Works for Salvation: Humility

[Iconoclast]

Then how?

Did they go to Jerusalem and preach the fundamentalist error of “accept Christ as your personal lord and savior”? Or did the go to the river (water) and baptize!

Jn 3:22 the river!

A works gospel cannot save anyone

 

[Iconoclast]

Hi Don
Of course baptism washes away sins.
This is confirmed by the Apostolic Fathers in the early church.

But why do you believe John 3:5 is referring to baptism and not physical birth?

Jesus said we must be born of water and then AGAIN in spirit. Nicodemus asked how could he go back into his mother's womb AGAIN, meaning that he understood it to mean physical birth.

No...Nicodemas did not understand it , like the false teaching of Roman Catholics.

 

[Corinth77777]

If you believe faith alone you got a lot of questions to answer, no hurry…

“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Where does it say we are sealed by faith alone?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Ministered by the apostolic church!

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

The early Catholic Church fathers say faith and baptism!

Eph 5:24 the church is subject to Christ and has always taught and practiced “baptismal regeneration” and never “faith alone” if anyone says we are justified by “faith alone” let them be anathema! (condemned)

Matt 28:19 disciples by faith and baptism


Lk 8
The parable of the sower, all four had faith are they all not saved?


Lk 23:39 did not the bad thief say; save us? “Faith alone”?

Lk 18:14
Why did the publican not mention Jesus Christ or make a profession of belief, but prayer and virtue!

Why must we also suffer?
Faith alone not enough”?

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and I joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matt 24:13 endures “in Christ” to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Where does it say “faith alone”?

“Faith alone” ain’t biblical!











Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.


1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (Baptism)


Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!

It is Reasonable that if one rejects faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?

So don’t negate the word of God or Jesus by trying to delete one verse with another.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Nowhere does scripture say salvation is by “faith alone”! Rom 13:11
Or that we died with Christ by “faith alone”! Or that we put in Christ by “faith alone”! Or that we are in the church by “faith alone”!

“Faith alone”!

How many verses are required to prove a false doctrine?

Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
rom 10:10 faith & confession
1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
1 cor 16:22 love of Jesus Christ
Rom 8:17 faith and suffering
2 Timothy 2:12
1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
Col 1:24 suffering for Christ
Philemon 1:5 love and faith
Phil 1:29 called to suffer not faith alone
Titus 2:2 faith, love, patience
James 2:24 faith & works
2 pet 1:5 add to faith
Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
Rev 2:19 & rev 13:10 & Rev 14:12 commandments & patience
Three things are eternal! 1 cor 13:13
Faith, Hope, & Charity!

1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Revelation 2:19
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Never “faith alone”!

Truth must be revealed by Christ Jude 1:3 and taught by the apostolic church!

Christ never revealed and the church never taught the doctrine of “faith alone”!

The holy apostolic church has condemned the doctrine of “faith alone”!

“Faith Alone” is a false doctrine!

Thanks

I already wrote how it is Jesus's faith alone that saves.
And I already wrote how many see it as how their faurh alone.
You did not read it I see.

 

[Corinth77777]

Titus 3:5 washed
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin

I already wrote how it is Jesus's faith alone that saves.
And I already wrote how many see it as how their faith alone saves.
You did not read it I see.

How they see it is simple:
It's impossible to please God without faith and what they mean by alone, is that it is absent from works to earn for passing from death to life (which is salvation)

It's easy to see
You make it into a big thing because of your doctrinal belief system.

But something you might want to study is being saved in Eph 2:8 is from being dead to being made alive . "Quickened together with Christ"

So that is the First saving- being quicken together with Christ.

As those who were p-ricked in the heart after Peters's Talk. You can see they believed because they asked what must "WE DO".

So as I tried to offer a suggestion to study what came first.
That one first receives the Spirit and then has their sins washed away. Or reverse.
Important
Salvation #1
So if you noticed the First Saving :
They were quickened together with Christ

Salvation #2
The next saving is having sins washed away

I also gave you Galatians 2:16 in the kjv to read

​

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Look what happened First
Saving #1 passing from death to life- They believed. Eph2
Saving #2 Justified by the faith of Christ -

One has to understand they still have to have their present sins washed away. For they were delivered from their passed sins. So you see Salvation is not just one moment in time, as said by Dallas but everyday life we receive from God.

Define eternal life from the Bible and you will see.

How are present sins washed away:
1 John 1:5-7 KJV "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
How do you know about passed sins?
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2 Peter 1:9
So hopefully you see by the passages that believing who Jesus is with intent to follow is how we receive the Spirit.

Read Ephesians 1:13

Justification seen as forgiveness is through Christ's Faith
or faithfulness. Gal 2:16 and what Christ did He did alone . He alone was faithful unto death, and He alone was raised and live forever on the behalf of those who come to Him. Hebrews

So Now put 2 and 2 together if God allow.

It's when one believed who Jesus is that they receive the Spirit. Or When they are quicken from life from above.

Recall this passage: Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Jesus asked Peter who He was. And read what follows.
...On this Rock I shall build my church. What was the Rock.
Was it the stone that the builders rejected?

Conclusion
So in the case of Salvation #1 receiving the Spirit there are no works required to earn that Salvation of having been being made alive together with Christ. Eph 2: 5-9

But Now if you received the Quickening and been made alive
Now the Spirit will umption you to act. And so they ask Peter What must we do? Acts

The #2 salvation is with the Spirit. You see a person who is dead does not seek after things of God, because it is written:


There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.” Romans 3:10
I saw earlier where someone spoke of this???? That there are different types of saving.


Here is something else one can study or try on.
After one was cleansed under the old testament they had to do what Moses commanded present a sacrifice, maybe a pure animal of some type.

That made me think that The quickening was a cleansing of the conscience and the water Baptism represented cleansing of the flesh. But if you noticed there are interesting statements after ones cleansing in the old Testament "go present yourself to the priest.

Now one has already been made alive together with Christ. Who is our high priest, but look who the sacrifice is this time?
It's you following in Christ foot steps. You are committing yourself to follow in His footsteps.


Think about it..

Also ponder upon this : What people call the Great Commission: This is something I got from the late Willard

The Baptism Jesus was talking about there was being immersed in the presence of the Holy Trinity. By teaching them to do all that He had commanded. So while we may see water Baptism there too we should also see being immesrsed in the presence of the Holy Trinity.

 

[GodsGrace]

water baptism does not wash away sins

Of course it does.

 

[GodsGrace]

No...Nicodemas did not understand it , like the false teaching of Roman Catholics.

If it wasn't for the false teaching of a catholic, your denomination would not even exist.

 

[Randy]

If you believe faith alone you got a lot of questions to answer, no hurry…

“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Where does it say we are sealed by faith alone?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Ministered by the apostolic church!

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

The early Catholic Church fathers say faith and baptism!

Eph 5:24 the church is subject to Christ and has always taught and practiced “baptismal regeneration” and never “faith alone” if anyone says we are justified by “faith alone” let them be anathema! (condemned)

Matt 28:19 disciples by faith and baptism


Lk 8
The parable of the sower, all four had faith are they all not saved?


Lk 23:39 did not the bad thief say; save us? “Faith alone”?

Lk 18:14
Why did the publican not mention Jesus Christ or make a profession of belief, but prayer and virtue!

Why must we also suffer?
Faith alone not enough”?

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and I joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matt 24:13 endures “in Christ” to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Where does it say “faith alone”?

“Faith alone” ain’t biblical!











Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.


1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (Baptism)


Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!

It is Reasonable that if one rejects faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?

So don’t negate the word of God or Jesus by trying to delete one verse with another.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Nowhere does scripture say salvation is by “faith alone”! Rom 13:11
Or that we died with Christ by “faith alone”! Or that we put in Christ by “faith alone”! Or that we are in the church by “faith alone”!

“Faith alone”!

How many verses are required to prove a false doctrine?

Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
rom 10:10 faith & confession
1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
1 cor 16:22 love of Jesus Christ
Rom 8:17 faith and suffering
2 Timothy 2:12
1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
Col 1:24 suffering for Christ
Philemon 1:5 love and faith
Phil 1:29 called to suffer not faith alone
Titus 2:2 faith, love, patience
James 2:24 faith & works
2 pet 1:5 add to faith
Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
Rev 2:19 & rev 13:10 & Rev 14:12 commandments & patience
Three things are eternal! 1 cor 13:13
Faith, Hope, & Charity!

1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Revelation 2:19
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Never “faith alone”!

Truth must be revealed by Christ Jude 1:3 and taught by the apostolic church!

Christ never revealed and the church never taught the doctrine of “faith alone”!

The holy apostolic church has condemned the doctrine of “faith alone”!

“Faith Alone” is a false doctrine!

Thanks

Its grace through "faith" so you may add grace.

Where do we read "faith" as the absolute need without red tape.

Clearly God sees who believes in their heart.
Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live, 26and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.

No water baptism stated as a need. Faith with confession of such faith and your posts do not disprove this. I believe those who repent, believe in their hearts, and are baptized are saved. I am not trying to speak against that. But its grace through faith. A righteousness credited from first to last by faith.

Faith with confession of such faith.
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

I see water baptism as a public outward confession of that faith and commitment in/to Christ. As we read a pledge of a clear conscience towards God,

and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

The washing is by the Spirit. If anyone is in Christ they are clean. Remain clean.
...but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God.

When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

 

[Randy]

Of course it does.

Yes its shown as becoming saved by accepting Christ by who He is and what He did.
But the washing is by the Spirit of God not the water. The inward not the outward. The faith in ones heart and confession of that faith in Christ during that baptism is the importance. Jesus purchased us for God "by His blood" not anything we do. We are merely believing in that and acknowledging acceptance of that "invite" as in receiving Him as our Lord and savior.

Those who state such baptism should still be able to hold to grace through faith.

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

 

[donadams]

Hi Don
Of course baptism washes away sins.
This is confirmed by the Apostolic Fathers in the early church.

But why do you believe John 3:5 is referring to baptism and not physical birth?

Jesus said we must be born of water and then AGAIN in spirit. Nicodemus asked how could he go back into his mother's womb AGAIN, meaning that he understood it to mean physical birth.

Ez 36:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

And they immediately went to the river and baptized

And Mk 16:16 faith and baptism

Cannot enter the kingdom with being born again so it’s the initiation into the new covenant
Administered by the apostolic church 2 pet 1:11

Thanks

 

[donadams]

No I am denying the the false prophecy of divinity of the dying flesh of mankind .The Son of man, Jesus .God is not a man .

Then you are denying the two natures of Christ?
True God and true man

Faith alone now includes humility?

Faith alone but not alone?

Everything is included in faith alone!

But it’s not works??$

Flawed understanding of salvation:

Born again by faith alone and you have eternal salvation and cannot lose it. Accept Christ as your personal lord and savior etc.

Just cos it says saved does not necessarily mean eternal salvation, could be a part of salvation or the potential for salvation.

Salvation is not a only doctrine a doctrine to be believed, but a sacrifice / atonement, giving grace and union with the person of Christ the mediator, members of Christ!


Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Gifts / virtues

We need Gods help!
Gifts of the spirit:

Wisdom
Understand
Counsel
Knowledge
Piety
Fear of the Lord
Fortitude

And the virtues of Jesus Christ
Humility
Faith hope and charity
Etc.

Ask and you shall receive!
Amen!

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Believers baptism is commanded. Do you know of any infants who have requested baptism?

Their parents are their guardians and they request baptism?

You cannot baptize yourself, it’s a covenant requiring and outward sign not a do it yourself religion
You cannot enter without being born again Jn 3:5 and you cannot accomplish being born again yourself, it must ministered unto you! 2 pet 1:11

What verse commands believers baptism?
Thanks

 

[donadams]

A works gospel cannot save anyone

Really?

How does humility cos rest for our souls?
How do we obtain mercy?
How does charity cover sins?
How does the narrow road (works) lead to life?

But you right works alone apart from Christ and his grace and virtues avail nothing just does faith alone! 1 cor 13:2

Thanks

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Then you are denying the two natures of Christ?
True God and true man

Natures are beginning. God is supernatural no beginning.

True God the Faithfull Creator. True man the dying creature.

 

[Iconoclast]

Of course it does.

The hymn says...what can wash away your sins, nothing but the blood of Jesus. It says that, because the bible teaches it.

 

[donadams]

I already wrote how it is Jesus's faith alone that saves.
And I already wrote how many see it as how their faurh alone.
You did not read it I see.

You are not the rule of Christian faith or the source of truth!

Christ and His church are!

Christ founded the church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

The scripture says many of the same things of the apostolic church as it does Christ!

Light of the world: Jn 8:12 / Matt 5:14
Hear: Matt 17:5 acts 3:22 / Matt 18:17
Authority: Matt 28:17 / Jn 20:21
Reconciliation: 2 cor 5:19 / 2 cor 5:18
Forgive sins: Lk 5:20 / Jn 20:23

Truth: Jn 14:6 / 1 Tim 3:15

Jesus Christ and His church are one acts 9:4 eph 5:32 and the only means of salvation! Matt 28:19


Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

The real truth is you can’t answer any of those questions.

Thanks

 

[donadams]

The hymn says...what can wash away your sins, nothing but the blood of Jesus. It says that, because the bible teaches it.

The merits of the blood of Jesus are applied to our souls by the church in the administration of the sacraments! 2 pet 1:11

 

[donadams]

I already wrote how it is Jesus's faith alone that saves.
And I already wrote how many see it as how their faith alone saves.
You did not read it I see.

How they see it is simple:
It's impossible to please God without faith and what they mean by alone, is that it is absent from works to earn for passing from death to life (which is salvation)

It's easy to see
You make it into a big thing because of your doctrinal belief system.

But something you might want to study is being saved in Eph 2:8 is from being dead to being made alive . "Quickened together with Christ"

So that is the First saving- being quicken together with Christ.

As those who were p-ricked in the heart after Peters's Talk. You can see they believed because they asked what must "WE DO".

So as I tried to offer a suggestion to study what came first.
That one first receives the Spirit and then has their sins washed away. Or reverse.
Important
Salvation #1
So if you noticed the First Saving :
They were quickened together with Christ

Salvation #2
The next saving is having sins washed away

I also gave you Galatians 2:16 in the kjv to read

​

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Look what happened First
Saving #1 passing from death to life- They believed. Eph2
Saving #2 Justified by the faith of Christ -

One has to understand they still have to have their present sins washed away. For they were delivered from their passed sins. So you see Salvation is not just one moment in time, as said by Dallas but everyday life we receive from God.

Define eternal life from the Bible and you will see.

How are present sins washed away:
1 John 1:5-7 KJV "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
How do you know about passed sins?
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2 Peter 1:9
So hopefully you see by the passages that believing who Jesus is with intent to follow is how we receive the Spirit.

Read Ephesians 1:13

Justification seen as forgiveness is through Christ's Faith
or faithfulness. Gal 2:16 and what Christ did He did alone . He alone was faithful unto death, and He alone was raised and live forever on the behalf of those who come to Him. Hebrews

So Now put 2 and 2 together if God allow.

It's when one believed who Jesus is that they receive the Spirit. Or When they are quicken from life from above.

Recall this passage: Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Jesus asked Peter who He was. And read what follows.
...On this Rock I shall build my church. What was the Rock.
Was it the stone that the builders rejected?

Conclusion
So in the case of Salvation #1 receiving the Spirit there are no works required to earn that Salvation of having been being made alive together with Christ. Eph 2: 5-9

But Now if you received the Quickening and been made alive
Now the Spirit will umption you to act. And so they ask Peter What must we do? Acts

The #2 salvation is with the Spirit. You see a person who is dead does not seek after things of God, because it is written:


There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.” Romans 3:10
I saw earlier where someone spoke of this???? That there are different types of saving.


Here is something else one can study or try on.
After one was cleansed under the old testament they had to do what Moses commanded present a sacrifice, maybe a pure animal of some type.

That made me think that The quickening was a cleansing of the conscience and the water Baptism represented cleansing of the flesh. But if you noticed there are interesting statements after ones cleansing in the old Testament "go present yourself to the priest.

Now one has already been made alive together with Christ. Who is our high priest, but look who the sacrifice is this time?
It's you following in Christ foot steps. You are committing yourself to follow in His footsteps.


Think about it..

Also ponder upon this : What people call the Great Commission: This is something I got from the late Willard

The Baptism Jesus was talking about there was being immersed in the presence of the Holy Trinity. By teaching them to do all that He had commanded. So while we may see water Baptism there too we should also see being immesrsed in the presence of the Holy Trinity.

Eph 2:8 refers to redemption not salvation

Saved does not necessarily mean salvation! Could mean a part of salvation or potential salvation

Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

eph 2:8 does not refer to you’re salvation it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers something that has already occurred, the redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement. “Not of yourselves”

Christian faith includes baptism Jn 3:5 by water and the spirit and not faith alone. Mk 16:16 acts 2:38 acts 8:26 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:20-21

And charity 1 cor 13:2 and 1 cor 13/13

Salvation is not a only doctrine a doctrine to be believed, but a sacrifice / atonement, giving grace and union with the person of Christ the mediator, members of Christ!


Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Thanks

 

[Randy]

If you believe faith alone you got a lot of questions to answer, no hurry…

“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Where does it say we are sealed by faith alone?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Ministered by the apostolic church!

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

The early Catholic Church fathers say faith and baptism!

Eph 5:24 the church is subject to Christ and has always taught and practiced “baptismal regeneration” and never “faith alone” if anyone says we are justified by “faith alone” let them be anathema! (condemned)

Matt 28:19 disciples by faith and baptism


Lk 8
The parable of the sower, all four had faith are they all not saved?


Lk 23:39 did not the bad thief say; save us? “Faith alone”?

Lk 18:14
Why did the publican not mention Jesus Christ or make a profession of belief, but prayer and virtue!

Why must we also suffer?
Faith alone not enough”?

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and I joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matt 24:13 endures “in Christ” to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Where does it say “faith alone”?

“Faith alone” ain’t biblical!











Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.


1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (Baptism)


Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!

It is Reasonable that if one rejects faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?

So don’t negate the word of God or Jesus by trying to delete one verse with another.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Nowhere does scripture say salvation is by “faith alone”! Rom 13:11
Or that we died with Christ by “faith alone”! Or that we put in Christ by “faith alone”! Or that we are in the church by “faith alone”!

“Faith alone”!

How many verses are required to prove a false doctrine?

Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
rom 10:10 faith & confession
1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
1 cor 16:22 love of Jesus Christ
Rom 8:17 faith and suffering
2 Timothy 2:12
1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
Col 1:24 suffering for Christ
Philemon 1:5 love and faith
Phil 1:29 called to suffer not faith alone
Titus 2:2 faith, love, patience
James 2:24 faith & works
2 pet 1:5 add to faith
Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
Rev 2:19 & rev 13:10 & Rev 14:12 commandments & patience
Three things are eternal! 1 cor 13:13
Faith, Hope, & Charity!

1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Revelation 2:19
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Never “faith alone”!

Truth must be revealed by Christ Jude 1:3 and taught by the apostolic church!

Christ never revealed and the church never taught the doctrine of “faith alone”!

The holy apostolic church has condemned the doctrine of “faith alone”!

“Faith Alone” is a false doctrine!

Thanks

Again we are saved by who Jesus is, He crucification and resurrection. That is what He did not what we do. Baptism is an acknowledge and confession of such belief in Him. Water baptism symbolizes that but it's still grace through faith. By His blood we were purchased for God.

It is not for man to choose how to forgive sin so there is no other way or name one may be saved by. A narrow road by the design and will of God.

The grace of God who so loved the world and the punishment that brought us peace placed on Christ. By His stripes we are healed. (Isaiah 53)
Col 1:20
.. and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Grace through Faith

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Ez 36:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

And they immediately went to the river and baptized

And Mk 16:16 faith and baptism

Cannot enter the kingdom with being born again so it’s the initiation into the new covenant
Administered by the apostolic church 2 pet 1:11

Thanks

HO2 literally at the most can get a person wet. It will evaporate having fulfilled the physical law what comes down goes up.

What comes down nourishes the creation and returns to it source. The rainbow reminds us previously it was watered from below rising up .The flood came as judgement on the sons of God. The believers that were not obeying the law not to be unevenly yoked with the faithless pagans. as sons or daughters of mankind. Unredeemed mankind. . . those not born again from above. .

It would seem the flood took away their privileged place as ambassadors of a God not seen .and moved inspiration coming down not rising up. In that way one of His names is Jealous he owns all thing and wil not share his glory with dying mankind

He rises us up.. God would no longer share his glory with the believers who refused to obey and honor not be unevenly yoked. They continued after the flood as today . That honor will be restored in the new heavens and earth

The living, moving water of the word giving us ears to hear his understanding.

Deuteronomy 32King James Version32 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

He uses all forms of living water to declare his unseen glory. Even sweat or spit. Not only in the ceremonial baptisms a shadow of the doctrines of God that fall inspired from above.

Some of the Jews tried to turn that upside down as if they were earthly inspired from the father of lies and added to the word of God making it to no effect. A sign to the unbelieving world, the Christian baptism showing the world you are his disciple and have a desire to be a member of the priesthood of believers made up from all denominations. All the nations of the world

 

[donadams]

Its grace through "faith" so you may add grace.

Where do we read "faith" as the absolute need without red tape.

Clearly God sees who believes in their heart.
Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live, 26and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.

No water baptism stated as a need. Faith with confession of such faith and your posts do not disprove this. I believe those who repent, believe in their hearts, and are baptized are saved. I am not trying to speak against that. But its grace through faith. A righteousness credited from first to last by faith.

Faith with confession of such faith.
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

I see water baptism as a public outward confession of that faith and commitment in/to Christ. As we read a pledge of a clear conscience towards God,

and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

The washing is by the Spirit. If anyone is in Christ they are clean. Remain clean.
...but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God.

When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Where does scripture render baptism meaningless by say it’s only a “public profession” of the faith that already saved you?

Saved? Scripture say no
Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Baptism required for the new covenant

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

Faith and baptism are required Mk 16:16 eph 4:5

Faith alone even all faith avails NOTHING! 1 cor 13:2

Thanks