Wresting or Reasoning Scripture

[Jethro Bodine]

I understand the verses you shared, but that's just the "Milk" of the word.
The meat starts after you've exhausted all your verses, because Christianity is so much more than "verses."

The milk of the word is all the facts of the gospel.
The meat of the word is all the instruction on how to love others.
And those instructions are found in many lengthy passages of scripture (as I've shown in the previous post).

Milk knowledge is important when it directly affects your obedience to 'love your neighbor as yourself'.
A lot of Christians--Freegrace OSAS Christians in particular--need to go back and learn the milk knowledge of the gospel because what they have been drinking has led them away from obedience to God and the command to 'love your neighbor as yourself' and they aren't growing up into Christ.

"...you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness." - Hebrews 5:12-13

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Love does not replace the rules.
It's the way you keep the rules.

Keep in mind that the rules is where we all begin, me too, but we're supposed to grow in our faith and want the Godly character traits we can't cause to happen on our own, because we are "natural", of the flesh, not "Super-natural," like God.
After a while, as you grow the rules seem to disappear as a rule and they become a living daily part of our lives, as God through our prayers, makes these go beyond rules, and causes miracles to happen in our lives that advances us to be like Him by His choice, not ours. we just have the desire!!!
It's so amazing when this begins to happen, and you experience God changing your heart, not you changing it, and His reality becomes stronger and stronger in your awareness of Him, as you can feel Him working in you, doing things your aware of, and are aware it's totally beyond you.

Being "super-natural" in His character traits is a gift from God, not just as a result of becoming a Christian, but it's part of the process of our growth of salvation, and recognizing Godly character traits that are impossible to achieve on our own, so we admit to God in prayers, as i did, that we can do nothing on our own, so when we pray, we ask for whatever we see we need, that's like God.

When I read 1st Cor. 13, the love chapter, I knew it would be impossible for me to ever achieve those Godly qualities in my life without the Holy Spirits help.
So I prayed with tears running down my face, because I didn't want anything standing between God and I, and with the Holy Spirits help, I came to the conclusion that nothing God wanted from me was possible on my own.
Just like Jesus said, " I can do nothing without the Father."

God, by His grace, so far, has achieved all that He wanted to in my life, that would have always been impossible for me without praying and asking Him to bless me with all His traits, centered in His GODLY SUPER-NATURAL LOVE.

God's love is not 'Spiritual", as anyone can be spiritual, even non-Christians.
Spiritual encompasses all kinds of religious and non-religious idea's and doctrines, not necessarily Godly.

\What I'm saying here, is sometimes hard for people to comprehend.
It took over 35 years, of my 77 years, and 42 years of walking with the Lord, for God to reveal all this to me. IT'S DEEP.

God bless us all as we search His words of truth together in LOVE for one another.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[JLB]

These two statements identifies what one is after. Remember, you cannot be after both, so the prior is descriptive of non-regeneracy, the latter, regeneracy. Notice the word "debtors" in v 12. This is the sense of yet being in "dominion" of the sin nature or "old man" (Ro 6:14), for the regenerate is no longer debtor to the flesh!

Everyone can see that Paul is addressing born again Christians,



Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


The same “you” that has the potential to, by the Spirit put to death the deeds of the flesh, is the same “you” that has the potential to live according to the flesh.

”If” plainly shows us the condition and subsequent outcome of each choice the born again believer must make.


There is nothing “automatic“ about these two very real choices that we as Christians must make each day.


If the Christian will read the scriptures and meditate on the scriptures and worship God, and walk with God in the light, then that person will equip himself to be strengthened to overcome the sinful desires of the flesh.


If the Christian associates with the ungodly, and watches porn, and goes to bars, then the Christian becomes weak and easily subdued to gratify the lustful cravings of the flesh.


One is sowing to the Spirit, the other is sowing to the flesh.



Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

• For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
• but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Keep in mind that the rules is where we all begin, me too, but we're supposed to grow in our faith and want the Godly character traits we can't cause to happen on our own, because we are "natural", of the flesh, not "Super-natural," like God.
After a while, as you grow the rules seem to disappear as a rule and they become a living daily part of our lives, as God through our prayers, makes these go beyond rules, and causes miracles to happen in our lives that advances us to be like Him by His choice, not ours. we just have the desire!!!
It's so amazing when this begins to happen, and you experience God changing your heart, not you changing it, and His reality becomes stronger and stronger in your awareness of Him, as you can feel Him working in you, doing things your aware of, and are aware it's totally beyond you.

Being "super-natural" in His character traits is a gift from God, not just as a result of becoming a Christian, but it's part of the process of our growth of salvation, and recognizing Godly character traits that are impossible to achieve on our own, so we admit to God in prayers, as i did, that we can do nothing on our own, when we pray, so we ask for whatever we see we need, that's like God.

When I read 1st Cor. 13, the love chapter, I knew it would be impossible for me to ever achieve those Godly qualities in my life without the Holy Spirits help.
So I prayed with tears running down my face, because I didn't want anything standing between God and I, and with the Holy Spirits help, I came to the conclusion that nothing God wanted from me was possible on my own.
Just like Jesus said, " I can do nothing without the Father."

God, by His grace, so far, has achieved all that He wanted to in my life, that would have always been impossible for me without praying and asking Him to bless me with all His traits, centered in His GODLY SUPER-NATURAL LOVE.

God's love is not 'Spiritual", as anyone can be spiritual, even non-Christians.
Spiritual encompasses all kinds of religious and non-religious idea's and doctrines, not necessarily Godly.

\What I'm saying here, is sometimes hard for people to comprehend.
It took over 35 years, of my 77 years, and 42 years of walking with the Lord, for God to reveal all this to me. IT'S DEEP.

God bless us all as we search His words of truth together in LOVE for one another.
My name is OLIGOS

In the midst of this godly love inside of us, God will bring verses of scripture to memory to guide our responses to various situations in life. Love is the motivator, the 'rules' are the path.

"And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws." - Ezekiel 36:27

"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts." - Jeremiah 31:33

"...written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts." - 2 Corinthians 3:3

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There were disciples of Jesus who left Him. It was noted Jesus had known those that believed in Him. There were others that Jesus noted He never knew.

True enough.
But that hardly negates the fact that there are also those who believe in him and then fall away into unbelief.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Love is the motivator, the 'rules' are the path.

As long as we really see that, and always keep it in mind.
There are "WAY TO MANY" legalists and rule keepers in the church, and on forums who enjoy beating people over the head with bible verses, all about works and rules, and no love, and have no clue how to apply all they know in a tender sauve of love, instead of using a "club", to beat the word into people, and by doing that, set a poor example for those who follow. Seen it WAY too many times.
Also,young people have no respect for the elderly in Christ who try to share a wisdom the younger believers haven't a clue about, and will take decades to find if they do at all. Too arrogant and egotistical.
WAAAAAY too many on forums who think they know everything, and try to put us old guys in our place, because they have ALL the truth in their young years, and have no idea how "shallow" their faith really is, and will make sure they always have the upper-hand in knowledge and understanding, even though their wisdom has no depth.
Seen it on every forum and in every church of my 42 year walk with Christ. Hideous thing to see and hear !!!

God bless us DEAR LORD as we move to maturity and wisdom, and grow in Your super-natural LOVE.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

So then why do true believers get tempted beyond what they can bear?
Was Paul wrong here?
No, of course not.
Obviously, the true believer who falls into temptation did so of his own accord, not because God was not faithful to keep you from situations that tempt you beyond what you can bear.

Now, with that being true--that the passage does not mean you will never fail under the weight of temptation--how can you say it means that believers will always keep believing?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There are "WAY TO MANY" legalists and rule keepers in the church, and on forums who enjoy beating people over the head with bible verses, all about works and rules, and no love, and have no clue how to apply all they know in a tender sauve of love, instead of using a "club", to beat the word into people, and by doing that, set a poor example for those who follow. Seen it WAY too many times.

I can honestly say I don't see this except in what I call the 'church of the world'. You know, your Presbyterian or Methodist church down the street where the world goes to church.

I don't see legalism being a problem among genuinely born again people. And frankly, I have no desire to correct the church of the world. I only care about and focus on the true church of God's people. And from what I see legalistically trying to earn salvation through carrying a burden of Spirit-less works simply is not what ails the born again church at this time. In the church of the world, yes! But like I say, I don't care about them as a whole. They will continue to exist in their lost-ness until the end of the age.

What I do see as the problem among genuinely born again people is a serious lack of works. A lack of works caused by a lack of knowledge about the Spirit and the true meaning of what it means to be a disciple of Christ:

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." - Galatians 5:6

Being a Christian is ALL about godly love. I say 'godly' love because we are by nature quite well acquainted with our natural 'worldly' love. And Christ's love is hardly that. Gods' love is a completely different paradigm where your desire--your love--is for the welfare and benefit of those around you, not for yourself. This is what the real church of God is ignorant of at this time in church history. And I blame OSAS and it's various offshoots for bringing us to this place where we are at.

 

[netchaplain]

Everyone can see that Paul is addressing born again Christians,

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

"Brethren" here, as you've indicated is directed only to believers. Though some think brethren could also be reference to all the Jews he was speaking to in Rome at that time, the phrase "we are debtors not to the flesh" confirms reference only believers.

So to me, Paul is speaking to believers about unbelievers, e.g. "if you live after the sin nature" is in contrast to those living after the Spirit. The same means of identification is exemplified through verses 1-13, as nearly every verse presents an identifiable contrast between believers and unbelievers. The rest of the Chapter is descriptive only of believers.

I think it helps in knowing that until Paul's ministry, we know that the knowledge of all of God's provisions (how to be saved was all they knew) being in Christ was yet to be revealed (not just symbolized in types and figures). All were limited in identifying Christians (which was an ongoing need, being always under persecution, even when Paul was Saul) until Paul was shown and revealed the remnant of God's Word, which made it impossible for a hypocrite to remain in the company of true believers (same for today).

This is why I see warnings and admonishments to the early believers as means of identification, because they were young in the Lord until Paul's ministry. Maturity in the Christian walk is proportionate to our knowledge and understanding of all of God's mind, of which Paul's ministry had yet to reveal.

This may be a bit lengthy but I feel something that Jesus declared should be noted here. "Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit" (Mat 12:33). To me "the tree is known by his fruit" designs the intention concerning a permanent state or condition, i.e. every person will manifest what they truly are, saved or unsaved. Similar to the assumption that "he that believes not is condemned already" (Jhn 3:18). This passage is one that clearly demonstrates God knows all who will never choose to believe.

Thus the phrase "Either make the tree good . . . or else make the tree corrupt" clearly means one cannot go back and forth in redemption. It's always one way from the staring point, e.g. you can go from corrupt to good but never from good to corrupt. You can only be lost once and saved once, so there's only two positions that can be encountered, unsaved and saved.

If one is professing Christianity and manifests a life after the sin nature, he will eventually desire to cease (depart, fall away, etc.) from his false profession. Only a genuine profession of faith will prove out by not ceasing from professing Christianity (of course a true profession will include desire to continue in obedience in order to assume genuineness, for the sake of self and others to know).

Verse 13
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die”
Such persons are dead, whilst they live, and shall die a second or an eternal death, if grace prevent not. It may be asked, whether one that has received the grace of God in truth, can live after the flesh; flesh, or corrupt nature, though still in such a person, has not the dominion over him: to live in sin, or in a continued course of sinning, is contrary to the grace of God; but flesh may prevail and greatly influence the life and conversation, for a while; how long this may be the case of a true believer, under backslidings, through the power of corruptions and temptations, cannot be known; but certain it is, that it shall not be always thus with him. It may be further inquired, whether such an one may be so left to live after the flesh, as to die and perish eternally; Christ expressly says, such shall not die that live and believe in him; grace, which is implanted in their souls, is an incorruptible and never dying seed; grace and glory are inseparably connected together; but then such persons may die with respect to their frames.” - John Gill

 

[JLB]

This may be a bit lengthy but I feel something that Jesus declared should be noted here. "Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit" (Mat 12:33). To me "the tree is known by his fruit" designs the intention concerning a permanent state or condition, i.e. every person will manifest what they truly are, saved or unsaved. Similar to the assumption that "he that believes not is condemned already" (Jhn 3:18). This passage is one that clearly demonstrates God knows all who will never choose to believe.

Of course God knows who will never choose to believe.

No one is questioning that.

Jesus speaking to the Pharisees said a tree s know by its fruit.

No one is questioning that.


What Paul is saying clearly to believers, to born again Christians, who have the ability to “put to death the deeds of the flesh by the the Spirit”, that if they live according to the flesh they will die; ie perish be condemned, eternally damned.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


There is just no way to explain your way around what Paul is saying here and that he says in all his letters.


Here is how Romans 8 begins.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


Plainly the “no condemnation” promise is to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh.


Plainly those who are in Christ that walk according to the flesh are in fact under condemnation, and must be told the consequences of their lifestyle so they will repent and live their life in victory, by the power of the Spirit, by living according to the leading of the Spirit.


This is what Paul admonished believers again and again, in his letters.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-22

• of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul warned them in the past, just as he is warning them again, Christians who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Why would Paul warn them of this?


Because he is a legalistic?
Because he is prejudice against Gentiles?
Because he is trying to extort money from them?


Paul is warning these Christians that if they continue in the practice of the works of the flesh they will be lost to the everlasting fires of hell; eternal damnation.


Because he has the love of Jesus Christ in his heart and doesn’t want these precious Christians to be lost.


Do you understand what will not inherit the kingdom of God means?


It means the same thing as die, perish, condemnation, damnation, eternal death, the second death, burn in hell...


What possible good does it do to get someone born again, and they come into a Church that won’t teach the truth to its people?


“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. Matthew 5:13


Salt preserves from corruption.




JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Concerning Hebrews 10:26, I believe many are misunderstanding the phrase "received the knowledge of the truth." I'm thinking many interpret this to mean "have believed the knowledge of the truth," which is not the intention.

It is exactly the intention. The passage itself says so.
The 'sanctified' person in the passage is defined as a saved person:

"10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." - Hebrews 10:10

"14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." - Hebrews 10:14

"29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?" - Hebrews 10:29

It's hard to believe we let so-called scholars make it so we can't see, let alone believe these plain words and instead defer to their teaching that says Hebrews 10 is not about saved people. How can an honest person do that?????
There is no other passage of scripture that can somehow make it so Hebrews 10 does not mean what the passage itself says it means.

Continuing in desire after the sin nature, i.e. sin willfully, identifies one who has not believed in the knowledge he has received (received not into the heart, but only into the head).

Not according to the passage.
It plainly says what will happen to the person who has been sanctified by the blood of Christ, forever made perfect not needing another sacrifice to be made on his behalf, who tramples on the Son and insults the Spirit of grace in a willful sinning. How can you honestly close your eyes to these plain words of scripture? Is it because you think that if this is true it makes the other passages you use to defend OSAS not true? I assure you, it does not.

 

[JLB]

Verse 13
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die”
Such persons are dead, whilst they live, and shall die a second or an eternal death, if grace prevent not. It may be asked, whether one that has received the grace of God in truth, can live after the flesh; flesh, or corrupt nature, though still in such a person, has not the dominion over him: to live in sin, or in a continued course of sinning, is contrary to the grace of God; but flesh may prevail and greatly influence the life and conversation, for a while; how long this may be the case of a true believer, under backslidings, through the power of corruptions and temptations, cannot be known; but certain it is, that it shall not be always thus with him. It may be further inquired, whether such an one may be so left to live after the flesh, as to die and perish eternally; Christ expressly says, such shall not die that live and believe in him; grace, which is implanted in their souls, is an incorruptible and never dying seed; grace and glory are inseparably connected together; but then such persons may die with respect to their frames.” - John Gill

No need to quote commentaries of fellow Calvinists.

The scripture is clear, no amount of stretching the scriptures one way or another will change what the Holy Spirit through Paul is saying to believers.


When you quote commentaries of fellow Calvinis’s you only betray yourself brother, that you really don’t understand what is being said, so how can you think you will convince us you know what your talking about.


Let’s all just read the plain words of scripture and encourage each other to do what they so plainly instruct us to do.

Please.

This is all part of believing Jesus. If we say we believe him when He tells us not to sin or to forgive one another, or to love by sharing our things with our brother, but we refuse to do what He says, then we don't really believe Him, because we don’t obey Him.

We really believe Satan, who says “you will not surely die“.


Thats what the Freegrace, Hyper grace, OSAS, doctrine teaches, you can live in disobedience to God, ignoring what He says and you will not surely die, but have eternal life.


This is what Eve believed in the garden, therefore she obeyed Satan rather than the Lord.





JLB

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

The milk of the word is all the facts of the gospel.
The meat of the word is all the instruction on how to love others.

True, from more of a very child like perspective new to the faith, but to those of us who are much older in the LORD, we see the meat as the NEW depths of understanding of scripture God brings to us, as NEW understanding that continues to deepen our faith, and cause us to understand Gods word in deeper new, and more clear meanings, that help change our faith and mature us to a new more mature level, moving from faith to faith 1st Cor 3:18, where things come to light in Gods word that were always before us, but we weren't ready to receive them from the Holy Spirit.

God, in 2nd Corinthians 3:18 says, "But we all,.....are being transformed into the same image of God, from Glory to glory."
(Growth to growth, understanding to understanding.)

My friend Jethro Bodine, your understanding and translations of meaning of scripture seems too shallow and immature to be taking the place of a teacher here, and I believe you should take more of the place here as a student.

JLB is a good example of a good teacher, with a kind and patient heart,, and you should follow him and learn from him.

God bless you my brother as you seek the truth and wisdom of Gods word. It's a beautiful process you should be excited about and look forward to for your many years of true learning to come

My name is OLIGOS

 

[Hopeful]

So then why do true believers get tempted beyond what they can bear?
Was Paul wrong here?
No, of course not.
Obviously, the true believer who falls into temptation did so of his own accord, not because God was not faithful to keep you from situations that tempt you beyond what you can bear.

Now, with that being true--that the passage does not mean you will never fail under the weight of temptation--how can you say it means that believers will always keep believing?

That "fall" showed him as an unbeliever.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

All Christians fail at times.
What is so beautiful is that it's not a condemnation against our faith, it's reminder to us that there is no perfection in us, and no matter how hard we try not to sin, there will be times we are humbled by our "human fraililties", and must Go to God and "HUMBLE ourselves at His feet.

Thank you God for your GRACE and MERCY.
And thank you that you know my heart, like you did King David, a man after your own heart.

My name is OLIGOS

 

[Hopeful]

All Christians fail at times.
What is so beautiful is that it's not a condemnation against our faith, it's reminder to us that there is no perfection in us, and no matter how hard we try not to sin, there will be times we are humbled by our "human fraililties", and must Go to God and "HUMBLE ourselves at His feet.

Thank you God for your GRACE and MERCY.
And thank you that you know my heart, like you did King David, a man after your own heart.

My name is OLIGOS

We disagree on that first point.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

We disagree on that first point.

Are you speaking for yourself or God??

Romans 7:14-25, PAUL says, "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am of flesh, sold into bondage of sin.
For that which I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing that I hate.
But I do the very thing I do not wish to do, I agree with the law,confessing it is good.
So now. no longer am I the one doing it, but sin that dwells within me.
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the wishing is present within me, but the doing of good is not.
For the good that I wish, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not wish.
I find then the principle that evil is present within me, for I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
WRETCHED MAN TAT I AM !! Who will set me free from the body of this death (Sin)??
Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord ! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh, the law of sin."

If God speaks so much about forgiveness, and He does, Matth. 7-14, forgiving others as God forgives you, Matth. 6:14-15, 1st John 1:9,
so then, why does God need to speak so much about forgiveness if believers never sin?
Non-believers can't be forgiven, so I guess that leaves WHO...?

God doesn't just judge the act of sin, but he judges the intent and the heart of the Christian who sins.
Non-believers have no access to forgiveness from God, that's what makes believers and non-believers so different - PRAISE GOD!!

My name is OLIGOS

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That "fall" showed him as an unbeliever.

The fall into unbelief is indeed that of an unbeliever. The question is whether or not a real believer can stop believing and become an unbeliever.

Calvinist OSAS says the person who falls away into unbelief was never a real believer to begin with.
Freegrace OSAS doctrine says real believers can fall into unbelief but they remain saved.

I go with what the Bible says.
If a person sanctified and made perfect by the blood of Christ willingly sins in defiant unbelief (and refuses to come back) they lose the protection from Judgement that they had in the sacrifice of Jesus and have nothing left to look forward to except to be destroyed with the enemies of God.

"26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” d and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” e 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." - Hebrews 10:26-31

I put Freegrace OSAS doctrine in the category of the stumbling blocks we are talking about in another thread.
I give Calvinist OSAS credit for at least defending the necessity to keep believing and living a holy life in order to be saved when Jesus returns. Freegrace doctrine disposes of both of those things from their OSAS beliefs.

 

[Randy]

The fall into unbelief is indeed that of an unbeliever. The question is whether or not a real believer can stop believing and become an unbeliever.

Calvinist OSAS says the person who falls away into unbelief was never a real believer to begin with.
Freegrace OSAS doctrine says real believers can fall into unbelief but they remain saved.

I go with what the Bible says.
If a person sanctified and made perfect by the blood of Christ willingly sins in defiant unbelief (and refuses to come back) they lose the protection from Judgement that they had in the sacrifice of Jesus and have nothing left to look forward to except to be destroyed with the enemies of God.

"26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” d and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” e 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." - Hebrews 10:26-31

I put Freegrace OSAS doctrine in the category of the stumbling blocks we are talking about in another thread.
I give Calvinist OSAS credit for at least defending the necessity to keep believing and living a holy life in order to be saved when Jesus returns. Freegrace doctrine disposes of both of those things from their OSAS beliefs.

I assume you have the Spirit of Christ in you and have had that witness. I assume you have received answers from Him in regard to prayer via the Spirit.

If so ,despite what you state you can not NOT know that reality that Jesus lives.

The only possibility from willful sin at that point is that sin is with the full knowledge of the truth. In essence eternal suicide.

Is it your position that at this stage in your relationship with Christ you can no longer believe He is the Christ the Son of God and walk away from the faith as a unbeliever? That question is to yourself. Examine all you know and the witness you have had from the Spirit and give your answer.

As for myself the answer is no. I know I can't be alone in this. I know my Lord and He knows me. Its a relationship forever.
As I stated I share Jude's confidence which is by faith.

To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

Your theology would also have to apply to the Apostles themselves who were eye witnesses of the Lord.

We declare to you what was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 this life was revealed, and we have seen it and testify to it, and declare to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us— 3 we declare to you what we have seen and heard so that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 We are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.

God Is Light

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is it your position that at this stage in your relationship with Christ you can no longer believe He is the Christ the Son of God and walk away from the faith as a unbeliever?

Going back to unbelief is not amnesia as if you never heard the gospel before.
For the enlightened one, unbelief is a choice.
A choice to not care about the love of God in the forgiveness of sin anymore and to go back to your old life.
The believer who does that will go to hell when Jesus returns, not into the kingdom.
That's what the Bible says.