Ya know, we just can't seem to agree on the timing of the rapture.

[tessiewebb]

Actually, I don't see anything in that passage about Christ being on earth, either. How do you reconcile the text of Revelation 15:4 with your first quote?

Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

 

[tessiewebb]

15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague. 16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
.

That is OT, not NT and was at the time when the earthly Jerusalem was the center of the worship. Seriously, Hitch, read your Bible prayerfully. I'm concerned for you that you seem to take it so lightly. As a message from the Most High, I think you are endangering yourself in taking it as a joke.

 

[Hitch]

That is OT, not NT and was at the time when the earthly Jerusalem was the center of the worship.

Are you willing to say directly that the Millennial Kingdom appears nowhere in the Prophets?

Seriously, Hitch, read your Bible prayerfully. I'm concerned for you that you seem to take it so lightly. As a message from the Most High, I think you are endangering yourself in taking it as a joke.

Dont you know that you can hardly quote a word of the Apocalypse that is not taken from the Prophets?

 

[Hitch]

Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Is that this city:

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

 

[tessiewebb]

Is that this city:

Yes, it is the same. Jerusalem in the natural is also situated on Mt Zion or near it now that the city has expanded so much since the time the NT was written. Note the Hebrews reference indicates the "coming" is defined as:
1) to come to, approach
2) draw near to
3) to assent to

Those who are in the Body of Christ have drawn near to the city of God which in the natural is Jerusalem as we know it and spiritually the New Jerusalem yet to come. Here and now we love the city because it is the city of our God. We may not yet be citizens of the New Jerusalem but we and the Jewish believers in Christ have become citizens of the Kingdom of God's dear Son which in the future will include the new Heavens, the new Earth and the new Jerusalem

 

[jasoncran]

Yes, it is the same. Jerusalem in the natural is also situated on Mt Zion or near it now that the city has expanded so much since the time the NT was written. Note the Hebrews reference indicates the "coming" is defined as:
1) to come to, approach
2) draw near to
3) to assent to

Those who are in the Body of Christ have drawn near to the city of God which in the natural is Jerusalem as we know it and spiritually the New Jerusalem yet to come. Here and now we love the city because it is the city of our God. We may not yet be citizens of the New Jerusalem but we and the Jewish believers in Christ have become citizens of the Kingdom of God's dear Son which in the future will include the new Heavens, the new Earth and the new Jerusalem

lets see.

Revelation 21


1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's

note the moon and sun and earth and the word like a jasper.

and in isiah 60

Isaiah 60


1Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
2For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
3And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
4Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.
5Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
6The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD.
7All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.
8Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?
9Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.
10And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.
11Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.
12For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.
13The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.
14The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee; The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
15Whereas thou has been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations.
16Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
17For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.
18Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.
19The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. 22A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time

now then like you i am premillenial. i dont take this verse that literal. do you really think we will go back to horses when it comes to the trib?

 

[Hitch]

Yes, it is the same. Jerusalem in the natural is also situated on Mt Zion or near it now that the city has expanded so much since the time the NT was written. Note the Hebrews reference indicates the "coming" is defined as:
1) to come to, approach
2) draw near to
3) to assent to

Those who are in the Body of Christ have drawn near to the city of God which in the natural is Jerusalem as we know it and spiritually the New Jerusalem yet to come. Here and now we love the city because it is the city of our God. We may not yet be citizens of the New Jerusalem but we and the Jewish believers in Christ have become citizens of the Kingdom of God's dear Son which in the future will include the new Heavens, the new Earth and the new Jerusalem

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,


The writer of Hebrews is inspired by the Holy Spirit and is correct, on every count. You are laughable.

 

[tessiewebb]

lets see.



note the moon and sun and earth and the word like a jasper.

and in isiah 60


now then like you i am premillenial. i dont take this verse that literal. do you really think we will go back to horses when it comes to the trib?

First, I am 'arapture' as preached and described in "Left Behind"....2ndly, I don't know which verses to take literally in Rev and since most of it depicts future events, I guess we'll have to see what is and is not literal. As for the rest of your post, I'm not sure at all what your point was intended to be. The Jerusalem we can see now will be made new, like the Earth and the Heavens. That much is made as clear as, well, the sea of crystal :yes

 

[tessiewebb]

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,


The writer of Hebrews is inspired by the Holy Spirit and is correct, on every count. You are laughable.

And your point was??

 

[jasoncran]

First, I am 'arapture' as preached and described in "Left Behind"....2ndly, I don't know which verses to take literally in Rev and since most of it depicts future events, I guess we'll have to see what is and is not literal. As for the rest of your post, I'm not sure at all what your point was intended to be. The Jerusalem we can see now will be made new, like the Earth and the Heavens. That much is made as clear as, well, the sea of crystal :yes

sigh symbols, most revalation is jewish symbology that means something to be taken literally.

ie the woman with the sun and moon and the stars is isreal and the man child who was to rule the nations with the rod of iron is the Lord when he was on the earth.

 

[Hitch]

And your point was??

Yes, it is the same. Jerusalem in the natural is also situated on Mt Zion or near it now that the city has expanded so much since the time the NT was written. Note the Hebrews reference indicates the "coming" is defined as:
1) to come to, approach
2) draw near to
3) to assent to

Those who are in the Body of Christ have drawn near to the city of God which in the natural is Jerusalem as we know it and spiritually the New Jerusalem yet to come. Here and now we love the city because it is the city of our God. We may not yet be citizens of the New Jerusalem but we and the Jewish believers in Christ have become citizens of the Kingdom of God's dear Son which in the future will include the new Heavens, the new Earth and the new Jerusalem

It doest take much to see that you and the writer of Hebrews are in conflict. He declares we have come to Mt Sion , the heavenly Jerusalem and you say we have not.
Odd you take it so lightly. LOL

 

[tessiewebb]

sigh symbols, most revalation is jewish symbology that means something to be taken literally.

ie the woman with the sun and moon and the stars is isreal and the man child who was to rule the nations with the rod of iron is the Lord when he was on the earth.

So the woman in the sky standing on the moon, crowned with stars is a real woman? Obviously the man child is birthed by a woman but not by a woman in the sky, it is said. I think more of Rev's verses can be taken literally than many do, but still it seems we have to ferret out the symbology of it all. The woman in the sky is not Mary, who actually gave birth to Jesus, can we agree on that?

 

[tessiewebb]

It doest take much to see that you and the writer of Hebrews are in conflict. He declares we have come to Mt Sion , the heavenly Jerusalem and you say we have not.
Odd you take it so lightly. LOL

LOL I say he says drawn near. If you have angels around you, take pics, ok? I'd love to see them. Scripture also says we are seated in the "heavenlies" with Christ. Don't know about you but physically I am seated at my computer in KY, USA. Get it?

 

[reba]

PLAY NICE
​

 

[Sinthesis]

So the woman in the sky standing on the moon, crowned with stars is a real woman? Obviously the man child is birthed by a woman but not by a woman in the sky, it is said. I think more of Rev's verses can be taken literally than many do, but still it seems we have to ferret out the symbology of it all. The woman in the sky is not Mary, who actually gave birth to Jesus, can we agree on that?

If you knew the symbology you would shake your head and try not to snicker at forced literal meanings.:snicker

The woman in the sky is Judaism at the time of Jesus' birth.

 

[Hitch]

LOL I say he says drawn near. If you have angels around you, take pics, ok? I'd love to see them. Scripture also says we are seated in the "heavenlies" with Christ. Don't know about you but physically I am seated at my computer in KY, USA. Get it?

Which do you think is more real, the 'heavenlies' or the physical?

Perhaps I should ask which ,to you , has greater import?

 

[Hitch]

So the woman in the sky standing on the moon, crowned with stars is a real woman? Obviously the man child is birthed by a woman but not by a woman in the sky, it is said. I think more of Rev's verses can be taken literally than many do, but still it seems we have to ferret out the symbology of it all. The woman in the sky is not Mary, who actually gave birth to Jesus, can we agree on that?

How about verse one?

 

[jasoncran]

So the woman in the sky standing on the moon, crowned with stars is a real woman? Obviously the man child is birthed by a woman but not by a woman in the sky, it is said. I think more of Rev's verses can be taken literally than many do, but still it seems we have to ferret out the symbology of it all. The woman in the sky is not Mary, who actually gave birth to Jesus, can we agree on that?

sigh the the bible is chuck full of symbology that god gave the jews first.

and we wonder why they often laugh at us when talk to them from the ot. i have had that happen to me. imagine that but oh yes.

and syntheis is right the woman in the vision is judiasm at the time of the birth. for what did satan do? try to kill the man child and where was the wilderness that is something i have to read up on.

so the symbols describe in brief the birth of christ. and what satan tried to do with the jews but take note. he cant get them as the earth stops them and then goes to attack the faithful gentiles. interesting.

and if you notice he is always attacking the jews today and did then. he knows something.

 

[Chan]

It'll happen when it happens. Be ready!