The Good News/The Bad News

[PeterJens]

Good news - love language

How much interaction do we need to connect, with each other and with God?
I know too many who are searching for something that the other cannot deliver or relate to, because part of it is to shut them out. One lady on a forum summarised their relationship with God as secure and they would never trust anyone else, ie. let anyone else near them.

Like a possessive child, they found their safety, and dare anyone else come near. This is the opposite of the good news and freedom, rather it is justifying their own hurts safe in privacy, and limiting the power of love and the cross to this intimacy. The lie is they are free, rather than a prison to hurt and fear, not overcoming and growing in openness but shrinking further into themselves and distrust.

I have learnt the opposite, that I need to share my need of encouragement and joy, to hear others rejoicing in Christ and knowing the grace He gives us all despite the junk thrown, because in His we overcome, the giver of eternal support and love. Yes I fail in so many ways, but it is through knowing Jesus and His ways in my heart I have become an overcomer.

So valuing each other matters, seeing words as insights rather than attacks, as views of our King and His glorious gifts that never stop. Sometimes our enemies are the ones who bring the greatest truths about our biggest needs and failures, which we need to listen to, and which our enemies have no idea they are helping us with.

God bless you

 

[OzSpen]

It's not baffling to me Oz.
We also speak like this today:
But a woman will be preserved through childbirth, If they continue in faith......

It's like saying:
But a man can wear shorts in Bermuda, if they also wear long white socks....

wondering,

That is not in accord with Aussie English grammar. We would say, (1) A man (singular) can wear shorts in Bermuda if he (singular) also wears long socks. Or, (2) Men (plural) can wear shorts in Bermuda if they (plural) also wear long socks.

There is a rule in formal, English grammar.

This is how the Townson University (USA) English Department explains it:

Usage - Pronoun-Antecedent Agreement​

A pronoun is a word used to stand for (or take the place of) a noun.
A word can refer to an earlier noun or pronoun in the sentence.
Example:

We do not talk or write this way. Automatically, we replace the noun Lincoln's with a pronoun. More naturally, we say

The pronoun his refers back to President Lincoln. President Lincoln is the ANTECEDENT for the pronoun his.
An antecedent is a word for which a pronoun stands. (ante = "before")
The pronoun must agree with its antecedent in number.
Rule: A singular pronoun must replace a singular noun; a plural pronoun must replace a plural noun.
Thus, the mechanics of the sentence above look like this:

Here are nine pronoun-antecedent agreement rules. These rules are related to the rules found in subject-verb agreement.

However,​

The singular they emerged by the 14th century, about a century after the plural they. It has been commonly employed in everyday English ever since then and has gained currency in official contexts. Singular they has been criticised since the mid-18th century by prescriptive commentators who consider it an error. Its continued use in modern standard English has become more common and formally accepted with the move toward gender-neutral languag. Though some early 21st century style guides described it as colloguial and less appropriate in formal writing, by 2020 most style guides accepted the singular they as a personal pronoun (source).

The NIV translation follows this latter convention. Here are a couple of examples:

• 1 Cor 14:8 (NIV), "13 For this reason the one (singular) who speaks in a tongue should pray that they (plural) may interpret what they say."
• Matt 24:18 (NIV), "Let no one (singular) in the field go back to get their (plural) cloak." In my view of formal grammar, the NASB translates the pronoun-antecedent correctly: "Whoever (Lit. He who - singular) is in the field must not turn back to get his (singular) cloak."

If we want to be pedantic with the Greek-to-English translation of Matt 24:18 (NASB), it should be, "He who is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak." However, how does that apply to women? This is why I support dynamic equivalent translations, i.e. meaning-for-meaning.

Thus, the NLT translates Matt 24:18, "A person out in the field must not return even to get a coat." This conveys the meaning of the text in a reasonable way.

I'm enjoying reading the Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) which was translated for the benefit of the deaf who are most familiar with sign language. The words had to be simplified and the sentences shortened. For this latter verse, it reads: "If they are in the field, they must not go back to get a coat" (Matt 24:18 ERV).

I know translators are struggling to change sexist translations such as "man" or "mankind" to " a person" or "people."

Oz

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering,

That is not in accord with Aussie English grammar. We would say, (1) A man (singular) can wear shorts in Bermuda if he (singular) also wears long socks. Or, (2) Men (plural) can wear shorts in Bermuda if they (plural) also wear long socks.

There is a rule in formal, English grammar.

I didn't say it was correct English...
I only said that we do speak this way.
I don't know anyone, literally, that speaks correct English when speaking to someone informally.
We even transfer how we speak to this forum.

This is how the Townson University (USA) English Department explains it:

The NIV translation follows this latter convention. Here are a couple of examples:

• 1 Cor 14:8 (NIV), "13 For this reason the one (singular) who speaks in a tongue should pray that they (plural) may interpret what they say."
• Matt 24:18 (NIV), "Let no one (singular) in the field go back to get their (plural) cloak." In my view of formal grammar, the NASB translates the pronoun-antecedent correctly: "Whoever (Lit. He who - singular) is in the field must not turn back to get his (singular) cloak."

If we want to be pedantic with the Greek-to-English translation of Matt 24:18 (NASB), it should be, "He who is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak." However, how does that apply to women? This is why I support dynamic equivalent translations, i.e. meaning-for-meaning.

Here is where hermeneutics comes in handy.
We also have certain expressions that may not be understood 2,000 years from now.

Thus, the NLT translates Matt 24:18, "A person out in the field must not return even to get a coat." This conveys the meaning of the text in a reasonable way.

I'm enjoying reading the Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) which was translated for the benefit of the deaf who are most familiar with sign language. The words had to be simplified and the sentences shortened. For this latter verse, it reads: "If they are in the field, they must not go back to get a coat" (Matt 24:18 ERV).

I know translators are struggling to change sexist translations such as "man" or "mankind" to " a person" or "people."

Oz

I agree.

Italian bibles help me a lot with verses that may not be easily understood,
or that are debatable.
(but we debate anyway!). (I don't mean you and me).

 

[OzSpen]

I didn't say it was correct English...
I only said that we do speak this way.
I don't know anyone, literally, that speaks correct English when speaking to someone informally.
We even transfer how we speak to this forum.



Here is where hermeneutics comes in handy.
We also have certain expressions that may not be understood 2,000 years from now.


I agree.

Italian bibles help me a lot with verses that may not be easily understood,
or that are debatable.
(but we debate anyway!). (I don't mean you and me).

wondering,

As I chew on my morning tea of salted peanuts and Kettle brand potato chips along with a can of Pepsi-Max (my dietician would be horrified), I'll briefly reply. Brief because the Aussies are playing India on the final day of the 4th cricket test and I want to see on TV how it finishes. I love cricket as much as the Indians. This final test is being played in one of the large Brisbane sporting stadiums known as The Gabba because it's located in the suburb of Woolloongabba.

I quoted the USA Townson University's English Department as it gave standard English grammar, particularly in dealing with the pronoun-antecedent structure, I meant to show how common English is moving away from that. Since my early years of employment were as a radio announcer and TV newsreader, I had to speak correct grammar - remember I'm a descendant of the British. That carried through to my many years as a Bible college teacher, counsellor (notice the spelling), leader of parenting groups, etc. Also, I've done my share of preaching.

We sure do transfer how we speak to CFnet and many times without the correct punctuation.

Don't you think we ought to get back to the OP: The Good News/The Bad News.

Blessings from Brissy on this test cricket day.
Oz

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering,

As I chew on my morning tea of salted peanuts and Kettle brand potato chips along with a can of Pepsi-Max (my dietician would be horrified), I'll briefly reply. Brief because the Aussies are playing India on the final day of the 4th cricket test and I want to see on TV how it finishes. I love cricket as much as the Indians. This final test is being played in one of the large Brisbane sporting stadiums known as The Gabba because it's located in the suburb of Woolloongabba.

I quoted the USA Townson University's English Department as it gave standard English grammar, particularly in dealing with the pronoun-antecedent structure, I meant to show how common English is moving away from that. Since my early years of employment were as a radio announcer and TV newsreader, I had to speak correct grammar - remember I'm a descendant of the British. That carried through to my many years as a Bible college teacher, counsellor (notice the spelling), leader of parenting groups, etc. Also, I've done my share of preaching.

We sure do transfer how we speak to CFnet and many times without the correct punctuation.

Don't you think we ought to get back to the OP: The Good News/The Bad News.

Blessings from Brissy on this test cricket day.
Oz

That's some breakfast Oz!!!!
I do believe I'M horrified !

Since Gabba is the name of something (the stadium)...
then Woolloon must mean something...
WoolloonGABBA.

Like here we have CAMAIORE
and
LIDO DI CAMAIORE (which Lido di means something specific).

I had to know correct grammar or I would not have been accepted
to the profession I wanted to pursue. Which was something that does
not exist anymore except for the very top executives. I was an executive
secretary and many times had to also correct my "boss". Grammatical
mistakes were not acceptable back then - I think this has changed.
I find many mistakes everywhere and we seem to be oblivious to them.
Something I dislike a lot is a dangling participle...I try to avoid them but
sometimes the sentence sounds just tooooo formal and I give in to incorrect
grammar. This is terrible; it's called the dumbing down of America.

But, we have President Biden now.
He's going to take care of ALL of America's problems.
LOL

Anyway, I think this thread is pretty much DOA. (dead on arrival).

What is left to say?
Calvinists have no good news to offer.
And anyway, why offer good news to "DEAD" persons, which they claim we all are.
(and in a way we are...but not how they mean it).

Enjoy your day.
I hope the Indians win.
Let me know.

 

[jasonc]

smh

 

[Hopeful]

That's some breakfast Oz!!!!
I do believe I'M horrified !

Since Gabba is the name of something (the stadium)...
then Woolloon must mean something...
WoolloonGABBA.

Like here we have CAMAIORE
and
LIDO DI CAMAIORE (which Lido di means something specific).

I had to know correct grammar or I would not have been accepted
to the profession I wanted to pursue. Which was something that does
not exist anymore except for the very top executives. I was an executive
secretary and many times had to also correct my "boss". Grammatical
mistakes were not acceptable back then - I think this has changed.
I find many mistakes everywhere and we seem to be oblivious to them.
Something I dislike a lot is a dangling participle...I try to avoid them but
sometimes the sentence sounds just tooooo formal and I give in to incorrect
grammar. This is terrible; it's called the dumbing down of America.

But, we have President Biden now.
He's going to take care of ALL of America's problems.
LOL

Anyway, I think this thread is pretty much DOA. (dead on arrival).

What is left to say?
Calvinists have no good news to offer.
And anyway, why offer good news to "DEAD" persons, which they claim we all are.
(and in a way we are...but not how they mean it).

Enjoy your day.
I hope the Indians win.
Let me know.

If we have truly turned a corner, would you be kind enough to give me an example of a dangling participle?
And then the correct way to write the same sentence?

 

[GodsGrace]

If we have truly turned a corner, would you be kind enough to give me an example of a dangling participle?
And then the correct way to write the same sentence?

Sure.

Wrong:
I like bread with honey when toasted.

Is the honey toasted? No....

Right:
I like toasted bread with honey.

The word that is describing the noun (toasted) should appear CLOSE to the noun...not at the end of the sentence.

 

[Hopeful]

Sure.

Wrong:
I like bread with honey when toasted.

Is the honey toasted? No....

Right:
I like toasted bread with honey.

The word that is describing the noun (toasted) should appear CLOSE to the noun...not at the end of the sentence.

Thanks.
That kind of stuff just makes me cringe when I hear it.
Or should I have said...I cringe when I hear that kind of stuff.?

 

[OzSpen]

That's some breakfast Oz!!!!
I do believe I'M horrified !

Since Gabba is the name of something (the stadium)...
then Woolloon must mean something...
WoolloonGABBA.

Like here we have CAMAIORE
and
LIDO DI CAMAIORE (which Lido di means something specific).

I had to know correct grammar or I would not have been accepted
to the profession I wanted to pursue. Which was something that does
not exist anymore except for the very top executives. I was an executive
secretary and many times had to also correct my "boss". Grammatical
mistakes were not acceptable back then - I think this has changed.
I find many mistakes everywhere and we seem to be oblivious to them.
Something I dislike a lot is a dangling participle...I try to avoid them but
sometimes the sentence sounds just tooooo formal and I give in to incorrect
grammar. This is terrible; it's called the dumbing down of America.

But, we have President Biden now.
He's going to take care of ALL of America's problems.
LOL

Anyway, I think this thread is pretty much DOA. (dead on arrival).

What is left to say?
Calvinists have no good news to offer.
And anyway, why offer good news to "DEAD" persons, which they claim we all are.
(and in a way we are...but not how they mean it).

Enjoy your day.
I hope the Indians win.
Let me know.

wondering,

There have been various suggested meanings of Woolloongabba but this is the main one:

Woolloongabba, an inner suburb between South Brisbane and Kangaroo Point, is 2 km south-east of central Brisbane. The name is derived from an Aboriginal expression, variously interpreted as referring to whirling waters, a fighting place or a wallaby. The first is the most likely as there was a chain of waterholes that flowed westerly through the present Brisbane Cricket Ground (the 'Gabba') ending at One Mile Swamp at Clarence Corner (Stanley Street/Annerley Road). At flood times the waterholes may have been an inundated watercourse (source).​

It as canned spaghetti in tomato sauce on toast for dinner tonight as I watch Big Bash cricket at one of the major cricket grounds around the country.

Oz

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering,

There have been various suggested meanings of Woolloongabba but this is the main one:

Woolloongabba, an inner suburb between South Brisbane and Kangaroo Point, is 2 km south-east of central Brisbane. The name is derived from an Aboriginal expression, variously interpreted as referring to whirling waters, a fighting place or a wallaby. The first is the most likely as there was a chain of waterholes that flowed westerly through the present Brisbane Cricket Ground (the 'Gabba') ending at One Mile Swamp at Clarence Corner (Stanley Street/Annerley Road). At flood times the waterholes may have been an inundated watercourse (source).​

It as canned spaghetti in tomato sauce on toast for dinner tonight as I watch Big Bash cricket at one of the major cricket grounds around the country.

Oz

Thanks Oz, for the info.
I was pretty sure there had to be a meaning to the name.

As to your eating habits....
If you speak to any REAL Italian....don't mention what you had for dinner last night!!
They'll faint.

 

[OzSpen]

Thanks Oz, for the info.
I was pretty sure there had to be a meaning to the name.

As to your eating habits....
If you speak to any REAL Italian....don't mention what you had for dinner last night!!
They'll faint.

wondering,

These are the kinds of prawns I eat, straight from a trawler and frozen by me. I'm only 20 minutes from the ocean trawlers.



Along with tomato and onion fresh. Of course, I peel the prawns.
Oz

 

[GodsGrace]

Thanks.
That kind of stuff just makes me cringe when I hear it.
Or should I have said...I cringe when I hear that kind of stuff.?

Actually, the second sentence is correct.
But who's checking??

If we spoke correct English, everyone would think we come
from England and studied at Oxford!

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering,

These are the kinds of prawns I eat, straight from a trawler and frozen by me. I'm only 20 minutes from the ocean trawlers.



Along with tomato and onion fresh. Of course, I peel the prawns.
Oz

Wow!
Any Italian would love to have those!!

Sometimes, when I lived in NYC, we'd drive to Brooklyn and get fresh fish
from the boats (small) that were returning from fishing --- they'd sell their
catch. (I can't remember the name of the part of Bklyn).

 

[Doug Brents]

Sure.

Wrong:
I like bread with honey when toasted.

Is the honey toasted? No....

Right:
I like toasted bread with honey.

The word that is describing the noun (toasted) should appear CLOSE to the noun...not at the end of the sentence.

This is correct in English, but in Greek (as I understand it, I am not yet a Greek scholar) the word form determines what it modifies regardless of where it is in the sentence.

In Greek (again, as I understand it), you can say:
The brown cow jumped over the crooked fence.
or you can say
The jumped cow over the fence crooked brown.
And they both mean the same thing because the form of the words "brown" and "crooked" and "jumped" and "fence" all tell us what part they are. The cow being the subject has a different form than the cow would as the object. And so on and so on.

 

[OzSpen]

Thanks Oz, for the info.
I was pretty sure there had to be a meaning to the name.

As to your eating habits....
If you speak to any REAL Italian....don't mention what you had for dinner last night!!
They'll faint.

Sorry wondering,

This is what I really ate on the evening of the day I mentioned:


There is a REAL Italian couple living in my retirement village and I know this kind of spaghetti would not be their deal. However, their kind of spaghetti is not to my taste either. By the way, I enjoyed my spaghetti in tomato sauce (on toast) and only used half of it, so I'll have the remainder tonight. I know I'm not an Italian purist and I don't particularly enjoy pasta either.

But, king prawns Delicious, mouth-watering, delectable, luscious, scrumptious, yummy, finger-licking.



Oz

 

[jasonc]

Brooklyn ,the land from whence the nephilum will return

 

[GodsGrace]

Sorry wondering,

This is what I really ate on the evening of the day I mentioned:

View attachment 10365
There is a REAL Italian couple living in my retirement village and I know this kind of spaghetti would not be their deal. However, their kind of spaghetti is not to my taste either. By the way, I enjoyed my spaghetti in tomato sauce (on toast) and only used half of it, so I'll have the remainder tonight. I know I'm not an Italian purist and I don't particularly enjoy pasta either.

But, king prawns Delicious, mouth-watering, delectable, luscious, scrumptious, yummy, finger-licking.

View attachment 10366

Oz

You won't get any argument from me!

 

[GodsGrace]

Brooklyn ,the land from whence the nephilum will return

Why Brooklyn???
I'm from Queens, BTW.
Northern Queens to be exact.
A very nice place.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is correct in English, but in Greek (as I understand it, I am not yet a Greek scholar) the word form determines what it modifies regardless of where it is in the sentence.

In Greek (again, as I understand it), you can say:
The brown cow jumped over the crooked fence.
or you can say
The jumped cow over the fence crooked brown.
And they both mean the same thing because the form of the words "brown" and "crooked" and "jumped" and "fence" all tell us what part they are. The cow being the subject has a different form than the cow would as the object. And so on and so on.

Whoa!
I know two other languages besides English (one fluent)
and this is impossible in either one.

Someone here, however, would know about your post...
And that would by OzSpen

Perhaps he'd like to comment?