Ye must be born again !

[francisdesales]

A second communication of Life !

Jn 3:7

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Marvel Not ! The word marvel is a word that denotes astonishment, wonderment. Its the word used in Lk 8:25

25And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this! for he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him.

Its the word admired as in 2 Thess 1:10

10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

What Jesus was saying to Nicodemus is that a man must receive a second life, a second communication of life. He was not telling Nicodemus to do that for himself, for that's impossible, for men cannot communicate to themselves a new birth or a new life, though many delude themselves into thinking they can .

Lets think about birth for a moment, as we see the analogy of it from natural birth. Does Natural Life exist before it's manifestation at Birth ? When a Mother gives birth to a child for the first time, was that the very beginning of that Child's Life ? If any has any sense at all of the bio of a birth, then you know that the actual birth of a baby was not the beginning of its life, but only the manifestation of a conception and a development, that conception being 9 months prior, under normal circumstances. If this be true of natural birth, then I hesitate not that its equally true of a Spiritual Birth, that is, that a life existed [Spiritually Jn 1:4]] before it is brought into manifestation by Birth.

In order to be born, we must first be the offspring of the One giving Birth. To have been given physical birth into this physical world, we had to be the offspring of our Physical Father, His seed, and so likewise to be given Spiritual Birth, we had to be the offspring of a Spiritual Father ! Isa 53:10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Now I would venture to say that most would agree that this verse is referring to Jesus Christ, and it indicates that He has a seed. The word seed here is the hebrew word zera`and means:

seed, sowing, offspring

a) a sowing

b) seed

c) semen virile

d) offspring, descendants, posterity, children

Jesus has a offspring, Just as a Physical Father has a offspring, so Christ as a Spiritual Father has a offspring, spiritual descendants.

Jesus in the realm of redemption is a Father, even from everlasting, that's what's indicated in Isa 9:6

6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

We know this verse is speaking of the Son of God, and all the different titles belong to Him, one of which is the Everlasting Father. This is not designating Him God the Father,But pointing to His being a Father of a spiritual seed given Him. The word Father is the Hebrew word 'ab and means:

of producer, generator (fig.)

A Generator ! Whats that ? it means:

to bring into existence; cause to be; produce.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the generator of His spiritual offspring, He brings them into existence, produces them, cause them to be !

Their[His Offspring or seed] Life was in Him. Jn 1:4

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

What Life ? The Life of His seed, His Offspring.

All of what I am showing here is important to Jesus statement, "Ye must be born again " and exactly what that means. Jesus means, that one must have a second communication of life given them.

I have a question for the Moderators...

Is it the desire of "Christianforums.net" to allow "preachers" to put up their soapbox and preach away without responding to any comments in the Apologetic forum? Perhaps this sort of posting should be put into the "Proclamation" forum for people interested in reading lectures

Just wondering why this sort of thread seems to be predominant among one particular poster...

Regards

 

[savedbygrace57]

What is a Birth ?

In continuing to understand what Jesus means by " Ye must be born again " we will be more specific as to what a birth is. The greek word in our text is the word gennaō and means:


of men who fathered children

a) to be born

b) to be begotten

1) of women giving birth to children

2) metaph.

a) to engender, cause to arise, excite

b) in a Jewish sense, of one who brings others over to his way of life, to convert someone

c) of God making Christ his son

d) of God making men his sons through faith in Christ's work

As stated earlier, we must be first the offspring of the One giving birth, mainly the Father.

A birth is a continuing of a Father, a Progenitor , of whom they [the seed] take their image after. Remember Gen 5:3-4

3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

The word for beget and begotten in this passage is the Hebrew word yalad and means :

to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail

a) (Qal)

1) to bear, bring forth

a) of child birth

b) of distress (simile)

c) of wicked (behaviour)

2) to beget

b) (Niphal) to be born

c) (Piel)

1) to cause or help to bring forth

2) to assist or tend as a midwife

3) midwife (participle)

d) (Pual) to be born

e) (Hiphil)

1) to beget (a child)

Now how did Seth become Adam's offspring or seed ? Remember Eve said at his birth Gen 4:25

25And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed[Offspring] instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Did Seth become Adam's Offspring by His own will ? Was it His choice to be born of As Adam's seed ? Or was it as Eve stated, that God hath appointed Him their seed or Offspring. We may learn that it's up to God's appointment who belongs to whose offspring and whom they will receive birth.

So its only one way that Seth became the Offspring of Adam, that was by the Sovereign purpose of God.

A birth, a seed, is determined by God, not the freewill of men. Its the continuation of a man's image and likeness.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Jn 12:24

A birth is a continuing of a Father, a Progenitor , of whom they [the seed] take their image after. Remember Gen 5:3-4

3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

The word for beget and begotten in this passage is the Hebrew word yalad and means :

to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail


Remember Jesus words In John 12:24

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jesus here is actually telling us how one is born again, why one is born again. No doubt the Lord Himself is the Corn of Wheat that is about to fall into the ground and die, and if He dies, the resultant effect is that it will bring forth much fruit.

The word bringeth forth is the greek word phero and means:

To produce

The word fruit is the greek word karpos and means:

the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity

Jesus is saying, that if He did not die, He would abide alone as a corn of wheat, but if He dies, This would produce more wheat liken unto Himself, for the law of reproduction is for the seed to bring fort after it's own kind. Lets look at this law put into motion in Gen 1:11-12

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Notice, whose seed was in itself !

Jesus is saying, that as a Corn of Wheat, He has a seed in Himself, and if He dies, this seed of His will be reproduced, it will be brought forth , He will be reproduced. Now how does this reproducing take place ?

Its by being Born Again, receiving a New Birth, His death, His dying, falling into the ground and dying, produces this New Birth, His Spiritual Offspring, His much Fruit.

This is why Peter says in 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jesus Christ is that incorruptible seed [Corn of wheat] of which we are born again. How do we know this ? Because His resurrection from the dead showed that He was incorruptible !

Ps 16:10; Acts 2:27;13:35

And it is by this resurrection of the incorruptible Seed [Corn of wheat] that we [True Believers, Elect] are born again 1 Pet 1:3

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

From the dead ! Remember Jesus said if the Corn of wheat falls into the ground and what ? And dies , be dead. But if it dies , it brings forth much fruit, this Jesus said knowing that He would be raised from the dead. Matt 16:21

From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Matt 17:9

And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

So Jesus knew in Jn 12:24 that He would be risen from the dead as that Corn of wheat that died !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Being born of incorruptible seed !

1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jesus said to Nicodemus these words Jn 3:7

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he must be born again of [out of] incorruptible seed !

Notice the phrase " but of incorruptible" speaking of seed ! As by Nature all men are born of [out of] corruptible seed.

The word of is the greek word ek a preposition denoting:

A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative

out of, from, by, away from


So ones birth must originate out of an source or cause.

In this case the source must be an incorruptible seed. The word of God, which is Christ, The Logos of God Jn 1:1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Rev 19:13

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

The Incarnate Word Jn 1:14 had a seed in Him, that is Life Jn 1:4

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


This is seed Life and so it is incorruptible seed life.

This Life was in Him , Just as seed life was in Adam which however was corruptible life.

So in the same way one was born of corruptible seed of Adam, so likewise one must be born of incorruptible seed, The Word of God, to partake of Spiritual Life.

But one must have had life already in Adam to have been born out of him, and so likewise, one must have life already in The Logos to be born out of Him.

We know that Life was in Him before the incarnation by Jn 1:4

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

The word life is singular and the word men is plural, denoting it was one life for many, a seed Life, a Generation who had life in Him.

 

[for_his_glory]

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Jesus was teaching Nicodemus that it was a Spiritual rebirth or renewal of our spirit that through Gods spoken word we can reconcile our past sins through repentance to be made sinless again before God. We are all born with a sin nature because of sin being introduced into the world through Satan’s deceit when he told Eve it was alright to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil even though God forbid them to eat of it. Our flesh will always sin because that is our nature and God can not see our flesh because of our sins nor can he hear the prayers of a sinner.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshiper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit). We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Colossians 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Colossians 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Colossians 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Colossians 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Colossians 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.


We now have an intercessor (Jesus) who sits at the right hand of the Father and hears our confession that we are sinners and need his salvation as we believe in our heart that he was truly sent from God as the living word that we can indeed become righteous again not of our own righteousness, but that righteousness that is God whom through his Spirit is promised to dwell in us. All we have to do is believe and confess that we are sinners and allow Gods righteousness to cleanse us and renew our spirit man. Jesus wants us to come as we are and allow him to make the changes that need made in our hearts. People want to clean the fish before they catch them, but Jesus says come as you are I will clean you from the inside out.

John 10:9 I am the door, if any man enter in, he shall be saved.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto
the Father, but by me.

Romans 10:9, 10 if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shall be saved. Vs.10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Must have preexisted in Christ to be born again

1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Being born again not of corruptible seed [adam] but of incorruptible seed, the word of God [Christ the Logos Jn 1:1,4,14].

Now understand, in order to have been born of adam of corruptible seed, our very existence in the flesh proves or is evidence that God gave us natural physical life in the earthly adam. This means adam was our natural father or progenitor. Now we did not will our way into adam, ask to be in adam, but this was determined by God. God also determined who, when and where our physical life would be manifested by child birth Acts 17:26

26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Ecclesiastes 3:1-2

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

The key here is understanding that in order to have been born physically, God must have purposed and chose in adam, and gave us physical life in him even before it was developed and manifested. Yes, God chose us in adam.

Now, in order to be born of incorruptible seed into a spiritual life, one must have been in Christ the Spiritual Father or Progenitor, we must have been given to Him for His Spiritual Offspring, in other words, we must have been chosen in Him as part of His seed. If one is truly born again, it demonstrates that we were Chosen in Him and God gave us Spiritual Life in Him before the world began. Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim 1:9.

So when Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again, in essence Jesus was telling him that he must be one of the chosen ones in Him before the world began. To be born of incorruptible seed, which is Christ, the Logos of God..

 

[Eventide]

God must have purposed and chose in adam, and gave us physical life in him even before it was developed and manifested. Yes, God chose us in adam.

False..

God chooses us in Christ..

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

 

[savedbygrace57]

even:

False..

So how did adam's offspring get into him ?

 

[felix]

I have a question for the Moderators...

Is it the desire of "Christianforums.net" to allow "preachers" to put up their soapbox and preach away without responding to any comments in the Apologetic forum? Perhaps this sort of posting should be put into the "Proclamation" forum for people interested in reading lectures

Just wondering why this sort of thread seems to be predominant among one particular poster...

Regards

I agree with francisdesales ...

 

[savedbygrace57]

I agree with francisdesales ...

I am very much inclined to respond to any post that is directly related to the subject and what I have posted. If you like, choose anything I have posted, quote it, show me your challenge and why..

 

[felix]

I am very much inclined to respond to any post that is directly related to the subject and what I have posted. If you like, choose anything I have posted, quote it, show me your challenge and why..

The real problem is, you seem to dump and after reading a number of posts, I still can't find what you really want.

Make things simpler / easier: If you have many things to be shared or discussed, I would prefer going one by one as a separate thread, instead of everything in a single thread.

 

[savedbygrace57]

felix

The real problem is, you seem to dump and after reading a number of posts, I still can't find what you really want.

Get back back with me when you can respond with a challenge to what I actually have posted, until then, don't expect anymore correspondence from me.

 

[Webb]

I agree with Francis

 

[childeye]

I think that what SBG has to say is too big a picture for most to grasp all at once. There are many topics intertwined in purporting the Truth. Sometimes when we disagree we simply misunderstand. Obviously the point SBG is always driving at is a circumspective of God that is difficult if not impossible to convey succinctly. I like the posts even if I don't always understand them. I'm sure SBG doesn't post for the sake of being popular. SBG seeks no glory, and I do not see the harm being done. I would encourage SBG to try to be more patient and understanding. Love is really quite simple.

 

[francisdesales]

I am very much inclined to respond to any post that is directly related to the subject and what I have posted. If you like, choose anything I have posted, quote it, show me your challenge and why..

I am STILL waiting for an answer on Romans 5. You keep ignoring it... It isn't going away.

Do you think Adam's role was more universal and greater than Jesus???

In the "IF"/"THEN" statement, do we ever find the "IF" side stronger and more powerful as a rhetorical tool of argument??? Either they are equal or the "THEN" side is even better!!!

According to you, the "IF" side, Adam, is more powerful. Inability to make proper rhetorical arguments and text twisting will not do. Please explain this, I have yet to hear you respond to this, and I have posted that at least a half a dozen times to you in the last few months.

Regards

 

[Eventide]

even:



So how did adam's offspring get into him ?

By ADOPTION... and Eph tells us that it was after we trusted in Christ, after hearing the gospel, and that after we believed we were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise..

It's fundamental that NONE are chosen in Adam and ALL are chosen IN CHRIST.

 

[savedbygrace57]

A Birth

A Birth is not the Creation or origination of Life, but the manifestation of life and is termed procreation. The natural man that a believer has [ as by nature children of wrath] is also called the old man Eph 4:22; Col 3:9, for this was created in Adam, but procreation by natural generation. That New Man Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Also see New Creature 2 Cor 5:17

Immortal Life in a Believer [Eternal or Everlasting Life], or the inward man as Rom 7:22; 2 Cor 4:16, This Life was given us in Christ Jesus before the World began, and is made manifest by Spiritual Generation when Born of God, and presented with the Gospel, for the Gospel brings this immortal life to light or manifestation 2 Tim 1:9-10

Thats why Jesus says, those believing on Him during His Public Ministry, were having Eternal Life Jn 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Those believing on Him were born of Incorruptible Seed !

 

[Elijah674]

[Mankind] has to be brought back to the 'spiritual' perfection that Adam had before sin. Rom. 8:1 is that Justification [[IN CHRIST]]. And man is not.. as Adam was not OSAS. There is the Rom. 8:14 verse of being Led if one will be??

And the purpose is that the Godhead REQUIRE man to be [[fully Matured]] to be safe to save throughout all of the rest of Eternity! Nah. 1:9.

The Eternal Grace is GIVEN as seen in Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9, yet, again NO ONE IS PROGRAMED OR FORCED to [always Lovingly follow God!] Otherwise it would not be LOVING FAITH.

--Elijah

 

[savedbygrace57]

1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

When Peter writes of being born again of incorruptible seed, there is no reason why it is not the seed we read of in Isa 53:10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

This is the seed of the Suffering Servant, which is the word of God made flesh John 1:1,14

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Also see Rev 19:13

For Peter goes on to write, being born again,of that incorruptible seed, by the word of God !

The Logos of God. Yes the Logos of God, was given a Seed Isa 53:10

And as He it was and is incorruptible. In order to enter the Kingdom of God, one must be born of this incorruptible seed,

The only way to be born of this incorruptible seed, we would have to be in that seed, and that's done solely by God's Sovereign and Eternal Purpose.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

A born again Christian is IMPUTED JESUS' HOLY SPIRIT BIRTH!!!