Works for Salvation: Humility

[Randy]

And Jesus says baptize them in the name of the father, and the son, and the Holy Spirit
Matt 28:19

But you seem to disqualify any being baptized in the name of Jesus.

 

[Randy]

Are we talking about a covenant?

Are there any real requirements?

Infants at baptism receive the father the son and the hs
And the virtues of faith hope and charity
And sanctifying Grace washing away all sin
Born again
New creation
Then they are raised in the admonition of the lord and taught the Christian faith and at the age of reason profess their faith and are confirmed in the faith by bishop

Thanks

I talking about receiving the Spirit as in born of God. Didn't happen with me and I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit but as an infant so repentance or faith or confession or commitment or agreement from me couldn't happen at that time. I asked for that gift later and at that time I received the Spirit of Christ in me.

 

[Corinth77777]

water baptism does not wash away sins

Eph 2:8 refers to redemption not salvation

You have missed it again: even though we were dead in transgressions, made us alive together with Christ – by grace you are saved!

The saving, is redemption it's right there.
Because you can't be redeemed until you have been quickened.

Saved does not necessarily mean salvation! Could mean a part of salvation or potential salvation

Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

eph 2:8 does not refer to you’re salvation it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers something that has already occurred, the redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement. “Not of yourselves"

Yes it does as showed above, and you see how you are thinking inside of your doctrinal box. You may not be reading what you write. You just proved your box has 🕳 🕳 🕳 holes.

Yes they were quickened, that's what already occured as the passage says.

even though we were dead in transgressions, made us alive together with Christ – by grace you are saved!

You were saved by being quickened made alive, and then tells them by grace and not by works.

That
Christian faith includes baptism Jn 3:5 by water and the spirit and not faith alone. Mk 16:16 acts 2:38 acts 8:26 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:20-21

I'll continue responding to the rest later when I am home....
Because certain things must be explained. If you are willing to see.

And charity 1 cor 13:2 and 1 cor 13/13

Salvation is not a only doctrine a doctrine to be believed, but a sacrifice / atonement, giving grace and union with the person of Christ the mediator, members of Christ!

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good w (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Thanks

The Church of Christ Denominational teaching is what I am talking about.

Eph 2:8 refers to redemption not salvation

Saved does not necessarily mean salvation! Could mean a part of salvation or potential salvation

Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

eph 2:8 does not refer to you’re salvation it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers something that has already occurred, the redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement. “Not of yourselves”

Christian faith includes baptism Jn 3:5 by water and the spirit and not faith alone. Mk 16:16 acts 2:38 acts 8:26 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:20-21

And charity 1 cor 13:2 and 1 cor 13/13

Salvation is not a only doctrine a doctrine to be believed, but a sacrifice / atonement, giving grace and union with the person of Christ the mediator, members of Christ!


Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Thanks

 

[Randy]

Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

eph 2:8 does not refer to you’re salvation it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers something that has already occurred, the redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement. “Not of yourselves”

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Glorification:

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

I see water baptism in the role of public "confession" of your faith in Christ. It seems to be shown as such. (confess and saved)

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

 

[donadams]

Did you miss where I clearly stated the bible is?
THE LONDON BAPTIST CONFESSION OF 1689

Chapter 1Of the Holy Scriptures1

The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible
a rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience, although the light

b of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God and his will which is necessary unto salvation.

c Therefore it pleased the Lord at sundry times and in divers manners to reveal himself, and to declare that his will unto his church; and afterward for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan, and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto dwriting; which maketh the Holy Scriptures to be most necessary, those former ways of God’s revealing his will unto his people being now ceased.(a 2Ti 3:15-17; Isa 8:20; Luk 16:29,31; Eph 2:20; b Rom 1:19-21; 2:14-15; Psa 19:1-3; c Heb 1:1; d Pro 22:19-21; Rom 15:4; 2Pe 1:19-20)2 Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained all the books of the Old and New Testaments, which are these: Of the Old Testament Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Kings, 1 & 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi. Of the New Testament Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, 1 & 2 Peter, 1, 2, & 3 John, Jude, Revelation. All of which are given by the
e inspiration of God to be the rule of faith and life. ( e2Ti 3:16) 8 THE LONDON CONFESSION

3 The books commonly called Apocrypha, not being of fdivine inspiration, are no part of the canon or rule of the Scripture, and, therefore, are of no authority to the church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved or made use of than other human writings. (f Luk 24:27,44; Rom 3:2)

4 The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, dependeth not upon the testimony of any man or church, but wholly upon gGod (who is truth itself), the author thereof; therefore it is to be received because it is the Word of God. ( g 2Pe 1:19-21; 2Ti 3:16; 2Th 2:13; 1Jo 5:9)

5 We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the church of God to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scriptures; and the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, and the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man’s salvation, and many other incomparable excellencies, and entire perfections thereof, are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God; yet notwithstanding, our hfull persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth, and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts. (h Joh 16:13-14; 1Co 2:10-12; 1Jo 2:20,27)

6 The whole counsel of God concerning all things inecessary for his own glory, man’s salvation, faith, and life, is either expressly set down or necessarily contained in the Holy Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelation of the Spirit, or traditions of men.Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward killumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word, and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be lordered by the light of nature and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.(i2Ti 3:15-17; Gal 1:8-9; kJoh 6:45; 1Co 2:9-12; l1Co 11:13-14; 14:26,40)

7 All things in Scripture are not alike mplain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all; yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed and observed for salvation, are so nclearly propounded and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of ordinary means, may attain to a sufficient understanding of them. (m2Pe 3:16; n Psa 19:7; 119:130)

8 The Old Testament in oHebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which at the time of the writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and by his singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, are therefore pauthentic; so as in all controver-Confession of Faith of 1689 9 sies of religion, the church is finally to appeal to them. qBut because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have a right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded in the fear of God to read rand search them, therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they scome, that the Word of God dwelling tplentifully in all, they may worship him in an acceptable manner, and through patience and comfort of the Scriptures may have hope.(oRom 3:2; p Isa 8:20; qAct 15:15; rJoh 5:39; s1Co 14:6,9,11-12,24,28; tCol 3:16)

9 The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the uScripture itself; and therefore when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched by other places that speak more clearly. (u 2Pe 1:20-21; Act 15:15-16)

10The supreme judge, by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Scripture delivered by the Spirit, into which xScripture so delivered, our faith is finally resolved. (x Mat 22:29,31-32; Eph 2:20; Act 28:23)

We’re not trusting the Baptists for anything!

Where does the Bible say the “Bible is the only authority”?

The answer is Christ and His church! Matt 28:19

Scripture Verses that contradict the “Bible is our ONLY AUTHORITY”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
Matt 13:11
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 4:11
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
1 Jn 4:6
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

And if “the Bible is the only authority” then there can be no authentic interpretation!

 

[donadams]

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

 

[donadams]

I see water baptism in the role of public "confession" of your faith in Christ. It seems to be shown as such. (confess and saved)

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Only cos that’s what you want to believe

Show me where the church or early church teaches of practices that?

And you must ignor multiple verses like Mk 16:16 that require baptism

I can effect faith and a profession of faith but I cannot enter the kingdom (new covenant) with being born again Jn 3:5 and you cannot born again yourself by your own will! It must be ministered unto you 2 pet 1:11

Thanks

 

[GodsGrace]

Good one W The thing is...the early church at the time of the Apostles, were Reformed Baptists, no rosary beads, statues, relics,popes, cardinals, etc.

Let's remember that we're in Apologetics and not Calvinism.

I'd like you to show me where it states that the early church was reformed baptists.
There was no church in the early days except for the Catholic Church.

Jesus gave the keys to Peter and the authority has been passed down ever since.

I'm not here to protect the CC - however, history is history.
And if you want to continue this convesation, maybe you should reply in the Catholicism thread or start a new one right here and we could discuss.

It would just derail too much to continue here.

 

[GodsGrace]

Are you kidding me? They were baptized in the name of Jesus.

I guess you must be baptized in the Jordan as well.

I believe those who believe in their heart and are baptized in the name of Jesus should be saved. I don't state otherwise.

But they are all taught by God
Those who listen and learn from the Father go to Jesus.

Hi Randy,
There's a FORM that must be followed in order to be baptized.
Jesus stated what this form is in Matthew 28:19....
He said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

When acts speaks of being baptized in the name of Jesus, it's just differentiating between the baptism of John and the baptism of Jesus.

The FORM remains as Jesus stated it should be.

 

[GodsGrace]

Only cos that’s what you want to believe

Show me where the church or early church teaches of practices that?

And you must ignor multiple verses like Mk 16:16 that require baptism

I can effect faith and a profession of faith but I cannot enter the kingdom (new covenant) with being born again Jn 3:5 and you cannot born again yourself by your own will! It must be ministered unto you 2 pet 1:11

Thanks

How does 2 Peter 1:11 minister being born again to us?

 

[donadams]

Let's remember that we're in Apologetics and not Calvinism.

I'd like you to show me where it states that the early church was reformed baptists.
There was no church in the early days except for the Catholic Church.

Jesus gave the keys to Peter and the authority has been passed down ever since.

I'm not here to protect the CC - however, history is history.
And if you want to continue this convesation, maybe you should reply in the Catholicism thread or start a new one right here and we could discuss.

It would just derail too much to continue here.

I made a thread under Catholicism/ papacy
He can provide scripture to support his assertion there thanks

 

[Corinth77777]

Hi Randy,
There's a FORM that must be followed in order to be baptized.
Jesus stated what this form is in Matthew 28:19....
He said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

When acts speaks of being baptized in the name of Jesus, it's just differentiating between the baptism of John and the baptism of Jesus.

The FORM remains as Jesus stated it should

I like how Dallas interprets

Immerse them together in the presence of the Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Yes, baptize them in the name, but, dear friends, that doesn't just mean getting them wet while you say those names. It means to immerse them in the Reality.

 

[donadams]

How does 2 Peter 1:11 minister being born again to us?

Cannot enter the kingdom (new covenant)

Jn 3:5

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

God provides an entrance into the kingdom.

2 pet 1:11

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Grace is administered by the apostles

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Thanks

 

[Iconoclast]

Let's remember that we're in Apologetics and not Calvinism.

I'd like you to show me where it states that the early church was reformed baptists.
There was no church in the early days except for the Catholic Church.

Jesus gave the keys to Peter and the authority has been passed down ever since.

I'm not here to protect the CC - however, history is history.
And if you want to continue this convesation, maybe you should reply in the Catholicism thread or start a new one right here and we could discuss.

It would just derail too much to continue here.

Where does it say...catholic church???? lol...Catholic means universal....No where does it say...Roman Catholic...no where does it say...POPE...no where. Peter was not the 1st POPE......you say that, false RC. church makes that claim...the Bible does not teach it.

Calvinism was not mentioned till you suggested the term W , and we know you do not understand it at all. So , park your bias, and allow for open honest discussion.

 

[Iconoclast]

Are we talking about a covenant?

Are there any real requirements?

I noticed that you did not actually answer randy, but side stepped his fine post.

Infants at baptism receive the father the son and the hs

The bible does not say or teach that anywhere.

And the virtues of faith hope and charity
And sanctifying Grace washing away all sin

Not in scripture, but only in the RC. imagination

Born again

water baptism does not cause new birth, not found in scripture.

New creation

water does not cause new creation

Then they are raised in the admonition of the lord and taught the Christian faith and at the age of reason profess their faith and are confirmed in the faith by bishop

Thank

Complete fabrication

 

[donadams]

Where does it say...catholic church???? lol...Catholic means universal....No where does it say...Roman Catholic...no where does it say...POPE...no where. Peter was not the 1st POPE......you say that, false RC. church makes that claim...the Bible does not teach it.

Calvinism was not mentioned till you suggested the term W , and we know you do not understand it at all. So , park your bias, and allow for open honest discussion.

I’ll answer these for ya if you go to the proper forum and thread as requested by the nice lady

 

[donadams]

I noticed that you did not actually answer randy, but side stepped his fine post.



The bible does not say or teach that anywhere.



Not in scripture, but only in the RC. imagination



water baptism does not cause new birth, not found in scripture.

water does not cause new creation

Complete fabrication

There is a new thread in Catholicism/ sacraments / faith and baptism
I will respond There give me time

 

[Randy]

Hi Randy,
There's a FORM that must be followed in order to be baptized.
Jesus stated what this form is in Matthew 28:19....
He said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

When acts speaks of being baptized in the name of Jesus, it's just differentiating between the baptism of John and the baptism of Jesus.

The FORM remains as Jesus stated it should be.

The apostles didn't rebaptize them they laid hands on them in regard to receiving the Spirit. So I guess they were saved apart from baptism.

 

[Randy]

Only cos that’s what you want to believe

Show me where the church or early church teaches of practices that?

And you must ignor multiple verses like Mk 16:16 that require baptism

I can effect faith and a profession of faith but I cannot enter the kingdom (new covenant) with being born again Jn 3:5 and you cannot born again yourself by your own will! It must be ministered unto you 2 pet 1:11

Thanks

I showed you scripture. I don't feel a need to justify their writing.

Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” a 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” b (that is, to bring Christ down) 7“or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’ ” c (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” e 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

 

[Corinth77777]

Why I left the church of Christ