The Passover of God

[Jethro Bodine]

What would happen to your faith if you could not read your Bible for several years?

My faith would shrink.

What would you believe about God then? Do you think that you would be able to speak clearer about the scriptures than the day you last read them after all those years had past?

No.
Being a Christian for almost 30 years I know from my own experience that I forget things I've learned in the Bible when I slack off on reading it.

What would you do without your Bible? Without a Bible, do you think you can still hear the word of God?

I wouldn't hear it as completely. By design, God has ordained that we learn through teachers. Moses, Paul, Peter, and everyone else who has contributed to the Bible texts are teachers given to us by God to give God's people knowledge and understanding.

Discernment comes straight from God himself (1 John 2:26-27 NASB). Complete knowledge (as much as is available to us in this age) is gained through a corporate knowing and sharing of the Word of God (Ephesians 4:11-13 NASB).

Living by faith does not mean listening to the voice of God in lieu of written words. It's not sinful to read the words of the Bible, learn from them, and then be changed by them. But so many grace people think it's a sin to try to live for God by reading written words as if that would living by the law and not by faith. Hardly true. That is a common misunderstanding of law vs. grace.

You're good at asking questions, but really lousy at answering them. You don't have to, of course, but do you want to answer my questions in post 139? They confront your doctrine directly.

 

[JLB]

The New Covenant did not abolish the requirement for a Passover Sacrifice. That requirement gets fulfilled in the new way of Christ, and faith in him in this New Covenant.

God Himself, not the New Covenant abolished the law and ordinance for the sacrifice of sin.

But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,
Hebrews 10:12

This is simply no longer any requirement for the sacrifice for sin.

Jesus' one sacrifice fulfilled the requirement forever.

having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:15


The passover has been fulfilled by the sacrifice of Christ.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Biblically, I think it's easy to see, ezrider , that God did not remove the Passover requirement for the people of God. The people of God fulfill it in the new way of Christ, and apply it by faith in him. What we no longer do concerning Mt. Sinai is HOW we uphold and keep the law of Passover. No longer do we 'keep' it in the old literal way which only represented the reality, but rather in the reality itself, in heaven. And we do that through the power of faith and the Holy Spirit, who writes the words of God directly on tablets of tender, flesh hearts, not on tablets of hardened stone (Ezekiel 36:26 NASB).

"26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh." (Ezekiel 36:26 NASB)

"...we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6 NASB)

 

[JLB]

The people of God fulfill it in the new way of Christ, and apply it by faith in him.

Jesus fulfilled the Passover.

The OT Passover was a shadow of Christ and His work on the cross as the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.

He and He alone fulfilled the Passover.

He and He alone is the Lamb who takes away sin.

This is just one of many scriptures that were fulfilled by Christ.

21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."
22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying:
23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us."
Matthew 1:21-23


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I satisfy the requirement for a Passover sacrifice when I offer the sacrifice of Christ up to God via my faith in that sacrifice.

 

[ezrider]

Nobody can make grace a license to indulge sin with impunity. Mankind only thinks grace is a license to sin now that we're under grace. That's why we're told not to do that--grace is not a license to sin. You condemn yourself when you say that grace makes it so we can sin freely and it doesn't matter because of grace.

Throughout this thread, you have tried to characterize the grace for which I speak as some license to sin, and with comments to the contrary, you would not give any consideration to think it differently. But I should point out that earlier in this thread I asked if you had to choose between his grace or his blood, which would it be? You could not choose because you saw them as being equal, or as being one and the same (sorry if I haven't accurately quoted you, just trying to paraphrase).

With that being the case, then can you explain to me why you think the message of Grace promotes a license to sin, but the message of his Blood does not promote the same license?

 

[JLB]

I satisfy the requirement for a Passover sacrifice when I offer the sacrifice of Christ up to God via my faith in that sacrifice.

I would like to see that in the law of Moses, where they had a choice to change what God mandated in the law, and do something by faith instead of what the law stated.

You seem to be confusing the law of Moses with the New Covenant.

The Passover was fulfilled by Christ.

It doesn't need to be fulfilled again and again by Christians.

We are told to take the cup of communion and the bread, and do that in remembrance of Him.

That's not the Passover.

The Passover was fulfilled by Christ.

the people of God fulfill it in the new way of Christ, and apply it by faith in him.

The people of God don't, nor can they fulfill the Passover.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Throughout this thread, you have tried to characterize the grace for which I speak as some license to sin, and with comments to the contrary, you would not give any consideration to think it differently. But I should point out that earlier in this thread I asked if you had to choose between his grace or his blood, which would it be? You could not choose because you saw them as being equal, or as being one and the same (sorry if I haven't accurately quoted you, just trying to paraphrase).

With that being the case, then can you explain to me why you think the message of Grace promotes a license to sin, but the message of his Blood does not promote the same license?

When someone says sin doesn't matter because we are under grace, that is making God's grace (the forgiveness of sins) a license to sin--which it is not.

Sin does matter after we are saved...

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."
(Hebrews 10:26-30 NASB)

Grace is not a license to sin with impunity. Grace was given to us so we can learn to NOT sin:

"11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age" (Titus 2:11-12 NASB)

Grace was not given so we can sin carelessly and get away with it because what we do doesn't matter as the hyper grace doctrines teach.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You seem to be confusing the law of Moses with the New Covenant.

No, you simply do not have the capacity to understand what I'm saying. If you did you would not be responding to my posts the way you do.

 

[ezrider]

When someone says sin doesn't matter because we are under grace, that is making God's grace (the forgiveness of sins) a license to sin--which it is not.

Sin does matter after we are saved...

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."
(Hebrews 10:26-30 NASB)

Grace is not a license to sin with impunity. Grace was given to us so we can learn to NOT sin:

"11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age" (Titus 2:11-12 NASB)

Grace was not given so we can sin carelessly and get away with it because what we do doesn't matter as the hyper grace doctrines teach.

You completely missed the point. So I guess I'll just ask then?

Why do you use the Blood of Christ's sacrifice as a license to sin?
Why do you use the Blood of Christ as a covering that you might hide from your sins?

 

[JLB]

No, you simply do not have the capacity to understand what I'm saying. If you did you would not be responding to my posts the way you do.

I understand what you are saying, you think that we, the people of God fulfill the Passover, of the Old Testament each year by "faith in Christ".

I disagree. It's that simple.

Jesus Christ died on the cross once and for all. He alone fulfilled the Passover.

We are not required to fulfill something only He was meant to.

We can not fulfill something only He was meant to.

You are the one who doesn't seem to understand this truth.

He is the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.


The reason the children of Israel kept the Passover, year after year, was because the blood of animals can not take away sin, only atone for sin.

The blood of Jesus, continually cleanses us of all unrightesness, as we walk with Him in the light, everyday, not just on special days.

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why do you use the Blood of Christ's sacrifice as a license to sin?
Why do you use the Blood of Christ as a covering that you might hide from your sins?

You must have me confused with another poster. I do not do either of these things. I do not use the blood of Christ as an excuse to freely sin, and I do not use the blood of Christ to hide from my sins.

Grace was given to rescue me from the bondage of sin, and to wipe away my sins, not ignore them. I'm pretty sure it is your doctrine that is guilty of doing the two things you point out here. Think about it.

"11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age" (Titus 2:11-12 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I understand what you are saying, you think that we, the people of God fulfill the Passover, of the Old Testament each year by "faith in Christ".

I disagree. It's that simple.

Jesus Christ died on the cross once and for all. He alone fulfilled the Passover.

We are not required to fulfill something only He was meant to.

We can not fulfill something only He was meant to.

You are the one who doesn't seem to understand this truth.

He is the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.


The reason the children of Israel kept the Passover, year after year, was because the blood of animals can not take away sin, only atone for sin.

The blood of Jesus, continually cleanses us of all unrightesness, as we walk with Him in the light, everyday, not just on special days.

JLB

You continue to prove that you do not understand anything I say. It's prolly better that you just let it go so you don't get the mods mad at you.

 

[ezrider]

You must have me confused with another poster. I do not do either of these things. I do not use the blood of Christ as an excuse to freely sin, and I do not use the blood of Christ to hide from my sins.

Grace was given to rescue me from the bondage of sin, and to wipe away my sins, not ignore them. I'm pretty sure it is your doctrine that is guilty of doing the two things you point out here. Think about it.

"11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age" (Titus 2:11-12 NASB)

The Grace of God gives no more a license to sin than does the Blood of Christ. That is the point you fail to see. Anyone, and I mean anyone can try and justify their sins under Grace just as easily as they can by trying to justify sin by the Blood of Christ.

Neither the Blood or Grace gives anyone a license sin, but there is a difference. Blood is an offing that comes by LAW, and the Law is the tool, the knowledge of good and evil, that the serpent has been given to tempt us with. But Grace is not of the LAW, and where there is no Law, there is no temptation.

I asked you a question earlier in this thread that was never answered, and so I will ask it of you one more time:

Are you a racist?
Have you ever committed murder?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Grace of God gives no more a license to sin than does the Blood of Christ. That is the point you fail to see. Anyone, and I mean anyone can try and justify their sins under Grace just as easily as they can by trying to justify sin by the Blood of Christ.

Neither the Blood or Grace gives anyone a license sin, but there is a difference. Blood is an offing that comes by LAW, and the Law is the tool, the knowledge of good and evil, that the serpent has been given to tempt us with. But Grace is not of the LAW, and where there is no Law, there is no temptation.

Your doctrine has been shown to be false. But it's certainly your right and privilege to not accept what we have shown you here.

I asked you a question earlier in this thread that was never answered, and so I will ask it of you one more time:

Are you a racist?
Have you ever committed murder?

Yes to both.

 

[JLB]

You continue to prove that you do not understand anything I say. It's prolly better that you just let it go so you don't get the mods mad at you.

I understand that you believe we are to fulfill the Passover, which only Jesus Christ can do.

I get that from your statement about the Passover.

The people of God fulfill it in the new way of Christ, and apply it by faith in him.

Since He has fulfilled the Passover, and since He alone is the Lamb of God that does in fact fulfill the Passover, what then would be the point in someone else, saying that they fulfill the Passover, if it has already been fulfilled.

This is the leaven in your doctrine, you are under the impression that the law of Moses is still an active part in the New Covenant, and that it still continues to need to be fulfilled.


JLB

 

[ezrider]

Grace was given to rescue me from the bondage of sin, and to wipe away my sins, not ignore them. I'm pretty sure it is your doctrine that is guilty of doing the two things you point out here. Think about it.

I do not understand your persistence in saying that by Grace I am ignoring my sin. I have never insinuated that, but it has been you all along who has tried to make the Grace doctrine into some licenses to sin. I have told you in the course of his thread that by the Grace of God I am able to stand in the light, so that I might better understand the sin in me. I have even expressed to you that the only thing I have found worthy of myself to offer up before the Lord is my sin so that he might instruct me in His Righteousness; to which you responded that I was spiritually offering what you referred to as a offering according to the law.

So if by Grace I have offered spiritual offerings according to your law, and if by His Grace I stand in His Light that I might look upon my sins and the sins of others without condemnation, so that I might glory in His Righteousness; then by what measure do you use to say that I am ignoring sin in this doctrine of Grace?

What shall we say of those who call upon the blood of Christ to cover their sins so that they do not have to look upon them? If they cover their sins, are they truly standing in the Light?

 

[ezrider]

Jethro Bodine, If you would be so kind, so that I have a clearer understanding of what you believe, and not what we think some particular scripture to say; How do you treat your sins for today, or for tomorrow? When your sins throughout the course of a normal day in the world come before the Lord, how do you account for those sins?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How do you treat your sins for today, or for tomorrow? When your sins throughout the course of a normal day in the world come before the Lord, how do you account for those sins?

We've been over this already. I confess my sins which are then wiped away completely, not covered over:

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9 NASB)

The ministry of Jesus is always there in heaven for me to do that for me today, and in the future (that is, as long as I continue to have faith that it is there for me and so rely on it to do that for me):

23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed *in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing,
24 but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.
25 Therefore He is able also to save forever * those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them." (Hebrews 7:23-25 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I do not understand your persistence in saying that by Grace I am ignoring my sin.

That's what you're doing when you insist you do not have to, and should not, take your offenses to God for forgiveness. As if the forgiveness of sins through blood sacrifice is an (evil) work of the law.

I have even expressed to you that the only thing I have found worthy of myself to offer up before the Lord is my sin so that he might instruct me in His Righteousness; to which you responded that I was spiritually offering what you referred to as a offering according to the law.

Which should have raised the hair on your neck because that means even you--yes, you-- are, as you define it, standing in the shadow of Mt. Sinai and doing that which is forbidden, and even damnable.

So if by Grace I have offered spiritual offerings according to your law, and if by His Grace I stand in His Light that I might look upon my sins and the sins of others without condemnation, so that I might glory in His Righteousness; then by what measure do you use to say that I am ignoring sin in this doctrine of Grace?

You ignore sin by not having your unrighteousness cleansed away through confession of that unrighteousness, as John instructed us to do.

What shall we say of those who call upon the blood of Christ to cover their sins so that they do not have to look upon them? If they cover their sins, are they truly standing in the Light?

They are wiped away in Christ, not simply covered over.