The "End Times"

[JLB]

Colossians 2:15 kjv
15. And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Not in physical battle, but ….,,


I know eddif just shut up

eddif

You are welcome to reply however you like.


In Zechariah 14, do you believe the Day of the Lord is about Jesus dealing with principalities or those nations that surrounded Jerusalem?


JLB

 

[JLB]

Hi JLB,

I seriously doubt Jesus us interested in a city. He is interested in his people.

Now notice those in that city suffered before they were saved. So the timing is not one of the inhabitants saved. But afterwards, those who did those deeds would themselves be punished, which is what happened.

And Jesus is conquering the nations not with the sword but with the power of His Gospel. There are more just nations than in His day. There is more peace and freedom than in his day.

The bodily second coming hasn’t occurred, but he has come in other ways, especially judgement. “I’m coming” also includes those ways too.

Here is what happens to those who fought against Jerusalem.


And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths. Zechariah 12:14



JLB

 

[eddif]

You are welcome to reply however you like.


In Zechariah 14, do you believe the Day of the Lord is about Jesus dealing with principalities or those nations that surrounded Jerusalem?


JLB

You have the right to remain silent. If you give up the right to remain silent JLB may get you.

The end of time day. Hell starts for the enemies and heaven for the saints / bride.

eddif

 

[eddif]

I’ve been to the city of Jerusalem and next to Rome it the most idolatrous city I’ve ever seen. I doubt it is more meaningful to God than New York.

My wife went and gave about the same report. She takes physical trips, but I try and get in the spirit and take spiritual trips.

If Jerusalem meant nothing, there would not be talk of a New Jerusalem.

The cerebellum tree sits on either side of the clear spinal fluid.

Love that New Jerusalem symbolism.

eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Here is what happens to those who fought against Jerusalem.


And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths. Zechariah 12:14



JLB

You think that is literal and in the future?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

My wife went and gave about the same report. She takes physical trips, but I try and get in the spirit and take spiritual trips.

If Jerusalem meant nothing, there would not be talk of a New Jerusalem.

The new Jerusalem is not a physical city.

The cerebellum tree sits on either side of the clear spinal fluid.

Love that New Jerusalem symbolism.

eddif

Too ethereal for me. I have both feet on the ground.

 

[eddif]

The new Jerusalem is not a physical city.

Too ethereal for me. I have both feet on the ground.

Revelation 4:1 kjv
1. After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Acts 2:17 kjv
17. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Sons and daughters prophesy
Old men dream dreams

I do not know exactly if dreams is like streaming, and vision is more a gif.

I think someone needs their feet on the ground.

eddif

 

[Edward]

I’ve been to the city of Jerusalem and next to Rome it the most idolatrous city I’ve ever seen. I doubt it is more meaningful to God than New York.

I've wondered about that before. I've never been there. But I heard one testimony from a teacher believer and he said He was taken back in time and his mission was to walk down the main drag of Jerusalem from one end to the other, declaring to the people that David will be the next King. Some people said, insanity! Others said, king sming, who cares? Still others said Of course David will be King!

But that's not the point here, lol. He said the thing that he remembers most from going and doing that in Jerusalem at the time of David, was the stench of the city. It smelled strongly of, fish sitting out decaying, urine smell everywhere, animal dung. It was a nasty place he said. Well there's no crowns in heaven for keeping a clean house but at least they have better plumbing nowadays?

I know new york stinks even today.

 

[Edward]

The new Jerusalem is not a physical city.

How can it not be? It comes down out of the sky and sits on the new earth? Streets of gold ring a bell? gold is real. Gold is physical. We will have everything we have now and more.This earth and all of it's stuff, is a types and shadows of things to come. This world is...90% spiritual and 10% physical right now. so we could laugh at the 10% this earth offers us and reject it (!!!) for now, but soon it shall all be renewed and 100% spiritual access to all things spiritual.

It will be more real than we can comprehend and make this earth seem like a prototype, lol.

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus returned when and how He said He would--in the generation in which He lived.

I can only assume you are a preterist as they believe all prophecy has been fulfilled, God's judgement has happened and that Jesus has already returned. If He has already returned then why are we not with Him in the New Jerusalem?

Jesus rose from the grave and showed Himself to His disciples in the upper room giving them instruction and then He ascended up to heaven in the clouds, Acts 1:1-11. That was not the second coming. Here below is when Jesus said He will return, but yet no one knows the day or the hour of His return..

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[journeyman]

Hi Journeyman,

I see history as actually being linear, not circular with no forward progression.

Jesus was prophesied to come into the world with that mission and he did and that will not happen again.

The events he foretold regarding those who pierced him occurred in our past and will never happen again as he says they wouldn’t.

The nations have moved and are still moving away from war but prefer peaceful coexistence, but by bit. The unwillingness to engage openly with Russia in war is evidence of this.

The world is nothing like it was 2000 years ago. That is forward progress as the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our Lord.

Some things repeat as humans again make those same choices as their ancestors did, but many things will not be repeated.

That’s just my view.

Hi Dorothy Mae.
I see history as linear too, but looking forward and backward to Christ.
Of course, our Lord sacrificed himself once for all, but his sacrifice is seen by his Spirit in believers, the hardships his people endure because of him.
The world isn't much different over time where spiritual matters are concerned. The kingdoms of this world have always belonged to the Creator, who will judge all people at his judgment seat.

 

[Edward]

I can only assume you are a preterist as they believe all prophecy has been fulfilled, God's judgement has happened and that Jesus has already returned. If He has already returned then why are we not with Him in the New Jerusalem?

Jesus rose from the grave and showed Himself to His disciples in the upper room giving them instruction and then He ascended up to heaven in the clouds, Acts 1:1-11. That was not the second coming. Here below is when Jesus said He will return, but yet no one knows the day or the hour of His return..

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

That's the way I understand it too. All except for the rapture is at the 2nd coming. I believe the rapture has to happen before the Tribulation...because Jesus would not treat His Bride like that. (Hey honey let me beat the tar out of you and then we'll go to dinner...No.

Besides, I think scripture shows us it. The 2nd coming is exactly as described.

In the rapture, two will be in the field and only one is left behind. The people raptured just disappear and go to be with Jesus, to the marriage supper of the lamb.
And when He returns...hHe brings all of the saints with Him!

At the 2nd coming. When He will touch down on the Mt of Olives, stop the war, destroy the enemy and then the dead are resurected at that time, to rejoin their soul (which has either been in Heaven with Jesus or in scheol).
The condemned risen to death, and the saved bodies are risen in life, and take on immortality like Paul said.

At the Rapture everyone (qualified as Bride) goes body and soul but they do not receive their glorified bodies first. Only at the 2nd coming. So no one precedes the other.

Yes. Rapture could happen tomorrow.

 

[eddif]

That's the way I understand it too. All except for the rapture is at the 2nd coming. I believe the rapture has to happen before the Tribulation...because Jesus would not treat His Bride like that. (Hey honey let me beat the tar out of you and then we'll go to dinner...No.

Besides, I think scripture shows us it. The 2nd coming is exactly as described.

In the rapture, two will be in the field and only one is left behind. The people raptured just disappear and go to be with Jesus, to the marriage supper of the lamb.
And when He returns...hHe brings all of the saints with Him!

At the 2nd coming. When He will touch down on the Mt of Olives, stop the war, destroy the enemy and then the dead are resurected at that time, to rejoin their soul (which has either been in Heaven with Jesus or in scheol).
The condemned risen to death, and the saved bodies are risen in life, and take on immortality like Paul said.

At the Rapture everyone (qualified as Bride) goes body and soul but they do not receive their glorified bodies first. Only at the 2nd coming. So no one precedes the other.

Yes. Rapture could happen tomorrow.

IMHO:
And all the pro mill people glorified God and walked in love one with the other. Their differences just seemed not to be worth discussing.

eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

How can it not be? It comes down out of the sky and sits on the new earth? Streets of gold ring a bell? gold is real. Gold is physical. We will have everything we have now and more.This earth and all of it's stuff, is a types and shadows of things to come. This world is...90% spiritual and 10% physical right now. so we could laugh at the 10% this earth offers us and reject it (!!!) for now, but soon it shall all be renewed and 100% spiritual access to all things spiritual.

It will be more real than we can comprehend and make this earth seem like a prototype, lol.

Ok, it’s fairly harmless to believe that is a physical event, a city fully built, stone and trees and houses, descending from above. It’s certainly not worth disagreeing and maybe you’re right.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hi Dorothy Mae.
I see history as linear too, but looking forward and backward to Christ.
Of course, our Lord sacrificed himself once for all, but his sacrifice is seen by his Spirit in believers, the hardships his people endure because of him.
The world isn't much different over time where spiritual matters are concerned. The kingdoms of this world have always belonged to the Creator, who will judge all people at his judgment seat.

You know journeyman, you might be really blessed to look into how the world changed since Christ. Look up, for example, the spread of christianity. Look up the improvements in education, child mortality, longevity, poverty, and freedom. Look up the decline of dictators hand despots. Compare how long ruthless governments last now as compared to 2000 years ago. It’s very exciting.

 

[Edward]

Ok, it’s fairly harmless to believe that is a physical event, a city fully built, stone and trees and houses, descending from above. It’s certainly not worth disagreeing and maybe you’re right.

Well I'm at a loss to see what sort of symbolism it is to describe a city coming down from God. I know that revelation uses some symbolism but I missed tis one. So what would this symbolize?

Is anything too hard for God?

After Jesus was resurected he ate meals with the disciples. Fish on the beach. He told Thomas touch me I am flesh and bone. Spiritual doesn;t always mean ethereal, it just different.

 

[JLB]

You think that is literal and in the future?

Yes Zechariah 14, and the day of the Lord is a literal event and shows what will occur when Jesus returns on the day of the Lord, with His saints and to pour out the wrath of God upon the wicked.


The day of the Lord, which is also called the day of Christ is mention by many writers in the Old Testament and the New Testament.


Jesus taught directly from Zechariah 14, on the mount of Olives in Matthew 24, answering His disciples question of —

• what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” Matthew 24:3


The coming of the Lord, the Parousia, is the day of the Lord and is directly associated with the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and destruction of the wicked.


It is most certainly literal and in the future.




JLB

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes Zechariah 14, and the day of the Lord is a literal event and shows what will occur when Jesus returns on the day of the Lord, with His saints and to pour out the wrath of God upon the wicked.


The day of the Lord, which is also called the day of Christ is mention by many writers in the Old Testament and the New Testament.


Jesus taught directly from Zechariah 14, on the mount of Olives in Matthew 24, answering His disciples question of —

• what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” Matthew 24:3

Those are two different questions. The pouring out of Gods wrath for crucifying his son came with signs. They were so clear that the believers all left and were spared.

The second coming will have no signs same as there were no signs at all before the flood. @Asin the days of Noah..”

The coming of the Lord, the Parousia, is the day of the Lord and is directly associated with the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and destruction of the wicked.

Yes but no signs. That is to come.

It is most certainly literal and in the future.

Correct but the sun and moon are not the celestial bodies in the sky.

JLB

Are you open to hear a different view? The wrath of God was poured out on those Jesus so designated, those who had pierced him from whom the blood of all the prophets was required. No atheist today is as evil towards God as they were. None.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Well I'm at a loss to see what sort of symbolism it is to describe a city coming down from God. I know that revelation uses some symbolism but I missed tis one. So what would this symbolize?

Is anything too hard for God?

After Jesus was resurected he ate meals with the disciples. Fish on the beach. He told Thomas touch me I am flesh and bone. Spiritual doesn;t always mean ethereal, it just different.

The question is never can God do XYZ but does He?

 

[Edward]

The question is never can God do XYZ but does He?

What reason do we have to not think He will? He said He will, and scripture usually means what it says and says what it means. I don't understand why you doubt this.