Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need

    https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/

  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

  • Looking to grow in the word of God more?

    See our Bible Studies and Devotionals sections in Christian Growth

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Have questions about the Christian faith?

    Come ask us what's on your mind in Questions and Answers

  • Wearing the right shoes, and properly clothed spiritually?

    Join Elected By Him for a devotional on Ephesians 6:14-15

    https://christianforums.net/threads/devotional-selecting-the-proper-shoes.109094/

Your unsaved deceased loved ones are not eternally lost unless they want to be

I am very careful. You are correct its an "ETERNAL SIN" to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, but you missed THAT requires there must be "less than eternal sins" that can be forgiven.

[#R]
“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men…in the age to come.”

All who knowingly oppose Christ are opposed to Christ and can't be forgiven: All knowingly against Jesus who is God the Son are also committing ETERNAL SIN, just as those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit. But those who blaspheme the "Son of Man" see only Jesus' human flesh, and therefore can be forgiven:



Sins committed in ignorance can be forgiven (Heb. 5:2; 9:7; 1 Tim. 1:13; Lev. 5:18; Ez. 45:20; Lk. 12:48). That is why blasphemy against the Son of Man whose Incarnate Deity is veiled by Human Flesh can be forgiven. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven as His Deity was fully revealed in the Divine Truth and miracles only God can do.


Ignorance of Christ determines if one belongs to the “many” whose sins are covered by His eternal sacrifice (Heb. 9:26-28). The timing of this forgiveness begins at Christ’s Second Coming when He appears to those eagerly waiting for Him for salvation which is when “the age to come” (ἐν τῷ μέλλοντι Mt. 12:32; Eph. 1:21) begins:


At Christ’s second coming those “in the grave” who died in ignorance of Christ are forgiven “every sin and blasphemy” and if they obey the gospel of Christ preached “also” to them they will be “judged according to men in the flesh” covered by the sacrifice of Christ for sins and rise in the resurrection to life when Christ appears “a second time…for salvation” (John 5:28-29; 1 Pet. 4:5-6; Heb. 9:27-28; 1 Thess. 4:13-17; 2 Thess. 2:1; 1 Cor. 15:23, 51-57).

This excludes all who committed eternal sins like blaspheming the Holy Spirit (Mt. 12:32), stumbling one of God’s children (Mk. 9:42-48), accepting the Mark of the Beast or worshipping him (Rev. 14:9-11).

So you missed Christ's point entirely. Its a contrast between sins done in ignorance, and willful sin.


Mark 16:16 isn't pertinent to sin done in ignorance
.

I agree baptism isn't required for salvation, baptism was how people proved they truely believed. Baptism was a public confession Jesus is LORD.

When Jews were baptized in Jesus' Name they were cast out of the synagogue and persecuted, sometime to death. So true belief was indicated by baptism. If they weren't baptized they weren't true believers. True believers (sent by Christ to evangelize) also proved their identity by doing miraculous signs:

12 After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country.
13 And they went and told it to the rest, but they did not believe them either.
14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.
15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen. (Mk. 16:12-20 NKJ)

Those who claimed to be apostles sent by Christ manifested signs proving they were "true believers". This prophecy was fulfilled by Christ's disciples in the 1st century.

But its not relevant to Eternal sin, or sins done ignorantly.

You weren't careful when interpreting this scripture. You confused them.
You said: “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men…in the age to come.”

Alfred----- you are literally adding something at the end that it DOES NOT SAY. Read the verses again carefully:


31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
32 "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matt. 12:31-32 NKJ)"

It says NOTHING about sins being forgiven in the AGE TO COME. It is speaking of the present time when it speaks of "all sins" that may be forgiven men. He then states that the Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven NOW, or even in the age to come. He is stating it is UNFORGIVABLE----both NOW and FOREVER.

You are once again twisting scripture to back your doctrine-----rather than submitting to True doctrine from the Bible. Don't you understand? Many have tried to state that there is forgiveness after death----the Catholic Church has "purgatory" where one can "work off" their sins to gain entrance into Heaven. But the Bible clearly teaches that we either receive the truth in THIS LIFE, or reject it and receive damnation as is stated in Mark 16:16.
 
You said: “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men…in the age to come.”

Alfred----- you are literally adding something at the end that it DOES NOT SAY. Read the verses again carefully:


31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
32 "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matt. 12:31-32 NKJ)"

It says NOTHING about sins being forgiven in the AGE TO COME. It is speaking of the present time when it speaks of "all sins" that may be forgiven men. He then states that the Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven NOW, or even in the age to come. He is stating it is UNFORGIVABLE----both NOW and FOREVER.

You are once again twisting scripture to back your doctrine-----rather than submitting to True doctrine from the Bible. Don't you understand? Many have tried to state that there is forgiveness after death----the Catholic Church has "purgatory" where one can "work off" their sins to gain entrance into Heaven. But the Bible clearly teaches that we either receive the truth in THIS LIFE, or reject it and receive damnation as is stated in Mark 16:16.
I don't agree. I think its common sense reading of the text. If I said "Everything costs money, and if you don't pay you are stealing. That is true either in this Administration, or the Administration to come."

Theft exists in both administrations.

So Christ's statement. Every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven (if people repent), either in this age or the age to come which includes the after life.

Only sins done in ignorance of God and His requirements will recieve such mercy. Sins willfully done must be paid for, God will not permit the wicked go unpunished.

Ignorance springs from self-delusion and slavery to sin. It does not follow those who vaguely know the gospel really have thought about it, and in full knowledge rejected it. For example, most Americans are raised to believe in Evolution, that its "fact" and religion "fantasy". So many good people have died believing the lies of this world.

Should God condemn them? Would a human judge condemn the ignorant to such a horrible fate due to the indoctrination they received orchastrated by Satan?

No.

God is Just and Merciful. He goes the extra mile to save sinners who die unsaved. He purges whatever imprisons them, fully informs them of the truth, and then with a restored free will they can choose life.

Everyone righteous will do that. Only the wicked reject it, being unable to live in God's light and Holiness, in truth and love.

Something is clearly wrong when the above is considered "unorthodox", while the conclusion God will eternally torment those who died unsaved (those He personally didn't elect to be saved), is "orthodox."
 
Last edited:
Back
Top