You can be ONCE SAVED and ALWAYS SAVED!

[reba]

TruthSeeker2012

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


Are the above verses the true Word of God? Yes or no

Do yo say you have no sin? Yes or No

 

[John Zain]

John, read these verses carefully:
1 John 5:12-13 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life
Now I ask you... can a Christian who has faith in the Son as their personal Savior, KNOW THAT THEY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE? Mind you, not TEMPORARY LIFE but ETERNAL LIFE? Yes or No?
Also..do you believe it's IMPOSSIBLE for a Christian to be ONCE SAVED and ALWAYS SAVED? Yes or No?

You're not comprehending that there is a bit of depth here.

You think you know "who has the Son", but you don't.
Who's to say?
I'll tell you who's to say ... God.
He's the One who knows "who has the Son", not Joe and not you.

From the truth of the doctrine of election, Father God decides who to give the Son to.
So, that takes care of your boldness above.
Chew on this, and maybe you won't be so demanding for Yes's and No's.

 

[francisdesales]

So you now openly and honestly admit that the ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED DOCTRINE is NOT a LIE FROM THE DEVIL? Yes or No?

And do you also now admit that it's POSSIBLE FOR A CHRISTIAN TO BE ONCE SAVED AND ALWAYS SAVED? Yes or No?

May I answer by qualifying your question? I can't say "YES or NO".

Is it from the devil? I can't say.

When (if) a person gets to heaven, they will stand back and look at their life to the point where they "became saved". The answer will be "of course I was OSAS, because here I am"...

Unfortunately, none of us have that foresight. No one knows if they are going to actually persevere. Thus, it is not possible for anyone to CURRENTLY know that they are "OSAS".

If you could, how would you explain all those people who were "OSAS" and later fell away? You can't say "they never were saved", because they proclaimed that they would never fall away, they were OSAS!!! It is a teaching of "sour grapes".

It is a false teaching for men walking the earth "working out their salvation in fear and trembling". Only God knows who is "OSAS". You don't, nor do I. We cannot honestly say "I will be one".

Thus, for us, the "theory" is pointless and has absolutely no practical use here on earth... Is it from the devil? I don't know, but it certainly can lead to the preposterous notion that there is no longer the need to persevere.

Regards

 

[jasoncran]

and when one read the verse he that overcomes will i confess before my father and his angels jesus cant be saying that to himself.

 

[francisdesales]

and when one read the verse he that overcomes will i confess before my father and his angels jesus cant be saying that to himself.

True. People who teach "OSAS" must ignore a great amount of Scriptures to delude themselves into thinking this is the "gospel".

Regards

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

TruthSeeker2012

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


Are the above verses the true Word of God? Yes or no

Do yo say you have no sin? Yes or No

1. YES, but your interpretation of the verses are incorrect!

2. No!

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

and when one read the verse he that overcomes will i confess before my father and his angels jesus cant be saying that to himself.

I noticed you have completely sidestepped and ran and hid from my questions, so I will try asking you again:

1. Define "repentance".

2. Have you perfectly repented? Yes or No?

3. Are you lost until you can perfectly repent of all your sins? Yes or No?

4. Do you still admit that a Christian can be ONCE SAVED AND ALWAYS SAVED? Yes or No?

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

May I answer by qualifying your question? I can't say "YES or NO".

Is it from the devil? I can't say.

When (if) a person gets to heaven, they will stand back and look at their life to the point where they "became saved". The answer will be "of course I was OSAS, because here I am"...

Unfortunately, none of us have that foresight. No one knows if they are going to actually persevere. Thus, it is not possible for anyone to CURRENTLY know that they are "OSAS".

If you could, how would you explain all those people who were "OSAS" and later fell away? You can't say "they never were saved", because they proclaimed that they would never fall away, they were OSAS!!! It is a teaching of "sour grapes".

It is a false teaching for men walking the earth "working out their salvation in fear and trembling". Only God knows who is "OSAS". You don't, nor do I. We cannot honestly say "I will be one".

Thus, for us, the "theory" is pointless and has absolutely no practical use here on earth... Is it from the devil? I don't know, but it certainly can lead to the preposterous notion that there is no longer the need to persevere.

Regards

Matthew 5:37 Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and? your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

 

[francisdesales]

Matthew 5:37 Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and? your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

This response means "I can't make a legitimate response to your critique, so I must complain about an answer longer than one word".

The Scripture citation has nothing to do with this context. It speaks about not being two faced and wishy-washy, not about answering a trick question.

You need to ask yourself your motives for asking a loaded question with the intent of tricking someone.

 

[childeye]

This response means "I can't make a legitimate response to your critique, so I must complain about an answer longer than one word".

The Scripture citation has nothing to do with this context. It speaks about not being two faced and wishy-washy, not about answering a trick question.

You need to ask yourself your motives for asking a loaded question with the intent of tricking someone.

Good to see you posting Joe. I missed Francis de sales' potrait.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

This response means "I can't make a legitimate response to your critique, so I must complain about an answer longer than one word".

The Scripture citation has nothing to do with this context. It speaks about not being two faced and wishy-washy, not about answering a trick question.

You need to ask yourself your motives for asking a loaded question with the intent of tricking someone.

The Bible condemns people who false accuse their neighbour. And you have made false accusations towards me, judging me and condemning me! I recommend you REPENT immediately!

I am not tricking anyone.. my questions are VALID and FAIR, and instead of maturely answering me, you insult me instead. Is it any wonder you are angry and abusive with that on your mind? I have a purpose for asking the questions I am asking and I am not trying to trick anyone or trying to be evil as you suggest!

Now back on topic.... please focus on question and answer honestly.

Is it POSSIBLE for a Christian to be ONCE SAVED and ALWAYS SAVED? Yes or No?

Matthew 5:37 Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and? your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

Notice you have never given a straight Yes or No, and notice carefully you went BEYOND a yes or no answer and look what happened, you insulted me and judged my heart. Does Mat 5:37 make sense to you now? ANYTHING beyond the YES OR NO comes from the EVIL ONE! You understand now don't you?

 

[elijah23]

As long as you refrain from sin, you are okay. When you give in to temptation, life gets painful. This will always be true, I believe.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

As long as you refrain from sin, you are okay. When you give in to temptation, life gets painful. This will always be true, I believe.

That I agree with. If I get tempted and stumble into sin, I get very depressed and sad and my heart aches. I truly hate sinning, I detest it. The law is good and I love obedience and get very sad and discouraged when I sin.

But unlike you, I have never successfully ceased from sinning and being a sinner and I remain a sinner.

 

[elijah23]

That I agree with. If I get tempted and stumble into sin, I get very depressed and sad and my heart aches. I truly hate sinning, I detest it. The law is good and I love obedience and get very sad and discouraged when I sin.

But unlike you, I have never successfully ceased from sinning and being a sinner and I remain a sinner.

If you continue to try not to sin, you will succeed at some point.

What is helpful is to realize what sin is. Unchastity, pride, insobriety, and failing to love the Lord our God with all our hearts, minds, and souls are common sins, I believe.

 

[jasoncran]

I noticed you have completely sidestepped and ran and hid from my questions, so I will try asking you again:

1. Define "repentance".

2. Have you perfectly repented? Yes or No?

3. Are you lost until you can perfectly repent of all your sins? Yes or No?

4. Do you still admit that a Christian can be ONCE SAVED AND ALWAYS SAVED? Yes or No?

i have never said that , you cant answer this.

are you a sinner or a child of god? do you believe that christ's sinless perfection is already yours, if so then this denies that for out of thy mouth ..

But unlike you, I have never successfully ceased from sinning and being a sinner and I remain a sinner.

so you dont believe you are saved? that you can be set free from sin? or arent?

the issue of eternal security isnt as so clear as joe says. i have debated this very issue from both sides. i am not in anyway pushing legalism. i was raised a jw, i know what that entails i cant do it.

but..if i love my wife i do things to please her, the same with God but we can fall out of love with both. i can turn from my wife and not love her and the same with god.

you in respond claim that we arent able to leave christ? how so? do you know that? theres a ton of verses that warn against that.

the verse in revalation says just that. no man can be once saved always saved. christ said if ye abide in me,.. and if you love me you will keep commandments.

i bring up freewill withyou as that implies we can and must have the option to reject god at all times. you say once we fall in love we never would turn from God.so an totally depraved sinner has such power to keep himself?

what this? no, so then what is it. no freewill?

 

[francisdesales]

The Bible condemns people who false accuse their neighbour. And you have made false accusations towards me, judging me and condemning me! I recommend you REPENT immediately!

When people demand one word answers from me and criticize me for trying to explain myself with a few more sentences, they are trying to corner me with trick questions that are not answerable with one word. "False accusations" are when someone lies about something. I am not lying about anything - in my view, what you are doing is trying to trick people. If I am wrong, very well, but that is not a "false accusation" according to the Bible. A false accusation is knowingly saying something false about someone else.

I am not tricking anyone.. my questions are VALID and FAIR, and instead of maturely answering me, you insult me instead.

You are joking, right?

Don't give me the self-righteous act. I ANSWERED you. You are upset because i answered you with a few sentences, RATHER than a single word???

Please, spare me the whining. If you disagree with the content of my answer, please address it. Don't complain about me because I tried to give a better, more nuanced answer. We are talking theology here, and such deep subjects usually cannot be answered with one word. My response was not overly long, nor was it complicated. You reaction to my several sentences (and continued responses) tells me your motives, sir...

Is it any wonder you are angry and abusive with that on your mind? I have a purpose for asking the questions I am asking and I am not trying to trick anyone or trying to be evil as you suggest!

You are the one being abusive, in my opinion. You are complaining because I answered you with a few sentences, rather than one word, even trying to text-twist Scritpures out of context to back up your self-righteous "anger".

If you have a valid purpose for asking a question, you should be MORE GRATEFUL that someone is trying to answer you more intelligently, rather than your crying and moaning over an answer longer than one word. When someone tells me "yes or no" RIGHT OFF THE BAT, they are trying to catch someone with a loaded question. They are NOT interested in a more careful explanation. that is pretty obvious, don't you think?

Why didn't you just respond to my answer, rather than complain that it was not one word? Ask yourself that, sir...

Now back on topic.... please focus on question and answer honestly.

Is it POSSIBLE for a Christian to be ONCE SAVED and ALWAYS SAVED? Yes or No?

Matthew 5:37 Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and? your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

I have already answered your question, and more trickery re-asked will not give you a different answer. My answer is the same as before, and I explained myself. If you are having difficulty understanding my answer, let me know and I will try again to give an answer. But it won't be one word, my friend.

Now, since you post Scriptures, incorrectly, I will direct YOU to Scriptures. Note when Jesus is asked by Pharisees who are attempting to trick Him. On numerous occasions - such as about marriage or paying taxes to the Romans or whether to stone the adulteress woman in John's Gospel - what does Jesus do? It is apparent that YOUR citation are not applicable in every case, are they??? ;)


For example:

And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. John 8:3-6

DOES JESUS GIVE ONE WORD ANSWERS TO TRICKSTERS, people trying to entrapt Him? Nor will I do the same for you, since I see through your "demands"...

I will explain the truth of the matter, and if you react in the same way again, you are merely proving the point of your motives. If you are truly desiring discussion, you will jettison this attempt to trap me and just make plain discussion.

Regards

 

[Free]

The Bible condemns people who false accuse their neighbour. And you have made false accusations towards me, judging me and condemning me! I recommend you REPENT immediately!

Yet you have falsely judged in a much more serious way:

"So as you can see... many people think they had once been a Christian and turned away from Jesus, but the reality and truth is, they never trusted in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour to begin with, they were just calling themselves "christian", nothing more."

Notice you have never given a straight Yes or No, and notice carefully you went BEYOND a yes or no answer and look what happened, you insulted me and judged my heart. Does Mat 5:37 make sense to you now? ANYTHING beyond the YES OR NO comes from the EVIL ONE! You understand now don't you?

Everyone is correct: such questions cannot be answered with a mere yes or no. To expect such answers is not at all a good way of "doing theology."

 

[reba]

The Bible condemns people who false accuse their neighbour. And you have made false accusations towards me, judging me and condemning me! I recommend you REPENT immediately!

I am not tricking anyone.. my questions are VALID and FAIR, and instead of maturely answering me, you insult me instead. Is it any wonder you are angry and abusive with that on your mind? I have a purpose for asking the questions I am asking and I am not trying to trick anyone or trying to be evil as you suggest!

Now back on topic.... please focus on question and answer honestly.

Is it POSSIBLE for a Christian to be ONCE SAVED and ALWAYS SAVED? Yes or No?

Matthew 5:37 Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and? your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

Notice you have never given a straight Yes or No, and notice carefully you went BEYOND a yes or no answer and look what happened, you insulted me and judged my heart. Does Mat 5:37 make sense to you now? ANYTHING beyond the YES OR NO comes from the EVIL ONE! You understand now don't you?

And where do your long statements come from? Does not Mat 5:37 apply to you?
Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

This says communication does not say your answer to a question.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

I find it amazing how many people try to tell me and others that the ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED doctrine is a lie and from the Devil...yet when I ask them the following question, they REFUSE to provide a direct Yes or No answer and instead desperately try to sidestep and change topics and making claims I am trying to trick them etc. They DESPERATELY say anything to avoid having to answer because they know their answer will contradict their earlier comments.

If anyone tells you that OSAS is a doctrine from the Devil, then ask them this following question and then watch them squirm, sidestep, desperately try to change topics, falsely accuse you and run and hide from the question:

Is it IMPOSSIBLE for a Christian to be ONCE SAVED and ALWAYS SAVED? Yes or No?

It never fails...try it for yourselves folks They won't address the question with a direct and honest answer...they will instead babble on and on about how bad person you are and how bad motives you have and they will try to desperately change the focus of the conversation. TRY IT AND SEE LOL.

 

[francisdesales]

I find it amazing how many people try to tell me and others that the ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED doctrine is a lie and from the Devil...yet when I ask them the following question, they REFUSE to provide a direct Yes or No answer and instead desperately try to sidestep and change topics and making claims I am trying to trick them etc. They DESPERATELY say anything to avoid having to answer because they know their answer will contradict their earlier comments.

No one is AVOIDING anything! I answered your question honestly and directly, Mr. False Accuser!!! 2

Stop crying in your cereal already and babbling about how someone didn't fall into your little trap...

If you are concerned with discussing this, then discuss away.

It is apparent what your motives are, because you focus on the "yes"/"no" trick answer, rather than addressing the CONTENT of my response. The more you whine about it, the more obvious it becomes and that I am right.

Forum, what do you think? Did I not answer this guy's question? :help

It seems that "Truthseeker" is not interested in discussion, but trapping people. Just like the Pharisees. We've already seen him in action with Felix... Look how he acts towards him!

Don't expect more than what the Pharisees got. Jesus saw through them, and I see through your motives.