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Is the world really searching for truth?

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gerbilgirl, precious daughter of our Father and our precious sister.

I mentioned Jacob above and the following is from Genesis.

Genesis 32:24-29
Then Jacob was left alone; and a Man wrestled with him until the breaking of day. Now when He saw that He did not prevail against him, He touched the socket of his hip; and the socket of Jacob's hip was out of joint as He wrestled with him. And He said, “Let Me go, for the day breaks.”
But he said, “I will not let You go unless You bless me!”
So He said to him, “What is your name?”
He said, “Jacob.”
And He said, “Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel; for you have struggled with God and with men, and have prevailed.”
Then Jacob asked, saying, “Tell me Your name, I pray.”
And He said, “Why is it that you ask about My name?” And He blessed him there.

What is interesting is v30

Genesis 32:30
Jacob named the place Peniel (which means “face of God”), for he said, “I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been spared.”

Notice how Jacob admits that he saw God face to face and acknowledged that at any point in time God could have taken him out, yet he acknowledges that God spared him.

So there could be two equations here. One being that God went easy on Jacob and the other being that God actually gave him the strength to wrestle with him. God sets limits and will test us to those limits but he will never take us beyond those limits. He will give us the strength. I don't think he minds us wrestling with him, questioning him and his ways and what's going on in our life. When we do that he can deal with us, when we don't he can't.

You posted in prayers please. I won't quote it here but what I observed from your post is that you are struggling with something that you define as sinning, that you don't know how to stop and that you don't want God to hate you, that you don't want us to judge you and really want to stop.

Forgive me if I am wrong but I possibly think you are questioning your faith as a result of you acknowledging your sin, not being released from it, the fearing judgment from God and fellow believers. If we carry such a heavy burden it's no wonder we will question our faith, is God real, is Jesus who he has said he is.

Truth is you have already been judged. When Jesus died on the cross the world and sin was judged and laid on Jesus.

The Holy Spirit came to convict the world of its sin, that sin is unbelief in him.

John 16:8-9
And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment. The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me.

I see from you that you have been convicted of your sin of unbelief and repented of that. Placed your faith in Jesus.
If you hadn't you wouldn't be posting here and asking for prayer.

When we placed our faith in Jesus the Holy Spirit came in and the purpose was as a deposit of our inheritance of everlasting life with God, who promised to remove our sins/lawless deeds as far as the East is from the West.

Furthermore he is our helper, he will help us overcome the flesh and give us hope in doing so. We can try to stop as much as we want and we won't be able to do it, we may be able to do so for a while but in doing so really struggle. This can make us question our faith.

My quick testimony. I struggled with a severe gambling problem for 30 odd years, I questioned whether God was real and Jesus who he says he is. I TRIED TO STOP TO PLEASE GOD.

When I realised that I was trying to please God who was already pleased with me, that because of my faith in Jesus but because I was trying to stop gambling on my own to please him then my focus was wrong.

Eventually I had to hold my hands up, say "I can't do it, I need you so much help me to give my burden up to you and give me your burden which is light"

When I realised that God loves me warts and all because of my faith in Jesus I was then able to be honest and honour God by asking for help.

That was 5 years ago and I've not gambled since, not even had an urge to.

I hope this helps.

I just want you to know the following.

God loves you as much as he loves Jesus.
He will never leave you or forsake you.
You are the apple of his eye.
Your sin has been judged.
He remembers your sins no more.
You have been given the Holy Spirit as a deposit of your inheritance, to help you and remind you of the 5 lines above.

Heavenly Father may our sister know the truth. The truth that sets us free. I pray her focus will be on you and not her sins as she sees them. I thank you for a conscious that knows right from wrong and we pray in the name of Jesus for freedom in her life. Reveal any lies and deception and replace it with truth.
Thank you, I really appreciate it.
 
That depends on what one determines the truth to be, both spiritually and secularly.
The opposite of the truth is lies, yet someone who been been lied to can accept it as the truth about them.

Wrg,

Could this be a too restrictive a definition of truth? Is it true that the walls in my office are cream coloured? I suggest that a more comprehensive definition of truth is that which conforms with reality. Any advances on that definition?

Oz
 
Wrg,

Could this be a too restrictive a definition of truth? Is it true that the walls in my office are cream coloured? I suggest that a more comprehensive definition of truth is that which conforms with reality. Any advances on that definition?

Oz
Hi Oz

I wasn't looking to go into a comprehensive definition of truth. One persons truth is another persons lie. To me the truth is that Jesus is the son of God who died and rose again. Yet to someone else that is a lie.

Recently on face book there was a picture of a dress and the question was is it black/blue or white/gold.
I think 67% said black/blue and 33% white/gold. Both sides would be convinced that the truth it the dress is black/blue or white/gold.

What I was trying to say is that one persons truth can be or is determined by the world around them, their perception of the world/themselves/their paradigms and so on.

If you wish to expand please do so. I would be interested to see what you say.
 
The world is each to its own and all are trying to build babylon as the ideal picture of a pure perfect world in there own world views. All i know is no matter how high babylon tries to build, it fails, and will always be humbled by the Most High. The Kingdom of man fails, and will fail, unless all repent, turn from there ways, and call on the name of the Lord.
 
My own one

Wrg,

So your version of truth is: 'One persons truth is another persons lie'. Let's tease out a couple applications of this.
  1. Bill just robbed a convenience store by taking a machete, jumping over the counter, and demanding cash from the till - all of the cash. Bill's truth is that it is legitimate and truth for him to rob stores. For me, he has broken God's law by being a thief. Robbing people is truth for Bill; robbing people is breaking God's truth for me. Do you want to live in a world where it is OK for the many Bills out there to steal all they want because that is their truth?
  2. John considers it is his truth to rape children as a paedophile. He gets a great deal of truthful pleasure out of it. My truth is that Scripture says sexual immorality is wrong and his paedophilia should be punished. Your view of truth would lead to a nation in chaos where anyone could do anything because 'it is their truth'. There would be no laws to protect against home invasion, murder, lying, etc.
'That's true for you, but not true for me' (Paul Copan) is called relativism. That is what you are advocating and it is contrary to the 10 Commandments (Ex 20 ESV) and the Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5-7 ESV). It is contrary to God's law for a just society.

You say it's your own philosophy. It's not. It has been around a long time and brings disaster to personal, family, and national life. It makes nothing wrong.

Oz
 
Wrg,

So your version of truth is: 'One persons truth is another persons lie'. Let's tease out a couple applications of this.
  1. Bill just robbed a convenience store by taking a machete, jumping over the counter, and demanding cash from the till - all of the cash. Bill's truth is that it is legitimate and truth for him to rob stores. For me, he has broken God's law by being a thief. Robbing people is truth for Bill; robbing people is breaking God's truth for me. Do you want to live in a world where it is OK for the many Bills out there to steal all they want because that is their truth?
  2. John considers it is his truth to rape children as a paedophile. He gets a great deal of truthful pleasure out of it. My truth is that Scripture says sexual immorality is wrong and his paedophilia should be punished. Your view of truth would lead to a nation in chaos where anyone could do anything because 'it is their truth'. There would be no laws to protect against home invasion, murder, lying, etc.
'That's true for you, but not true for me' (Paul Copan) is called relativism. That is what you are advocating and it is contrary to the 10 Commandments (Ex 20 ESV) and the Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5-7 ESV). It is contrary to God's law for a just society.

You say it's your own philosophy. It's not. It has been around a long time and brings disaster to personal, family, and national life. It makes nothing wrong.

Oz
You over analyse me. You have taken it to the extreme and you have seemed to have judged me and accused me of agreeing with the extreme samples you have given. I have a understating of relativism, maybe not as much as you.

I have never said that. You mention paedophilia. As a person who who suffered at the hands of such a person, I would never ever ever say that is the truth to them. It's immoral and should be punished.

Why on earth do you seem to critique what people say and try to trample over them with your views?
Quite frankly I feel you have disengeunised me.

What I was trying to convey is that what I consider truth for me may be a lie to others. And I never ever said that a lie is something that is not against the word of God and his laws.

Quite frankly as a result of my life's experiences I felt it was my fault, I was dirty and unlovable. Is that the truth? To me it was. What is the truth please tell me?
 
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You over analyse me. You have taken it to the extreme and you have seemed to have judged me and accused me of agreeing with the extreme samples you have given. I have a understating of relativism, maybe not as much as you.

I have never said that. You mention paedophilia. As a person who who suffered at the hands of such a person, I would never ever ever say that is the truth to them. It's immoral and should be punished.

Why on earth do you seem to critique what people say and try to trample over them with your views?
Quite frankly I feel you have disengeunised me.

What I was trying to convey is that what I consider truth for me may be a lie to others. And I never ever said that a lie is something that is not against the word of God and his laws.

Quite frankly as a result of my life's experiences I felt it was my fault, I was dirty and unlovable. Is that the truth? To me it was. What is the truth please tell me?

Wrg,

The two examples I gave of your worldview in action were to push you to the logical conclusions of your worldview of relativism. There is no way you could object to the perpetrators of the 2 examples I gave if your relativism were practised in society.

You say, 'What I was trying to convey is that what I consider truth for me may be a lie to others'. That's exactly what I was dealing with and the logical conclusions of such a philosophy. If we don't have absolute values against murder, theft, lying, rape, etc, then chaos will come to your nation and mine. But it will come closer to home - into our personal lives, families and cities.

What makes burglary wrong in all countries and NOT wrong for one person and right for me?

Oz
 
There is no way you could object to the perpetrators of the 2 examples I gave if your relativism were practised in society.
Wrg,

The two examples I gave of your worldview in action were to push you to the logical conclusions of your worldview of relativism. There is no way you could object to the perpetrators of the 2 examples I gave if your relativism were practised in society.

Really? You have no idea. I sure could object and would. Truth is you have just assumed that I'm a person who would not because of your judgement.

I don't practise relativism as you accuse me off. And I certainly don't bring it home to my family.

Yet you haven't answered my question. Was my lie about me as a result of my life experiences a lie or truth?

I'm talking about life's experiences that affect people that they think is truth but yet may be a lie
 

What are you doing in giving two back quotes to me, but without narrative? That means nothing.
 
Oz,

This is what I am hearing you say.

Because of my comment then every extreme eaxample you have given, then I see that as truth for the extreme, not only that but it's something I endorse.

If so that is so far from the truth.
 
Oz,

This is what I am hearing you say.

Because of my comment then every extreme eaxample you have given, then I see that as truth for the extreme, not only that but it's something I endorse.

If so that is so far from the truth.

Wrg,

I'm not saying it is something you endorse personally, but with your relativistic worldview of what's true for you may be a lie for me, there is no way you could stop those extreme examples (logical conclusions) from happening.

Why? Relativism does not uphold God's absolutes. Is something is true for you but not true for me, that is relativism in action. It is contrary to Scripture.

Oz
 
All Christians accept that there is Truth. If we didn't, we wouldn't be Christians. Part of being a Christian is accepting that Jesus is the only way to the father and His word is Truth.

Beyond that...in the world, people come up with their own truths. Secular "Truth" seems to be a result more of consensus than any absolute standard.
 
Wrg,

I'm not saying it is something you endorse personally, but with your relativistic worldview of what's true for you may be a lie for me, there is no way you could stop those extreme examples (logical conclusions) from happening.

Why? Relativism does not uphold God's absolutes. Is something is true for you but not true for me, that is relativism in action. It is contrary to Scripture.

Oz
You are. You are saying I have a relativistic world view. I do not. Those that have that we can't stop. But what we can do is realise that people have such views and then tell them the truth.
 
All Christians accept that there is Truth. If we didn't, we wouldn't be Christians. Part of being a Christian is accepting that Jesus is the only way to the father and His word is Truth.

Beyond that...in the world, people come up with their own truths. Secular "Truth" seems to be a result more of consensus than any absolute standard.
I think that's what I'm trying to say. The truth is Jesus, we as believers know that. Those who don't do not know that.
That is because they are blinded and lied to. Their blindness and lie is their truth.
 
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