Dorothy Mae
Member
But that has nothing to do with your eschatology since they’re all long dead.
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The War To End All Wars
- Thread starter journeyman
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Dorothy Mae
Member
I know lots of atheists who died and weren’t punished in this life. I could list many rich who did. They died in ease and comfort. What punishment?
The punishment described in Matthew 24 and Revelation is far and away the worse punishment humans ever faced. It’s very spectacular and Jesus said so.
They did but you don’t believe that was Revelation in reality. I, on the other hand, do. They faced complete destruction and terrible suffering for murdering him. Rejecting him was not the problem. Murdering him was.
journeyman
Member
The "end of Christs' earthly rule", is only accomplished by believing a lie, because the truth is, our Lord and Savior has ruled this universe from beginning without end.
He has done that,
He did that too (Jn.18:1.)
I'm not confused about it. Christs' rule has never changed. What changed is our perception. Knowing Jesus, our view of life goes from, "Does God exist?", to, "God does exist and has always ruled."
The earthly rule is going on now, as it always has been, that's Gods' rule of mercy, which he and his followers have always ruled by.
The stronger isn't the false witness, or the ones who beat him killed him. The stronger is the One who took all that and is still walking around...and way better shape. That's our perception of our Lord.
Jesus was born King. So what does this Psalm show us? That the Son to whom the inheritance belongs is both Man and God.Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7
Psa 2:8
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/psa/2/9/s_480009
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
journeyman
Member
Their flesh is dead. All saints still living.
journeyman
Member
Asaph answered this in Ps.73. His revelation came in vs.17,
till I entered the sanctuary of God; then I understood their final destiny.
Not until he entered through Christ where the Father is, did he underdtand that nobody is getting away with anything.
You'll have to cite the exact verses.
Jesus said,
do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? Lk.13:4
He was telling the people in attendance they would perish the same way as those before them.
Consecrated Life
Member
Really, when did He come down from heaven in like manner as He departed ?
Did this happen recently ?
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
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journeyman
Member
He didnt, because when he returns in Person, it will be the end of existence as we know it,Really, when did He come down from heaven in like manner as He departed ?
Did this happen recently ?
Act 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire 2 Thes.2:7-8
and shall destroywith the brightness of his coming: 2Thes..2:8
the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare 2Pet.3:10
Nothing temporary is left.
No they are not two separate events many years apart from each other. I explained all of this in Post #7.Satan is only "loosed" at the end of Christ's earthly rule.
His feet will have actually touched the Mt. of Olives at the beginning of His earthly rule as he then crosses the brook Kidron and enters Jerusalem through the Eastern gate,
All of this happening many, many years before " Satan is Loosed "
You are confused about Jesus's FIRST coming to reign on earth , and then many, many years later Jesus's settling all accounts in the battlefield of Megiddo .
Two very individual events.
Yes ? No ?
There is in God's Word a prophesy that mentions both individual events , Jesus's rule from Mt. Zion , FOLLOWED by Jesus's rath against the forces rallied against Him.
Please not the order in which these events occur, earthly rule followed by earthly rath.
Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7
Psa 2:8
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Psalms 2:1-12 is about the reign of the Lord's anointed
Why are ignoring what was written in Rev 20:7-10 which is very plain to understand.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Consecrated Life
Member
You just got done saying He has already returned and established His earthly rule.
Now you are saying he didn't.
Sounds like you have all bases covered.
"He has done that," (journeyman)
Consecrated Life
Member
What is the name of this anoited one who is given possession of the earth from God ?
Psa 2:8
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Dorothy Mae
Member
What does have to do with escatology?
Dorothy Mae
Member
What does that have to do with eschatology? The fact is many many rich died in ease and comfort. You can give me Bible verses that tell you they don’t, but you have to deny the facts. What happens AFTER death is different, but that has nothing to do with eschatology.
Christ wasn’t there yet so he didn’t enter through Christ, but this is addressing final judgement not eschatology.
True, but that has nothing to do with eschatology.
Your position is God will be punishing the whole world at once soon and I ask for what. Citing me verses regarding INDIVIDUAL judgement based on each individual’s deeds done in the body doesn’t answer the question.
Now I admit that this is a problem in your eschatology that you probably cannot answer. It’s also a question no one has likely asked before. But it occurred to me and knowing the ways of God, your position doesn’t fit. He never wiped out a people group cause they dared not to believe in Him. The charges were always and without exception much more severe.
Dorothy Mae
Member
This is a very interesting verse and one I’ve not considered before in eschatology. The description in Revelation does not at all match the description the angel gives. If he comes back “as he left,” then he isn’t riding a horse with a 10,000 saint entourage armed to the teeth. He is calmly and peacefully coming back with no rapture and no trumpet. He returns to earth, no meeting in the stratosphere dangling there. He simply returns as he left.Really, when did He come down from heaven in like manner as He departed ?
Did this happen recently ?
Act 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
For those not familiar with the preterist view, the descriptions of the Son of Man coming in the clouds is an old testament metaphor predicting terrible judgement by God on a wicked people whose sins were so great God wiped the people group (as they knew themselves to be) entirely out. This “coming in clouds” was used in the old testament when God was preparing to destroy a whole people group. It isn’t unique to Revelation. It isn’t a celestial elevator.
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Dorothy Mae
Member
journeyman, I forgot to give you the verse specifying that the events we are discussing in which I think are past and you think future as being the worst ever experienced by anyone on the planet before or since (for me.)
21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
This describes a singular event in human history done, in my view, to a people who murdered the Son of God and subsequently persecuted 100s of the sons and daughters of God made by Christ’s shed blood purely because they were jealous and so allowed Satan to direct their deeds. They were evil beyond endurance and all the blood of all the murdered prophets was laid upon them as Jesus said. They were judged by God on this earth for what they did. That’s over and done.
21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
This describes a singular event in human history done, in my view, to a people who murdered the Son of God and subsequently persecuted 100s of the sons and daughters of God made by Christ’s shed blood purely because they were jealous and so allowed Satan to direct their deeds. They were evil beyond endurance and all the blood of all the murdered prophets was laid upon them as Jesus said. They were judged by God on this earth for what they did. That’s over and done.
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Dorothy Mae
Member
If Jesus always ruled and only our perception changed, nothing actually changed in the world outside our heads, why did Jesus say after his resurrection that then all authority had been given to him at that point in time? He seemed to think something real had changed.
Consecrated Life
Member
His returning as He left while definitely referring to location, Him touching down on the Mount Of Olives, the scriptures do allude to the fact that there will be considerably more drama attached to His return .
It is to be accompanied by an earthquake that splits the Mount of Olives in two.
That the Lord is flying solo here as He splits the mountain is clear.
For me the scriptures could not be more clear that this is a sperate event, distinctly different from the Lord's appearing at the battlefield of Megiddo in much different manner with a great host.
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
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Dorothy Mae
Member
That’s what the scribes and pharisees believed too. The disciples did as well until the day of Pentecost. Then they never considered that view as true again.His returning as He left while definitely referring to location, Him touching down on the Mount Of Olives, the scriptures do allude to the fact that there will be considerably more drama attached to His return .
It is to be accompanied by an earthquake that splits the Mount of Olives in two.
That the Lord is flying solo here as He splits the mountain is clear.
For me the scriptures could not be more clear that this is a sperate event, distinctly different from the Lord's appearing at the battlefield of Megiddo in much different manner with a great host.
Zec 14:4
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
The Lord's anointed is Christ Jesus as Psalms 2:7-12 is a prophecy that was fulfilled in Christ as we read in Matthew 3:17; Luke 1:35 and Rev 2:27. Christ has always reigned over the earth and always will.
Consecrated Life
Member
The scribes and pharisees believed Jesus would land on the Mount of Olives and it would be split in two ?
Were did you read that ?
Zec 14:4
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Consecrated Life
Member
Consecrated Life said:
What is the name of this anoited one who is given possession of the earth from God ?
Psa 2:8
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
If Jesus had taken possession of the world when He came how would it have been possible for Satan to Tempt Him with all the kingdoms of the world ?
Notice Jesus never questioned Satan's possession of this world as he tempted Him with it :
..Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Mat 4:9
And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
What is the name of this anoited one who is given possession of the earth from God ?
Psa 2:8
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
If Jesus had taken possession of the world when He came how would it have been possible for Satan to Tempt Him with all the kingdoms of the world ?
Notice Jesus never questioned Satan's possession of this world as he tempted Him with it :
..Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.