The Passover of God

[Jethro Bodine]

I will assume Jethro Bodine that you believe in the doctrine of the trinity. I will also assume that you believe the Spirit of God dwells with you and teaches you from his word. So if you believe His Spirit is with you, and if you profess the trinity doctrine to be true, then why do you look for the coming of another?

Coming of another what?

 

[ezrider]

I'm pretty sure you are the one making the boast of superior, extra-Biblical revelation.

I am making no boast, but you are correct, it is about living by FAITH. I only pointed to the seven thunders simply because what they said was not written, and therefore by any knowledge of our own gained from the written word will never know what the seven thunders said.

 

[ezrider]

Coming of another what?

Not of another coming what? But why do you look for the coming of another Jesus?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I am making no boast, but you are correct, it is about living by FAITH.

I knew this is what you'd say.
See, I started out in the charismatic movement where 'having faith' is understood as being guided by active, real-time voices that inform you about things. And, as you are showing, is always contrasted with being guided by written words. As if that's what it means to live by faith vs. live by law. In the context that Paul talks about that, it means the difference between being justified by believing in God through the power of faith, and being justified by the effort of keeping the law. (Galatians 3:11-12 NASB)

If you had a receptive spirit about this topic I'd walk you through how the church has distorted Paul's message of law/ grace, and as a result, arrived at some of the erroneous and misguided doctrinal beliefs that they have.

I only pointed to the seven thunders simply because what they said was not written, and therefore by any knowledge of our own gained from the written word will never know what the seven thunders said.

And you made the erroneous assumption that the argument is 'the Bible is the source of all knowledge'. Obviously, the Bible itself says some things have simply not been revealed to man.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Not of another coming what? But why do you look for the coming of another Jesus?

Same Jesus. What the heck are you talking about?

"This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11 NASB)

I know that it probably doesn't mean much to you, but that is what the scriptures say.

 

[ezrider]

Same Jesus. What the heck are you talking about?

"This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11 NASB)

I know that it probably doesn't mean much to you, but that is what the scriptures say.

And the scripture goes on to say that they should look to his coming in ten days time. And sure enough as he had promised them, the Holy Ghost came upon them on the day of Pentecost, and again after that. The promise of his coming has always been about His Spirit dwelling with man. So if you believe yourself to be born again, and if you believe that the Spirit of Christ is present with you, than as someone who professes the oneness of God in the Trinity doctrine, why do you look for the coming of another Jesus if His Spirit is already with you?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And the scripture goes on to say that they should look to his coming in ten days time. And sure enough as he had promised them, the Holy Ghost came upon them on the day of Pentecost, and again after that. The promise of his coming has always been about His Spirit dwelling with man. So if you believe yourself to be born again, and if you believe that the Spirit of Christ is present with you, than as someone who professes the oneness of God in the Trinity doctrine, why do you look for the coming of another Jesus if His Spirit is already with you?

"...in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven." (vs. 11)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Shortly after getting saved in 1986, I heard a voice in my heart say 'open your eyes' (I had them closed during a praise and worship service). I was looking up and I saw the Holy Spirit coming down onto the congregation. Everybody had their eyes closed but as soon as it got to the tops of their heads they exploded simultaneously in tongues.

The obvious questions in light of the discussion here is how can the Holy Spirit be separately outside of them, and yet come to them from outside of them too? And how do I confirm and validate the experience except that I have some written guidance to do so?

 

[JLB]

And the scripture goes on to say that they should look to his coming in ten days time.

Please share the scripture that says this. That His Coming is to be looked for in ten days time.


JLB

 

[ezrider]

"...in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven." (vs. 11)

Neither you nor I was around two thousand years ago to be a witness to these events. So what they saw I cannot say, but I tell you that I do not deny this scripture, for as I saw Him go, so did I see him come. Or in other words, I did not see Him ascend into heaven, nor did I see him come again, but His presence I can not deny. As it is written, I come as a thief. That is what Faith is all about.

 

[Sinthesis]

Neither you nor I was around two thousand years ago to be a witness to these events. So what they saw I cannot say, but I tell you that I do not deny this scripture, for as I saw Him go, so did I see him come. Or in other words, I did not see Him ascend into heaven, nor did I see him come again, but His presence I can not deny. As it is written, I come as a thief. That is what Faith is all about.

Jhn 20:29 - Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
​

If you worship Jesus as God the Son then you acknowledge Jesus' accent into Heaven. The importance of the accent was not in its physical direction, but in the realized elevation of The Person Jesus to heavenly status worthy of worship in the same way as God the Father. The danger for Mary and all Jesus' followers was that they would cling to and worship His human physical nature at the expense of His divine spiritual nature. He left after forty days to force the issue. Jesus is not the same Person as the Comforter He sends in His stead.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So if you believe yourself to be born again, and if you believe that the Spirit of Christ is present with you, than as someone who professes the oneness of God in the Trinity doctrine, why do you look for the coming of another Jesus if His Spirit is already with you?

Same Jesus, same Son. Not another one. He is in heaven now ministering before the Father in the true Tabernacle. And he is going to come back:

24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And inasmuch * as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. (Hebrews 9:24-28 NASB)

9 For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 NASB)

 

[ezrider]

Same Jesus, same Son. Not another one. He is in heaven now ministering before the Father in the true Tabernacle. And he is going to come back:

24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And inasmuch * as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. (Hebrews 9:24-28 NASB)

9 For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 NASB)

Hebrews 9:28 does not describe an event in which Jesus will appear in the clouds for every eye to behold. Quite the contrary, Hebrews 9:28 actually describes what could be considered a secret coming, because he appears ONLY to those who earnestly wait upon Him. His "second" coming as referred to in Hebrews 9:28 is the coming of the Holy Spirit, just as Jesus told us it would be in John 14.

John 14:15-18 If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

 

[gracenote]

Hebrews 9:28 does not describe an event in which Jesus will appear in the clouds for every eye to behold. Quite the contrary, Hebrews 9:28 actually describes what could be considered a secret coming, because he appears ONLY to those who earnestly wait upon Him. His "second" coming as referred to in Hebrews 9:28 is the coming of the Holy Spirit, just as Jesus told us it would be in John 14.

John 14:15-18 If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Oh, that's so lovely!
{tears}

 

[JLB]

Hebrews 9:28 does not describe an event in which Jesus will appear in the clouds for every eye to behold. Quite the contrary, Hebrews 9:28 actually describes what could be considered a secret coming, because he appears ONLY to those who earnestly wait upon Him. His "second" coming as referred to in Hebrews 9:28 is the coming of the Holy Spirit, just as Jesus told us it would be in John 14.

John 14:15-18 If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Wrong again.

The Holy Spirit was poured out by Jesus, on the day of Pentecost.

Hebrews 9:28, referring to the future return of Jesus Christ, was written around 65 AD.

Furthermore, Hebrews 9:28 says -

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

It is to those who eagerly wait for Him, He will appear for salvation.

He will appear to all, either for salvation or judgement.

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Oh, that's so lovely!
{tears}

But oh so false.
He says Christ has already come again in the giving of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. And yet we have Paul praising the Thessalonian church for turning to God from idols and for waiting for Jesus from heaven:

9 For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 NASB)

Later in the letter he explains to them this coming of Jesus back to the earth and how we will be gathered to him in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15). And in his next letter to them he tells them to not be deceived by any report that the coming of Jesus and our being gathered to him has already occurred:

"1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. " (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 NASB)

 

[gracenote]

But oh so false.
He says Christ has already come again in the giving of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. And yet we have Paul praising the Thessalonian church for turning to God from idols and for waiting for Jesus from heaven:

9 For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 NASB)

Later in the letter he explains to them this coming of Jesus back to the earth and how we will be gathered to him in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15). And in his next letter to them he tells them to not be deceived by any report that the coming of Jesus and our being gathered to him has already occurred:

"1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. " (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 NASB)

So if Jesus Himself poured out the Holy Spirit, then can we not connect the two?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So if Jesus Himself poured out the Holy Spirit, then can we not connect the two?

Christ coming back to us via the Holy Spirit so we won't be left as orphans, and the literal return of his body are two distinct things. If I understand what ezrider is saying he says there is no physical return and that the second return of Christ happened already on the Day of Pentecost.

Your gladness at the knowledge of the 'appearance' at this time of Christ via the Holy Spirit is appropriate. But that is not the return of Christ at the end of the age. Nor does it replace it. Those are two different things.

 

[gracenote]

Christ coming back to us via the Holy Spirit so we won't be left as orphans, and the literal return of his body are two distinct things. If I understand what ezrider is saying he says there is no physical return and that the second return of Christ happened already on the Day of Pentecost.

Your gladness at the knowledge of the 'appearance' at this time of Christ via the Holy Spirit is appropriate. But that is not the return of Christ at the end of the age. Nor does it replace it. Those are two different things.

yes. I see that. I think that's what scripture told me as a young teenager long, long ago!
That, of course, was before I went prodigal and eventually returned.
God's Peace to you through Christ

 

[ezrider]

Wrong again.

The Holy Spirit was poured out by Jesus, on the day of Pentecost.

But oh so false.
He says Christ has already come again in the giving of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

So, the question to both of you: Are you now then saying that the only time the Holy Spirit was sent forth was on the day of Pentecost? That certainly appears to be the claim that you are insinuating by your very comments. Care to explain?