Would you be disapointed to find a Hindu in Heaven?

[DivineNames]

The Eastern Orthodox View

As is often when viewed from a Western perspective, the Eastern Orthodox teaching appears confusing and paradoxical. On the one hand, the Orthodox Church teaches that Eastern Orthodoxy is the only path to choose for salvation. On the other hand, the Church also teaches that no human being, by statement nor by omission of a statement, may place a limit upon the Will and choice of God, who may save whomsoever it pleases Him to save. Orthodox try to explain how the paradox is resolved by metaphorically comparing the Church to Noah's Ark. It is not, in theory, utterly impossible for someone to "survive the flood" of sin by clinging to whatever driftwood is around or by trying to cobble together a raft from bits and pieces of whatever floats, but the Ark is a far safer choice to make. Likewise, it is not inconceivable that the heterodox and even non-Christians might be saved simply through God's own choice, made for His inscrutable reasons, but it is far safer for any individual person to turn to the Orthodox Church, thus, it behooves Orthodox Christians to exhort others to take this safer path. Likewise, the Orthodox remember that Christ mentions one, and only one thing that unfailingly leads to perdition--blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. No other path is explicitly and universally excluded by Christ's words.

Ultimately, however, the question of salvation of unbelievers is considered purely secondary to what the Church expects of ordinary Orthodox Christians. As St. Theophan the Recluse put the matter: "You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins... I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_ ... hodox_View


If this is accurate, it seems that Eastern Orthodox Christianity allows for the possibility that a Hindu could be saved. I am fairly sure that the Roman Catholic Church says the same. Many Protestants would also go along with this.

I think bibleberean may be promoting heretical doctrines that are outside of mainstream Christianity.

:D

 

[bibleberean]

Belief and Confession of the gospel is required for salvation.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Belief is required for salvation. It is belief in the gospel of Christ.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Hindus do not believe in Christ. Even if a practicing Hindu thinks Jesus was a good man or a great teacher that is not enough because they would be professing another Jesus which is clearly denounced in scripture.

Paul warned us about those who promote salvation apart from the belief in the finished work of Christ on the cross.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

I am not going to be seduced by apostate churches or devil promoting eastern mystics.

The above verses are all I need but there are many more.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

How are we born again?

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Those who do not believe in Him will perish...

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Hindus believe and worship false gods.

Exodus 20:23 Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.

Exodus 23:24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

Exodus 23:32 Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.

Leviticus 19:4 Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;

Deuteronomy 6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;

Deuteronomy 11:16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;

Hindu gods are devils...

1 Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

As you can see from the above verse that those who try to promote the idea that Christianity and the heathen religions have a lot in common are either deceived or liars.

The idea that someone could be saved through devil worship should cause a real Christian to gag... :smt078

I have demonstrated in previous posts the dangers of accepting another Jesus and another gospel...

This is the question brother David Cloud asked Sister Ann one of Mother Teresa's sisters of charity. As any true believer will quickly see is clueless when it comes to the gospel...

Way of Life Literature by David Cloud

"The complete interview with Sister Ann is reprinted in my book Evangelicals and Rome, which is available from Way of Life Literature. Following is a brief excerpt:

BRO. CLOUD: Do you believe if they [the Hindus at Pashupati] die believing in Shiva or in Ram [Hindu gods] they will go to heaven?

ANN: Yes, that is their faith. My own faith will lead me to my God, no? So if they have believed in their god very strongly, if they have faith, surely they will be saved. "

BB sums up:

No one will be saved by having faith in a false god.

To be a Hindu is to be devil worshiper....

One of the many demon gods of Hindus

Another devil goddess...

People can only be saved by Jesus... not devils....

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. :D

 

[Soma-Sight]

To be a Hindu is to be devil worshiper....

Is a "Hindu" that loves Jesus and believes in His ministry a devil worshipper? :-?

You seem to believe you are an objectfyable dictionary Bibleberean...

I just get a little worried about all the "labeling" games.

 

[bibleberean]

Only an ex Hindu can love Jesus.

There is another Jesus...

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

The Eastern Orthodox View

As is often when viewed from a Western perspective, the Eastern Orthodox teaching appears confusing and paradoxical. On the one hand, the Orthodox Church teaches that Eastern Orthodoxy is the only path to choose for salvation. On the other hand, the Church also teaches that no human being, by statement nor by omission of a statement, may place a limit upon the Will and choice of God, who may save whomsoever it pleases Him to save. Orthodox try to explain how the paradox is resolved by metaphorically comparing the Church to Noah's Ark. It is not, in theory, utterly impossible for someone to "survive the flood" of sin by clinging to whatever driftwood is around or by trying to cobble together a raft from bits and pieces of whatever floats, but the Ark is a far safer choice to make. Likewise, it is not inconceivable that the heterodox and even non-Christians might be saved simply through God's own choice, made for His inscrutable reasons, but it is far safer for any individual person to turn to the Orthodox Church, thus, it behooves Orthodox Christians to exhort others to take this safer path. Likewise, the Orthodox remember that Christ mentions one, and only one thing that unfailingly leads to perdition--blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. No other path is explicitly and universally excluded by Christ's words.

Ultimately, however, the question of salvation of unbelievers is considered purely secondary to what the Church expects of ordinary Orthodox Christians. As St. Theophan the Recluse put the matter: "You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins... I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_ ... hodox_View


If this is accurate, it seems that Eastern Orthodox Christianity allows for the possibility that a Hindu could be saved. I am fairly sure that the Roman Catholic Church says the same. Many Protestants would also go along with this.

I think bibleberean may be promoting heretical doctrines that are outside of mainstream Christianity.

:D

Divine Names:

I think you have summed our perspective well, including italicization of the word 'possibility.' We do not advocate the notion that all paths lead to God. Our perspective is neither relativistic nor Universalist.

Rather, we leave room for God to be God, and for brothers and sisters outside the Orthodox Christian faith to work out their own saving relationship with Christ.

Therefore, it is conceivable that Hindu will find eternal mercy in God's economy. It is even conceivable that I may.

St Theophan has very aptly articulated the perspective of the Orthodox fathers on this matter. We do not even speak or speculate regarding the fate of "Christian" heterodox.

But I personally have a difficult time with the submarines roving around in the sea of rafts and survivors, torpedoing everything that moves and doesn't have their brand on it..

 

[bibleberean]

The Biblical view Letting God be God by Taking His Word For it.

Belief and Confession of the gospel is required for salvation.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Belief is required for salvation. It is belief in the gospel of Christ.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Hindus do not believe in Christ. Even if a practicing Hindu thinks Jesus was a good man or a great teacher that is not enough because they would be professing another Jesus which is clearly denounced in scripture.

Paul warned us about those who promote salvation apart from the belief in the finished work of Christ on the cross.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

I am not going to be seduced by apostate churches or devil promoting eastern mystics.

The above verses are all I need but there are many more.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

How are we born again?

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Those who do not believe in Him will perish...

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Hindus believe and worship false gods.

Exodus 20:23 Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.

Exodus 23:24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

Exodus 23:32 Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.

Leviticus 19:4 Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;

Deuteronomy 6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;

Deuteronomy 11:16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;

Hindu gods are devils...

1 Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

As you can see from the above verse that those who try to promote the idea that Christianity and the heathen religions have a lot in common are either deceived or liars.

The idea that someone could be saved through devil worship should cause a real Christian to gag... :smt078

I have demonstrated in previous posts the dangers of accepting another Jesus and another gospel...

This is the question brother David Cloud asked Sister Ann one of Mother Teresa's sisters of charity. As any true believer will quickly see is clueless when it comes to the gospel...

Way of Life Literature by David Cloud

"The complete interview with Sister Ann is reprinted in my book Evangelicals and Rome, which is available from Way of Life Literature. Following is a brief excerpt:

BRO. CLOUD: Do you believe if they [the Hindus at Pashupati] die believing in Shiva or in Ram [Hindu gods] they will go to heaven?

ANN: Yes, that is their faith. My own faith will lead me to my God, no? So if they have believed in their god very strongly, if they have faith, surely they will be saved. "

BB sums up:

No one will be saved by having faith in a false god.

To be a Hindu is to be devil worshiper....

One of the many demon gods of Hindus

Another devil goddess...

People can only be saved by Jesus... not devils....

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. :D

I believe in preaching the gospel to every creature. I believe what God says not in the teachings of apostate churches.

1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

I am not for lying to lost people in a sea of rafts and survivors that hope outside of Jesus Christ is possible.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

I am not for lying to lost people in a sea of rafts and survivors that hope outside of Jesus Christ is possible.

Who said anything about salvation being outside of Christ?

There is no other Door to the Father except Christ. There is no salvation outside of the Body of Christ (Church). There is no other Onoma on heaven or earth by which a man may be saved.

We do not advocate the notion that all paths lead to God

You should pay closer attention.

Scripture does not call for you to witness, but rather to be a witness.

There are innumerable voices in the marketplace claiming to be the voice of truth. Among these voices is a hundred different takes on an intellectual and individualistic version of 'Christianity' wrapped and packaged in the mores and values of the 21st century West. And the Hindu is supposed to discern among these plantation voices.

You do realize that the witness of Christianity in India for 2 centuries was cruel task masters who looked at the brown man as sub-human. But it's their fault if Christianity seems to them as less-than-compelling.


So we had a little woman of Albanian extraction come and simply serve. She- and those with her- were witnesses. When Hindus of Calcutta come before the Lord of All Creation, they will say "we have seen you before."

Then we will see what Christ does with them, and they with Him.

 

[bibleberean]

We are called to preach the gospel to the lost. Hindus are lost and they need to hear the gospel.

Without believing the gospel of Christ there is no salvation.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

1 Corinthians 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Living a good life and being a good example will save no one if they don't hear the gospel.

The lost will not be in heaven... To be a Hindu is to be an idolater.

And their will be no idolators in heaven.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Feeding the poor and the sick is commendable and should be done but that alone will not save anyone.

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

 

[Orthodox Christian]

You assume that, by my emphasis on providing a tangible and sound witness, I am referring to the 'social gospel' only. The social gospel is a Western invention, primarily undertaken by liberal Christian sects who treat the scriptures in a very symbolic way.

What I am referring to is better known in Protestant circles as 'friendship Evangelism.'

I am not, however, promoting Protestant 'Friendship Evangelism.' I am at this time promoting the proper handling of the message of salvation, which was never intended to be a bludgeon in the hand of the self-appointed.

To 'proclaim' the gospel (preach is an inaccurate rendering) is to both say and live the WHOLE gospel, not just the piece that you have and they don't.

 

[DivineNames]

The truth of the matter is that I am sick to the point of dry heaves with the self-appointed prophets and evangelists whose condescension alienates MILLIONS of people who are seeking God. When they encounter the so-called good news of their damnation, and the strident self-assurance of the hypocrites, they decide quickly that the God of such people must be either fiction or a whole like the arrogant mouthpieces that they encounter.

You might be onto something here... I myself think bibleberean does an excellent job of showing Christianity to be false.

:D

 

[DivineNames]

Hindu gods are devils...

1 Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

How many Hindu's did Paul know?

 

[bibleberean]

All people outside of Christ are lost and their gods false.
Hindus need to hear and believe the gospel.

An idolater and a lost soul has always been the same. Paul did not have to know a single Hindu.

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Jesus not Vishnu. Jesus not Kali.

I stand with Paul as He stood with Christ...

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[bibleberean]

We are called to preach the gospel to the lost. Hindus are lost and they need to hear the gospel.

Without believing the gospel of Christ there is no salvation.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

1 Corinthians 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Living a good life and being a good example will save no one if they don't hear the gospel.

The lost will not be in heaven... To be a Hindu is to be an idolater.

And their will be no idolators in heaven.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Feeding the poor and the sick is commendable and should be done but that alone will not save anyone.

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Which part of this post is false?

Was Paul lying when he wrote the following verse?

1 Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

I know many missionaries to India and I can tell you that their congregations are grateful for the gospel message and are happy that they have been turned from idols to serve the Living God. :D

Paul wrote these words to the Thessalonians:

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

 

[DivineNames]

bibleberean, I compare the kind of God that you believe in, with the kind of God that Hindu's believe in,

edited for violation of TOS:

Rule 2 - No Flaming:
You will not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. This will include misquoting another member out of context. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself.


Rule 6 - No Trolling:
You will not post anything that disrupts the peace and harmony of this forum. Don't make inflammatory remarks just to get a response. This will also include posts that put down Christianity in general or any posts considered as blasphemy by staff (this is a CHRISTIAN FORUMS site).
You won't be labeled as a troll if your post has substance.

edited by bibleberean

 

[jess321]

why can't we all just get along? :

 

[Blazin Bones]

To be a Hindu is to be devil worshiper....

Is a "Hindu" that loves Jesus and believes in His ministry a devil worshipper? :-?

You seem to believe you are an objectfyable dictionary Bibleberean...

I just get a little worried about all the "labeling" games.

Come on Soma, what does the Book of Matthew say about this? Matthew 6:24

 

[Blazin Bones]

why can't we all just get along? :

Because We Haven't Finished Proving Our Points! :wink: :-D

 

[jess321]

okay cool, just wondering!! :D :

 

[DivineNames]

bibleberean, I compare the kind of God that you believe in, with the kind of God that Hindu's believe in,

edited for violation of TOS:

Rule 2 - No Flaming:
You will not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. This will include misquoting another member out of context. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself.


Rule 6 - No Trolling:
You will not post anything that disrupts the peace and harmony of this forum. Don't make inflammatory remarks just to get a response. This will also include posts that put down Christianity in general or any posts considered as blasphemy by staff (this is a CHRISTIAN FORUMS site).
You won't be labeled as a troll if your post has substance.

edited by bibleberean

It wasn't a "flame". It wasn't an "inflammatory remark just to get a response".

Edited for violation of rule #5

Rule 5 - Respect Site authority:
The word of a moderator or administrator is final and private to the people involved. Do not challenge a moderator or administrator's authority or post publicly objecting to a moderator's act. If you feel that a moderator's actions are completely unacceptable, send the administrator a private message. Of course, the administrator's decision is final.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Come on Soma, what does the Book of Matthew say about this? Matthew 6:24

A True Christian follows the "Way" of Christ which is to recognize the "Light" inside your own heart that leads to the "Truth" of rejecting the world and taking up your own Cross!

Many Hindus do just that!

A True follower of Christ rejects exoteric meaningless customs and realizes the Divine Spark within and acts upon it in a selfless manner, non-respective of cultural condidtionings these rare souls act equally to all men and see all with an equal eye! Just as Jesus taught!

Many Moslems do just that

A devoted follower of Christ spends his/her time in quiet meditaion on his/her character and how to please the Divine Creator in an acceptable manner.

Many Buddhists do just that!

True disciples of Christ view there Master as the embodyment of Love, Hope, and Faith and act according to these principles!

Many pagans do just that!





[/b]