Would you be disapointed to find a Hindu in Heaven?

[bibleberean]

To those of you who do not want to "convert" anyone...

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

 

[Soma-Sight]

BB

"In order to justify their behavior, they turn their theories into dogmas, their bylaws into First Principles, their political bosses into Gods and all those who disagree with them into incarnate devils. This idolatrous transformation of the relative into the Absolute and the all too human into the Divine, makes it possible for them to indulge their ugliest passions with a clear conscience and in the certainty that they are working for the Highest Good. And when the current beliefs come, in their turn, to look silly, a new set will be invented, so that the immemorial madness may continue to wear its customary mask of legality, idealism, and true religion."
(Aldous Huxley, The Devils of Loudun, 1952, Harper and Brothers, NY, NY.)

 

[bibleberean]

BB

"In order to justify their behavior, they turn their theories into dogmas, their bylaws into First Principles, their political bosses into Gods and all those who disagree with them into incarnate devils. This idolatrous transformation of the relative into the Absolute and the all too human into the Divine, makes it possible for them to indulge their ugliest passions with a clear conscience and in the certainty that they are working for the Highest Good. And when the current beliefs come, in their turn, to look silly, a new set will be invented, so that the immemorial madness may continue to wear its customary mask of legality, idealism, and true religion."
(Aldous Huxley, The Devils of Loudun, 1952, Harper and Brothers, NY, NY.)

Are you trying to convert me to your way of thinking? :

Can you see how funny this is? :

You try to change peoples minds all the time.

The Sabbath etc.

No bible quotes? What is your point?

Do you believe Jesus is the way the truth and the life or not?

Do you believe the bible is God's word?

Do you even have a genuine point?

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Are you trying to convert me to your way of thinking?

Can you see how funny this is?

You try to change peoples minds all the time.

Perhaps you've not noted the subtle difference between influence and brow-beating? Between encouragement and extortion? Between leading and driving? Between witness of (Christ) and witness against? (the 'lost')

 

[bibleberean]

Are you trying to convert me to your way of thinking?

Can you see how funny this is?

You try to change peoples minds all the time.

Perhaps you've not noted the subtle difference between influence and brow-beating? Between encouragement and extortion? Between leading and driving? Between witness of (Christ) and witness against? (the 'lost')

Yes I have...

I am for saving the lost by preaching the gospel.

Always have been...

Robert :D

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[Vic C.]

Perhaps you've not noted the subtle difference between influence and brow-beating? Between encouragement and extortion? Between leading and driving? Between witness of (Christ) and witness against? (the 'lost')

I will leave subtle influences to the Adversary. Not that I'm condoning brow-bwating either. He (satan) likes tickling our ears with subtle tactics anyway.

2 Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2 Tim 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2 Tim 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Hey, there's that word rebuke.

and... Look Soma :-D "do the work of an evangelist," You seem to put them down a lot, but here we are, the Word telling us to be :o evangelists. :wink:

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Perhaps you've not noted the subtle difference between influence and brow-beating? Between encouragement and extortion? Between leading and driving? Between witness of (Christ) and witness against? (the 'lost')

I will leave subtle influences to the Adversary. Not that I'm condoning brow-bwating either. He (satan) likes tickling our ears with subtle tactics anyway.

2 Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2 Tim 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2 Tim 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Hey, there's that word rebuke.

and... Look Soma :-D "do the work of an evangelist," You seem to put them down a lot, but here we are, the Word telling us to be :o evangelists. :wink:

Perhaps a little context would be useful in rightly dividing the word of truth:
Who is the scripture from? Paul
Who is it written to? Timothy
Is the principle or command generalizable, or specific? Specific to Timothy, and by extension, those in leadership who are dealing with those who are disciples.
See Titus 1:13 and Titus 2:15 for comparison
Are there any cautions that might be attached to the command?
Indeed there are- in his prior letter, Paul warns Timothy not to rebuke an elder:

Never speak harshly to an older man, but appeal to him respectfully as though he were your own father.

Nowhere in any of this is there any implication that those who are not under the covenant and authority of the Church should be rebuked.

This is what happens when people are no longer moored to the scripture, but to their (evangelical fundamentalist) tradition. :wink:

BTW: I have asked before: how is telling people that they're Satan worshippers "evangelism?" I would have loved to see how Mars Hill would have went, should Paul have shared this Pharasaical predisposition.

 

[bibleberean]

1 Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

Didn't Paul say that? :D

Only Timothy can "preach the word" Only Timothy can use the scriptures for rebuke and exhortation?

1 Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

The truth is Hindus unless they are converted will not be in heaven.

That is the issue that a few people in this thread are trying to distract us from...

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The truth is Hindus need the gospel preached to them.

They need to be converted. Those who preach otherwise are going against the word of God and the commandments of Jesus Christ.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

1 Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

Didn't Paul say that? :D

Only Timothy can "preach the word" Only Timothy can use the scriptures for rebuke and exhortation?

1 Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

The truth is Hindus unless they are converted will not be in heaven.

That is the issue that a few people in this thread are trying to distract us from...

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The truth is Hindus need the gospel preached to them.

They need to be converted. Those who preach otherwise are going against the word of God and the commandments of Jesus Christ.

The truth of the matter is that Fundamentalists and Evangelicals aren't the only ones who wish to reach people for the Kingdom of God. (Evangelize).
It is asssumed that any objection to contemporary Evangelical methodology is synonymous with relativism- when in fact, the objections that I have raised are rooted in passionate concern for the lost and the alienated.

The truth of the matter is that I am sick to the point of dry heaves with the self-appointed prophets and evangelists whose condescension alienates MILLIONS of people who are seeking God. When they encounter the so-called good news of their damnation, and the strident self-assurance of the hypocrites, they decide quickly that the God of such people must be either fiction or a whole like the arrogant mouthpieces that they encounter.

Fundamentalist Christianity would shout to Zacheus that he is a sinner and condemned. Jesus Christ did and will sup with him. Note well that the ones who cried "sinner" in the NT were the Pharisees- and that jesus went in to these sinners, which then caused same to experience metaoinia- to re-think, to repent.

The truth is that strong meat is not for the unborn or babies, Robert. Such will choke on this same meat.


BTW:
The truth of the matter is that Evangelicals are NOT reaching people with their methodology- they are only achieving transfer growth. Perhaps it's time to revisit the Message and the Messenger.

 

[bibleberean]

The bottom line minus the distractions from the point of this is that Hindus need to be converted because unless they are "born again" they will not even see let alone enter the Kingdom of God.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Why would anyone take seriously someone who doesn't want to convert anyone?

Either we preach the gospel or we don't.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

The bottom line minus the distractions from the point of this is that Hindus need to be converted because unless they are "born again" they will not even see let alone enter the Kingdom of God.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Why would anyone take seriously someone who doesn't want to convert anyone?

Either we preach the gospel or we don't.

The bottom line, sans obfuscations, is that you preach Law and condemnation at the outsiders, and grace to yourselves. This is no gospel at all- not to mention Gospel.

Hindus need to see an example of love and truth, not rationalist American McChurchianity. Likewise the 'unsaved' of this nation, the doubters and even those who really are heretics, not just the ones you label "heretick." (As if you have the authority to do so.)

 

[bibleberean]

So, does anyone think unsaved Hindus will be in heaven? :D

 

[Orthodox Christian]

So, does anyone think unsaved Hindus will be in heaven? :D

I think you have loaded the question with the adjective "unsaved."
Perhaps you are aware of this?

As for who will be in heaven: Whomever God chooses to be there. irrespective of your or my opinion.

 

[bibleberean]

Hindus who have not believed the gospel of Jesus Christ will not be in heaven according to the bible which is God's word.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

The keeper of the prison was not saved until he believed.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Everyone is a child of wrath until they believe.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Paul is talking to believers who were dead...

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Non believers will not be in heaven.

A non believer is an idolater.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

There is no name given under heaven by which men can be saved but by Jesus Christ.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

This is not my opinion this is the word of God....

Mother Teresa is wrong.

Longtime friend and biographer Naveen Chawla said that he once asked her bluntly, "Do you convert?" She replied, "Of course I convert. I convert you to be a better Hindu or a better Muslim or a better Protestant. Once you’fe found God, it’s up to you to decide how to worship him" ("Mother Teresa Touched Other Faiths," Associated Press, Sept. 7, 1997).

That is a false hope and a false gospel.

Sister Ann a by product or Mother Teresa and a sister of charity said this... to David Cloud

"BRO. CLOUD: Do you believe if they [the Hindus at Pashupati] die believing in Shiva or in Ram [Hindu gods] they will go to heaven?

ANN: Yes, that is their faith. My own faith will lead me to my God, no? So if they have believed in their god very strongly, if they have faith, surely they will be saved.

Those who add to the gospel are not saved but under a curse.

This is not my opinion but the word of God...

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Galatians 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Mother Teresa and her deceived followers believe Jesus died for their sins and that he rose again from the dead but to that they have added that everyone has their own way to heaven...

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Paul wrote those words under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

I will ask the question again.

Does anyone think an unsaved Hindu will be in heaven?

If so why?

Jesus said,

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

A saved Hindu would be an ex Hindu...

Do those who worship false gods gain admittance to heaven?

Not according to my bible.

Those of you that believe the truth of the bible over the vain philosophy of men can take comfort in Pauls words.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

That ain't opinion! :D

 

[Soma-Sight]

This thread is dead just like so many others......

I think that being saved has nothing to do with BB's insistance on worshipping WORDS and more to do with worshipping with the HEART.

Maybe you might get that someday and maybe not.. I dont know and personally feel sorry for people that are that blind to what the Truth of Christ's life was all about.

Christ saves those that follow His example and do what He would do in the same situation. If you think Mother Terresa and Gandhi are going to hell than I really do think you need to open your eyes a bit more to see the WHOLE picture of what GRACE means.....

BB, your attitude is the reason so many people HATE the Church and the pious, legalistic know it all attitude that is expressed through Fundamentalism.

Under BB's erroneous Gospel interpretation a retarded kid that couldnt grasp the semantics of "doctrine" would burn like a log even though he couldnt help it.... What a sad way to view God and the power of Grace!

 

[bibleberean]

It isn't the thread that is dead...

The scriptures are alive and only the living can feed off them.

They may just be words to some...

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I make no apologies for my love of scripture and I make no apologies to hereticks...

 

[Orthodox Christian]

It isn't the thread that is dead...

The scriptures are alive and only the living can feed off them.

They may just be words to some...

Not a relevant commentary, in my case.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I make no apologies for my love of scripture and I make no apologies to hereticks...

Notice how the scripture "reveals the thoughts and intents of the heart? There certainly are those who are relativistic with the scriptures because they want their own sins baptized in acceptance. Therefore, they defend their own sins by means of allegorized or truncated scriptural reading. Then there are those whose desire to be right and correct sends them scrambling through the scriptures to find condemnation for verses by which to call down fire upon everyone who is not of their group.

Yes, the predisposition of man is revealed by holy scripture, and his latent, trenchant prejudices and neuroses.

There is no other Door to the Father except Christ. There is no salvation outside of the Body of Christ (Church). There is no other Onoma on heaven or earth by which a man may be saved.

But many who thought they were through the Door will be in the outer darkness, and many who think they're part of the Body just because they say so are in fact cast off as branches, and many are calling their understanding of scripture, rather than the person of Christ. This biblolatry is idolatry, and Fundamentalists will be judged by Moses accordingly.

The astute reader will see quite clearly that I have nowhere stated that the Hindu is saved, or will be saved. I have stated the simple truth that this is unknown.

I see clearly that we are to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength- and to love our neighbors as ourselves. I also love God's words, statutes, and commandments. In them I find a finger pointed directly at my heart and soul. Some find in them a finger to point at others. As it is written, they reveal the thoughts and intents of the heart.

A heretic is one who chooses, ie a factious person, one who has dissented from their Church. I think that covers ex-Catholics.

This word has also come to refer to persons who hold unorthodox opinions in any field. Everyone naturally believes that they are a part of the 'orthodoxy.'

 

[bibleberean]

I don't care about the philosophys of men.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

The bible clearly and in no uncertain terms declares the fate of the unsaved.

Hindus who worship false gods are not saved and will not be in heaven...

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

The scriptures are clear...

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

We need to believe... Hindus do not believe...

Cut, dry, plain and simple...

 

[YESHUA]

This thread is dead just like so many others......

I think that being saved has nothing to do with BB's insistance on worshipping WORDS and more to do with worshipping with the HEART.

Maybe you might get that someday and maybe not.. I dont know and personally feel sorry for people that are that blind to what the Truth of Christ's life was all about.

Christ saves those that follow His example and do what He would do in the same situation. If you think Mother Terresa and Gandhi are going to hell than I really do think you need to open your eyes a bit more to see the WHOLE picture of what GRACE means.....
What do you mean are going to hell are they still alive? Nobody can send anybody anywhere but GOD and since we have the Bible which is the word of the living GOD we should be able to discern where we would go if we do not believe in Christ people who have never heard of YESHUA can GOD condemn them no of course not but those who have heard will be judge by their own words which is a no to YESHUA simple enough for even soma and orthodox to understand and by way the Orthodox I didn't like your remakes about the USA siding with Israel and not with the Arab Christians do you know that most of the Arab Christians rather wished that Israel would disappeared over night and hate the Jews not very Christ like and I have been in Israel and what I have seen of the Orthodox Christians is not a Christianity I can recognize not very many acknowledge the right of the Jews to be in their ancient homeland given them by there GOD the HOLY ONE OF YISRAEL so in that respect I don't blame the Israeli gov't for not being so friendly towards the Orthodox Community don't forget that the community is very pro arab and very anti jewish
BB, your attitude is the reason so many people HATE the Church and the pious, legalistic know it all attitude that is expressed through Fundamentalism.

Under BB's erroneous Gospel interpretation a retarded kid that couldnt grasp the semantics of "doctrine" would burn like a log even though he couldnt help it.... What a sad way to view God and the power of Grace!

 

[DivineNames]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

A saved Hindu would be an ex Hindu...

This particular verse, doesn't look as if it has anything to do with people having to believe in Jesus to be saved.