

My husband really likes listening to her. I've heard her several times and haven't heard her teach anything that was not Biblical, not that she hasn't. I don't know what her views are on the subjects Jason mentioned.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Wrong. But, I see you're doing exactly as I expected. You're flopping all over the place, desperately trying to twist contradictory scriptures into somehow excusing Paul's inconsistency...and failing, BTW.

Good stuff, Mark. It is inconsistent, and the people trying to put square pegs in round holes do fail.



But here's one sure thing. Maybe it's just me.

If I was a woman . . . and also a Christian . . . and I read Galatians 3:28, and I also read 1 Corinthians 14:35, I would play it safe and keep my mouth shut while in church.

But maybe that's just me.