Wresting or Reasoning Scripture

[Randy]

By desiring to do what our flesh desires to do.

This simple plain easy to understand principle is stated throughout the New Testament. One would have to willingly ignore it in order to miss it.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. Romans 6:19


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8


Here are the two clear choices each born again Christian must make.

1. he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
2. but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Sowing to the Spirit is the part where we yield to and cooperate with God who dwells in us, and motivates us unto godliness and righteousness, the things he works in us, according to His will.


JLB

I don't sow to the flesh.

 

[JLB]

I don't sow to the flesh.

Good.

 

[netchaplain]

By desiring to do what our flesh desires to do.

JLB

But the desire for the sin nature is annulled by His "work in you." Can never have both, as only one master can be served. The only possibility of serving God requires Him to cause (work) us to do so, because this power it's not within ourselves, requiring His Spirit, which is being "partakers" of the nature of Christ.

 

[Randy]

Good.

Yes, He that is in me is greater than the one in the world. I am not the one greater than the one in the world but the one in me is.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Again to those that have Gods inner witness??=> "willful unbelief"

That's what makes it willful.
They choose to not retain the truth in the face of the inner witness of the truth.
That's the sin of blasphemy that can not, and will not be overlooked or forgiven.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The simple understanding to me is that if "God is working in you to desire and do His good pleasure," how could one do otherwise?

They can do otherwise because believers have free will to do so as indicated here: "if we sin willfully" Hebrews 10:26.

 

[Randy]

That's what makes it willful.
They choose to not retain the truth in the face of the inner witness of the truth.
That's the sin of blasphemy that can not, and will not be overlooked or forgiven.

How are you coming to that conclusion? Jesus stated there would be those that called Him Lord that He never knew. By their fruit they are recognized.
We have a NT and a 2000 year old faith. The writers of the NT were introducing a new faith in a very pagan world. Many warnings and instruction was needed. The writer of Hebrews as in Hebrews 10 was writing to those that didn't shrink back. That they shouldn't throw away their confidence as it will be richly rewarded. Why didn't they shrink back? You think maybe Jesus had something to do with their remaining faithful to Him?

 

[netchaplain]

They can do otherwise because believers have free will to do so as indicated here: "if we sin willfully" Hebrews 10:26.

We are no longer our "own" (1Co 6:19) to desire after the sin nature, which is good and is the point, it requires God to keep us from it. If one falsely professes faith in God it will eventually show itself that He is not "working" in him; and He "works" in everyone reborn. If our will is not free to be after God, we are still our own (on our own).

 

[JLB]

Jesus stated there would be those that called Him Lord that He never knew.

Yes of course their are those who never knew Him. No doubt.

Thats not who we are talking about, neither is Hebrews.

Hebrews is talking about those who are indeed sanctified by faith in Christ.

Of course I think you know that by now, because of how many times this truth has been stated.


JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Concerning Hebrews 10:26, I believe many are misunderstanding the phrase "received the knowledge of the truth." I'm thinking many interpret this to mean "have believed the knowledge of the truth," which is not the intention. The misunderstanding might be due to thinking that just hearing or knowing what the the Gospel is saves you, which we know is not true, as belief in the Gospel for what it says is required and not just knowing. This is the primary doctrine of Gnosticism which taught just to know how to be saved saves you (not suspecting anyone of this).

Continuing in desire after the sin nature, i.e. sin willfully, identifies one who has not believed in the knowledge he has received (received not into the heart, but only into the head).

 

[Randy]

Yes of course their are those who never knew Him. No doubt.

Thats not who we are talking about, neither is Hebrews.

Hebrews is talking about those who are indeed sanctified by faith in Christ.

Of course I think you know that by now, because of how many times this truth has been stated.


JLB

It was indeed written to those who didn't shrink back as a warning not to.

He's writing to those who didn't fall away of the consequences of doing so. Just as revelation warns the saints not to take the mark of the beast. Such knowledge and instruction is part of Gods safety net. Our knowledge of Jesus. Just as we know God will not allow more to come on us then we can bare.

One who is born of God can NOT deny that inner testimony to themselves.

Therefore if one willfully chooses to sin at that point its with the full knowledge of the truth. I find such eternal suicide a highly unlikely scenario.

There were disciples of Jesus who left Him. It was noted Jesus had known those that believed in Him. There were others that Jesus noted He never knew.

There was only one true disciple that denied Him. Peter and that was out of fear not unbelief. As we know Jesus prayed that His faith might not fail. Jesus kept him safe.


No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

This isn't a criticism of anyone or their thoughts.
There's just seems to be a lot of talk on the forum about the "should s" and "should not's" of the Christian walk, but I still don't hear any conversation about everything being "Wrapped in LOVE".

Most conversations here sound too legalistic for me, and are "Bathed" in "rule keeping.

To me, no matter the conversation or topic, they should be CENTERED in LOVE, or WHAT'S THE POINT??

My name is OLIGOS

BTW-How do our conversations make us LOVE MORE, instead of having the constant bantering and "verse-bombing "about who's more right ??
I think most of us know what's right here, just too much time spent "splitting hairs" to no ones edification!!
Too much milk and no meat.

 

[JLB]

This isn't a criticism of anyone or their thoughts.
There's just seems to be a lot of talk on the forum about the "should s" and "should not's" of the Christian walk, but I still don't hear any conversation about everything being "Wrapped in LOVE".

Love by definition is obeying Him.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


What I am promoting is love. The biblical kind of Love that is accepted by God.


“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:16


If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. John 15:10

• There is no love apart from obedience.
• There is no salvation apart from obedience.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9



Who would want a wife that ran around committing adultery, and stealing and lying and murdering His children?



JLB

 

[JLB]

BTW-How do our conversations make us LOVE MORE, instead of having the constant bantering and "verse-bombing "about who's more right ??

There are some people who fight against the truth no matter how many times the plain words of scripture is shown.


Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? James 4:1

They are against it, because they have been taught that they can live anyway they desire, doing whatever they desire because all of their future sins have been forgiven.


Sin = Hate
Obedience = Love


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10

• Love does no harm to a neighbor;

JLB

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

JLB my wonderful brother in Christ.

The kind of love I talk about is not defind as something I have to do, or should do, for salvation.
My love for God and others is about what I can't help but do. My actions come from my heart,
and I do for my love of God.
I understand the verses you shared, but that's just the "Milk" of the word.
The meat starts after you've exhausted all your verses, because Christianity is so much more than "verses."

In marriage, some men do for their wives because she wants him too, or because he's been told he should when he was growing up, or maybe he gets something from his wife for being "A good boy."

Then there's the other guys who love their wives so much they would do anything for her and expect nothing back.
They just do whatever she needs, sometimes before she knows she needs it, because he just wants to make her happy with unselfish motives, and he knows her that well, and is so grateful for a life with her, that she would love him back.

The last one is a description of what GODLY LOVE can look like.
No list on the front door or on the refrigerator door to remind them.
Love reminds them of what they have the moment they wake up !!

God bless you all so much. I hope you see the difference.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[JLB]

The kind of love I talk about is not defind as something I have to do, or should do, for salvation.

I think you misunderstand what I’m saying.

Love is something saved people do.

Not something that is done to try and earn sslvation.


For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. Galatians 5:6

However it’s a choice.

If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. John 15:10



JLB

 

[JLB]

Then there's the other guys who love their wives so much they would do anything for her and expect nothing back.
They just do whatever she needs, sometimes before she knows she needs it, because he just wants to make her happy with unselfish motives, and he knows her that well, and is so grateful for a life with her, that she would love him back.

Of course. That’s the way I feel about it.


However the question remains....


Who would want a wife that ran around committing adultery, and stealing and lying and murdering His children?


Do you believe Jesus wants His bride acting like this?




JLB

 

[JLB]

But the desire for the sin nature is annulled by His "work in you." Can never have both, as only one master can be served. The only possibility of serving God requires Him to cause (work) us to do so, because this power it's not within ourselves, requiring His Spirit, which is being "partakers" of the nature of Christ.

The sinful deeds of the flesh is put to death (crucified) by the believer, working in harmony with and by the power of the Spirit enabling us to resist It’s tempting desires.


Its the choice of each of us must make each and everyday.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

If is the key. If means there is a condition.

1. For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
2. but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

JLB

 

[netchaplain]

For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

JLB

These two statements identifies what one is after. Remember, you cannot be after both, so the prior is descriptive of non-regeneracy, the latter, regeneracy. Notice the word "debtors" in v 12. This is the sense of yet being in "dominion" of the sin nature or "old man" (Ro 6:14), for the regenerate is no longer debtor to the flesh!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There's just seems to be a lot of talk on the forum about the "should s" and "should not's" of the Christian walk, but I still don't hear any conversation about everything being "Wrapped in LOVE".

Look at all these "shoulds" and "should nots" on both sides of the reference you made to everything being "Wrapped in LOVE" (vs.14 emboldened below):

5Put to death, therefore, the components of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience.b 7When you lived among them, you also used to walk in these ways. 8But now you must put aside all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

9Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices, 10and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, or free, but Christ is all and is in all.

12Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with hearts of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. 13Bear with one another and forgive any complaint you may have against someone else. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14And over all these virtues put on love, which is the bond of perfect unity. 15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, for to this you were called as members of one body. And be thankful.

16Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17And whatever you do, in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

18Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

19Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

20Children, obey your parents in everything, for this is pleasing to the Lord.

21Fathers, do not provoke your children, so they will not become discouraged.

22Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only to please them while they are watching, but with sincerity of heart and fear of the Lord.

23Whatever you do, work at it with your whole being, for the Lord and not for men, 24because you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as your reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25Whoever does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism.


Love does not replace the rules.
It's the way you keep the rules.

"...we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code (mere written words)." - Romans 7:6