The Passover of God

[ezrider]

We've been over this already. I confess my sins which are then wiped away completely, not covered over:

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9 NASB)

The ministry of Jesus is always there in heaven for me to do that for me today, and in the future (that is, as long as I continue to have faith that it is there for me and so rely on it to do that for me):

I asked you how you account for your daily sins, not how you see a specific scripture, and yet you quote a scripture that instructs you to confess your sins to be cleansed. You said that you confess your sins which are then wiped away.

When you confess your daily sins, do you lay them to the Blood of Christ?

 

[ezrider]

When I started this OP on the Passover of God, it was to draw a distinction between the Passover and the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

In the Passover, the blood was shed so the Angel of Death would pass over, and their sins were not imputed unto them.
In the death and resurrection of Christ, we no longer need that the Angel of Death pass over us, for Christ has become death for us, and all of our sins have been imputed unto Him. If we still seek that the Angel of Death should continue to pass over, then we have not come to the knowledge that Christ has already swallowed up death in victory. And if we do not know our own death in Christ, then how shall we know our life in Christ through His resurrection?

 

[ezrider]

First man Adam
Last man Adam

Romans 5:12-21
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:21-22
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:45-47
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

The scripture seems to make it pretty clear that Death came upon all as the result of Adam's transgression, and Life to all through the obedience of Christ in his death and resurrection. So the story begins with Adam and ends with Christ; Where in all of this does it matter what the law of Moses has to say? The transgressions according to the law of sin and death under the old covenant do not even come into play as it pertains to our salvation in life and death according to the sin of Adam's transgression. First man Adam; Last man Adam.

 

[JLB]

The transgressions according to the law of sin and death under the old covenant do not even come into play as it pertains to our salvation in life and death according to the sin of Adam's transgression. First man Adam; Last man Adam.

I think you are confusing the law of sin and death, with the law of Moses.

The law of sin and death is not associated with the old or the new covenant, but to all people from Adam to the last person who will live on earth.

The law of sin and death does affect everyone, and especially those who does not walk in the Spirit.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:1-2


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I asked you how you account for your daily sins, not how you see a specific scripture, and yet you quote a scripture that instructs you to confess your sins to be cleansed. You said that you confess your sins which are then wiped away.

I know nothing. My opinions about the matter are worthless. I go with what the Bible says. That is where my faith and confidence come from that Christ is on the altar in heaven for me and is the substance of my forgiveness. If you have any disagreement with me in this matter then you are also in disagreement with what the scriptures teach. Which you are certainly entitled to, but I'm going to stick with the scriptures.

When you confess your daily sins, do you lay them to the Blood of Christ?

I know that it is the blood of Christ in the true, heavenly Temple that makes forgiveness possible. I can ask for forgiveness with confidence, knowing that the blood of Christ and the ministry of Christ's Priesthood is always before the Father making intercession for me:

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
(1 John 1:9 NASB)

23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed *in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing,
24 but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.
25 Therefore He is able also to save forever * those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them."
(Hebrews 7:23-25 NASB)

So whatever that means in regard to the blood of Christ, that's what I do.

 

[ezrider]

What would happen to your faith if you could not read your Bible for several years?

My faith would shrink.

Your faith and belief in the Bible would shrink, and I know what that faith means, but it was not until the Lord closed the words of the scripture to me for many years did I come to know the word of God within me, and only then did I begin to learn Faith. Not just my belief in the written words of the Bible, but to know the Spirit of Christ living within me. The Spirit of Christ is my Faith and Hope, not the words of a book. I no longer use the scripture to judge or measure the Word of God, but rather by His Spirit, I wait upon the Lord to reveal His understanding of the words written for our exhortation.

I know nothing. My opinions about the matter are worthless. I go with what the Bible says. That is where my faith and confidence come from that Christ is on the altar in heaven for me and is the substance of my forgiveness. If you have any disagreement with me in this matter then you are also in disagreement with what the scriptures teach. Which you are certainly entitled to, but I'm going to stick with the scriptures.

I asked you a simple question about how you account for your daily sins, and yet you could not find your own words to express your faith. Instead you quoted scripture, and when I asked for more, you grew frustrated and quoted more scripture. Now you have stated that you know nothing and your opinions are worthless, yet you seem to offer a lot of opinion. You say you do what the scripture teaches, but then you can't seem to tell me in your own words what that actually means to you. The scripture tells you to offer a sacrifice yearly for you sins and to stone the adulterer to death. Do you do what the scripture teaches you to do?

So whatever that means in regard to the blood of Christ, that's what I do.

"So whatever that means." Is that your defense of the hope that lies within you, whatever that means? I know you can quote the scripture that talks about using the Blood of Christ as a "common thing." So whatever that means, is that what you do, use the blood as if it is a common thing?

 

[ezrider]

I do not treat the Blood of Christ as a common thing that I can cast my daily sins upon. The offering of His Blood was a one time offering for all the sins of the flesh for all time; and as the scripture says, there remains no more sacrifice for sin. Now the Lord did not come that I might be made perfect without any sin, but rather that I might serve Him in Spirit with a clean consciousness from my sins in the flesh. So with this clean conscious I am not riddled with the guilt and condemnation of one who clings to death, but rather as one who is free to glory in the righteousness of the living Christ by His Faith and through His Grace.

I should not think to cast my daily transgressions before the Blood of Christ's sacrifice. If I were to ask Christ to forgive me of my sins by cleansing me of my unrighteousness in His Blood, then to me it would be like saying that I don't trust that these sins were already covered in his blood or that they have already been forgiven me, or I would not ask them to be covered in his blood and forgiven me. So because I believe in his sacrifice, being once for all time, then I can accept his forgiveness once for all time, and learn to walk humbly in his Grace by Faith.

The sins of the flesh are dead works, and if I should bring these dead works before the Lord and cast my daily transgressions upon the cross and upon his blood, then would I not be doing what Paul describes in the book of Hebrews by crucifying Christ to myself again, and in doing so put him to open shame (Heb 6:4-6). I should not want to be found putting the Lord to open shame. I shall trust to His Grace.

Psalms 25:8-10
Good and upright is the Lord:
therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
The meek will he guide in judgment:
and the meek will he teach his way.
All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth
unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.

 

[ezrider]

Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Would you characterize the unforgivable sin, blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, as a sin against the flesh? Or a sin against the Spirit?

The Sin of Adam's Transgression: Before Adam disobeyed and partook of the tree of knowledge, Adam had absolutely no knowledge of sin and nakedness. So the sin of Adam's transgression, was it a sin against the flesh? Or a sin against the Spirit?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...it was not until the Lord closed the words of the scripture to me for many years did I come to know the word of God within me, and only then did I begin to learn Faith. Not just my belief in the written words of the Bible, but to know the Spirit of Christ living within me.

How did these passages not get included in the Spirit's revelation of the written words of the Bible to you?

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins
(1 John 1:9 NASB, 1 John 2:1-2 NASB)

23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed*in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing,
24 but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.
25 Therefore He is able also to save forever*those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them."
(Hebrews 7:23-25 NASB)

John tells the children of the faith when they sin to confess their sins to be cleansed of all unrighteousness, Jesus himself being the propitiation of those sins, and he himself being the Advocate with the Father in this matter of sin. How did the Spirit of God not reveal this to you in your personal experience of gaining revealed truth?

And the author of Hebrews says that Jesus' ministry of intercession continues, not come to an end as you insist. Why didn't the Spirit reveal these plain words to you in your personal experience with Him of learning the scriptures while away from the scriptures?

The Spirit of Christ is my Faith and Hope, not the words of a book. I no longer use the scripture to judge or measure the Word of God, but rather by His Spirit, I wait upon the Lord to reveal His understanding of the words written for our exhortation.

But by leaving out the scriptures above you are guilty of not dividing the word of God rightly. Surely even a personal and spiritual interpretation of the scriptures would not consist of interpretations that contradict the whole. Right?

I asked you a simple question about how you account for your daily sins, and yet you could not find your own words to express your faith. Instead you quoted scripture...

It's a funny thing in these forums. If you don't quote scripture to defend a belief you get chastised for not using scripture. If you do use scripture you get chastised for not thinking for yourself.

...and when I asked for more, you grew frustrated and quoted more scripture.

There is no frustration in the plain words of scripture. If there is any frustration here it is in your insistence on ignoring the passages of scripture that have been shared in this thread that reveal your personal interpretation of truth and scripture to be false.

Now you have stated that you know nothing and your opinions are worthless, yet you seem to offer a lot of opinion.

I have a SCRIPTURALLY based opinion on the matter, not a personal one. I did not say my scriptural opinions are worthless. Shame on you.

You say you do what the scripture teaches, but then you can't seem to tell me in your own words what that actually means to you.

What are you talking about? I have explained myself at length in this thread.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The scripture tells you to offer a sacrifice yearly for you sins and to stone the adulterer to death. Do you do what the scripture teaches you to do?

I don't. God did/does the doing of those things. By my faith in his 'doing', that 'doing' is applied to my account. And so it is in that sense that I 'do' those things. I only 'do' them in the sense that it is through the new way of Christ, and faith in him, that they are done in regard to me.

"So whatever that means." Is that your defense of the hope that lies within you, whatever that means?

Exactly what the passages I shared say is my defense. That is 'whatever the passage says' means.

I know you can quote the scripture that talks about using the Blood of Christ as a "common thing." So whatever that means, is that what you do, use the blood as if it is a common thing?

USING the blood of Christ as a common thing.....no, I'm not aware of any scripture that says that. You apparently have added that interpretation to the words of the Bible. What it talks about is 'regarding' the blood of Christ as a common thing by trampling it under and insulting it by rejecting it. And, as a result of rejecting it, being left with no sacrifice for sin and, thus, subject to the coming wrath of God:

"26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth (about Christ), there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins (because Christ is the only sacrifice available),
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES (because you have no sacrifice available to escape Judgment).
28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant (regarded it as unfit to be put on the altar for the forgiveness of sin) by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."
(Hebrews 10: NASB capitals in original, parentheses mine)

 

[ezrider]

Jethro Bodine, it seem like you spent an awful lot of time trying to pick apart everything I said in response to your comments, and then you infer all of those comments and questions into some sort of belief that you then can try and shred according to your doctrine. But when I with my own word explain to you my Faith and Grace in the Lord, you either ignore it or just can't seem to find the words to actually comment on it. You ignore what I tell you about my Faith and you have no answer for it; Instead you choose to continue to make it about your doctrine and my responses to you. This is what I hold to be true.

I do not treat the Blood of Christ as a common thing that I can cast my daily sins upon. The offering of His Blood was a one time offering for all the sins of the flesh for all time; and as the scripture says, there remains no more sacrifice for sin. Now the Lord did not come that I might be made perfect without any sin, but rather that I might serve Him in Spirit with a clean consciousness from my sins in the flesh. So with this clean conscious I am not riddled with the guilt and condemnation of one who clings to death, but rather as one who is free to glory in the righteousness of the living Christ by His Faith and through His Grace.

I should not think to cast my daily transgressions before the Blood of Christ's sacrifice. If I were to ask Christ to forgive me of my sins by cleansing me of my unrighteousness in His Blood, then to me it would be like saying that I don't trust that these sins were already covered in his blood or that they have already been forgiven me, or I would not ask them to be covered in his blood and forgiven me. So because I believe in his sacrifice, being once for all time, then I can accept his forgiveness once for all time, and learn to walk humbly in his Grace by Faith.

The sins of the flesh are dead works, and if I should bring these dead works before the Lord and cast my daily transgressions upon the cross and upon his blood, then would I not be doing what Paul describes in the book of Hebrews by crucifying Christ to myself again, and in doing so put him to open shame (Heb 6:4-6). I should not want to be found putting the Lord to open shame. I shall trust to His Grace.

Psalms 25:8-10
Good and upright is the Lord:
therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
The meek will he guide in judgment:
and the meek will he teach his way.
All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth
unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.

 

[ezrider]

I go with what the Bible says. That is where my faith and confidence come from

Galatians 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Hebrews 6:1-2 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Tell me Jethro Bodine, if you believe and trust in your Bible for all of your answers and that it alone shall provide you with all of the answers you shall need, then tell me: If everything that you need can be found in the Bible, then what did the seven Thunders utter in the book of Revelation?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro Bodine, it seem like you spent an awful lot of time trying to pick apart everything I said in response to your comments, and then you infer all of those comments and questions into some sort of belief that you then can try and shred according to your doctrine. But when I with my own word explain to you my Faith and Grace in the Lord, you either ignore it or just can't seem to find the words to actually comment on it. You ignore what I tell you about my Faith and you have no answer for it; Instead you choose to continue to make it about your doctrine and my responses to you. This is what I hold to be true.

Hey, I'm not done commenting on your posts.

But anyway, it's about the Bible compared to what you say, not about picking apart what you say for the sake of doing that. You teach people to lay the Bible aside in favor of personal enlightenment. You do that in this forum. When you do that and what you say is contrary to the scriptures, you are guilty of blasphemy of the Spirit. A person is in effect calling him a lying evil spirit, if they can 'hear' the Spirit of God speaking the real truth in the scriptures but choose to ignore Him anyway: .

"the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar,because he has not believed in the testimony that God (the Holy Spirit--see context) has given concerning His Son." (1 John 5:10 NASB)

The danger isn't so much in your thoughts and feelings and opinions about the exact nature of the ministry of Christ in heaven. The danger is teaching people that they are actually sinning and will be lost if they make a continued plea to God through the continuing ministry of Christ in heaven.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Galatians 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Faith in the blood of Christ to forgive sins is the very justification Paul is talking about, and which supplants the illustrations of the law that only pointed to Christ as the sacrifice for sin God desires. How is faith in Christ still being under the schoolmaster of the law? Honestly, I think you need to go back to Christianity 101.

Tell me Jethro Bodine, if you believe and trust in your Bible for all of your answers and that it alone shall provide you with all of the answers you shall need, then tell me: If everything that you need can be found in the Bible, then what did the seven Thunders utter in the book of Revelation?

You tell me why I need to know that then I'll answer your question. Deal?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The danger isn't so much in your thoughts and feelings and opinions about the exact nature of the ministry of Christ in heaven. The danger is teaching people that they are actually sinning and will be lost if they make a continued plea to God through the continuing ministry of Christ in heaven.

Paul said Hymenaeus was blaspheming for teaching, among other things(?), that the resurrection had already occurred, essentially telling people they were lost (1 Timothy 1:19-20 NASB, 2 Timothy 2:17-18 NASB). Like him, you also blaspheme in that you tell people they are lost and can not be forgiven if they continue to appeal to the ongoing ministry of Jesus in heaven. .

 

[ezrider]

Tell me Jethro Bodine, if you believe and trust in your Bible for all of your answers and that it alone shall provide you with all of the answers you shall need, then tell me: If everything that you need can be found in the Bible, then what did the seven Thunders utter in the book of Revelation?

You tell me why I need to know that then I'll answer your question. Deal?

Many people believe as was written in by the prophet Daniel in the last days the books would be opened and knowledge would increase. Unlike the book of Daniel whose vision was sealed, and at the end it shall speak, the book of Revelation was not sealed, for the time was at hand. So if the words of the book were not sealed, and because you place such an importance on the words found in the Bible, what the seven Thunders uttered is surely significant. I just want to know if you can tell me what the seven thunders said?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Many people believe as was written in by the prophet Daniel in the last days the books would be opened and knowledge would increase. Unlike the book of Daniel whose vision was sealed, and at the end it shall speak, the book of Revelation was not sealed, for the time was at hand. So if the words of the book were not sealed, and because you place such an importance on the words found in the Bible, what the seven Thunders uttered is surely significant. I just want to know if you can tell me what the seven thunders said?

So, do I understand correctly that you are adjusting what you said and taking the 'all of the answers you shall need' part of your criticism of Bible revelation away and changing it to just challenging the belief that the scriptures alone are the source of all revelation?

 

[ezrider]

But anyway, it's about the Bible compared to what you say, not about picking apart what you say for the sake of doing that. You teach people to lay the Bible aside in favor of personal enlightenment. You do that in this forum. When you do that and what you say is contrary to the scriptures, you are guilty of blasphemy of the Spirit.

I will assume Jethro Bodine that you believe in the doctrine of the trinity. I will also assume that you believe the Spirit of God dwells with you and teaches you from his word. So if you believe His Spirit is with you, and if you profess the trinity doctrine to be true, then why do you look for the coming of another?

Isaiah 30:1
Woe to the rebellious children, saith the Lord,
that take counsel, but not of me;
and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit,
that they may add sin to sin.

 

[ezrider]

So, do I understand correctly that you are adjusting what you said and taking the 'all of the answers you shall need' part of your criticism of Bible revelation away and changing it to just challenging the belief that the scriptures alone are the source of all revelation?

I'll answer this when you tell me about the seven thunders. Deal?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'll answer this when you tell me about the seven thunders. Deal?

I'm pretty sure you are the one making the boast of superior, extra-Biblical revelation. Shouldn't you be telling me what they are? My only boast is what the scriptures say, and they say that information has been sealed (Revelation 10:4 NASB). Obviously to serve some purpose of God's that I can trust him with. That's called 'having faith'.