" Thy Kingdom Come...In Earth As It Is In Heaven", How Do Non-Futurists Deal With This?

[Consecrated Life]

Right here in my house is one.
Another spot is in Ghana.
Everywhere the Lord reigns, justice prevails.

Oh you are good to go then
Just be sure to keep those window blinds closed and the tv unplugged or you may see injustice prevailing on earth.
I'm sure Jesus would keep those blinds closed tight as well to make sure there was justice in the earth .

​

Mass Shooting in California - The New York Times ?​

Antifa Rioters Rampage Through Atlanta, Torch Police Vehicle ?​

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If what the disciples & Jesus were discussing had been fulfilled on earth post-resurrection why were the disciples still asking Jesus about when it was coming to earth ?
And even more telling why did Jesus answer them in the affirmative, but they would not know the time ?

He didn’t answer in the affirmative. He had previously said the Jews would actually lose the Kingdom of God point blank, no maybe. Their thinking was incorrect altogether but he knew it would be corrected. It required i sight and a whole new understanding not done in a few words. When one’s whole world view is off, a few words won’t help.

Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons

You think maybe it is possible that what the disciples and Jesus are discussing here & what you are saying has already been fulfilled are two different things ?

The Kingdom of God has been taken away from Israel and given to another nation. That will not be given back.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

For me Times means times, & seasons means seasons, both of which Jesus informs the disciples they are not to know as they pertain to the coming Kingdom.
Pretty basic english.

Ok as long as we agree it doesn’t mean place or people. The kingdom is never ever going to be restored to Israel as in the Jews living in Palestine. It’s been given to another people group.

Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons

 

[ezrider]

We agree then, Jesus answered in the affirm & said it was not for them to know the time the kingdom would come.
Repeatedly .

Mat 24:3
.... the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

We agree only in that they were told it was not for them to know the the times and seasons..

Beyond that, I get the sense when you are referring to restoring the kingdom to Israel, you talking about a Kingdom ruled by a Man in the flesh, as the Jews including the disciples were expecting.

This is where I tend to agree more with Dorothy Mae. You have quoted the scripture from Acts 1:6-7 in reference to the coming kingdom. At this time Jesus had risen, and the disciples were still expecting a King to overthrow the Romans and restore the kingdom to Israel. Jesus walked with them and taught them many things for, what was it, 40 days that he spent with them after he had risen? But he had not yet ascended. It was only after the 50th day, on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came upon them that they began to understand the true nature of the kingdom. Dorothy is right when she says the Apostles never mention the "restoration of the kingdom to Israel" again.

Luke 17:20-21
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

The Kingdom of Heaven is for all generations. Perhaps for each generation there comes upon them a time and a season.

 

[eddif]

The Kingdom of God has been taken away from Israel and given to another nation. That will not be given back.

The good ancient Jews are in Abraham’s bosom with their wedding garment, awaiting the Resurrection.
Messianic Jews of today look forward to Heaven just as gentiles do.

Sure seems Pentecost brought back the Ezekiel dispersed Jews and converted gentiles of Acts 2.

Got to love the rich man and Lazarus.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

The Kingdom of God has been taken away from Israel and given to another nation. That will not be given back.

Well revelation comes in strange ways in the desert/wilderness.

The kingdom of the ancient Jews is for the second time preserved in a dispersion of sorts.

D-D-W for_his_glory you may just want to read, and give me a PM, although it can be public.

I never thought of the grave as a safe keeping sanctuary (so strongly before).
Abraham’s bosom ( with a visit from Jesus (where he preached the gospel to those in prison/captivity).

Just as the Ezekiel dispersion gave a sanctuary for those who sighed over their sins, Abraham’s bosom provides a sanctuary for those ancient Jews who accepted Jesus when hearing Jesus preach to those in Abraham’s bosom.

I really have been on this (quest?) for years and years. The foreshadowing of a sanctuary in the grave is getting more understandable. The Acts 2 return to the kingdom, by Jews, is a spiritual reality.

The Romans 3 advantage of the Jew (the true Jew) is great.

Dorothy IMHO some Jews returned to the kingdom at Pentecost. Some gentiles came to the kingdom at the gentile inclusion. All these are still preserved in one way or another.
The one new man is alive. Does it seem so? Not exactly. The word explains it all. A little hidden but there.

Let those sitting by judge,

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[theSeriousOne]

You first have to know the Only God before determining what that Kingdom really IS.

 

[Consecrated Life]

He didn’t answer in the affirmative.

He sure did answer in the affirmative .
His answer to the disciples that they will not be told the time of His return, by definition means that He will return.

Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons

 

[eddif]

He sure did answer in the affirmative .
His answer to the disciples that they will not be told the time of His return, by definition means that He will return.

Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons

It seems that the disciples had one time on their minds (probably very physical) .

Jesus had the past physical and spiritual season/seasons on His mind.

The Jews returned from Babylon, Ezekiel’s dispersion and will return from Abraham’s bosom at the Resurrection.

Some of this is seen in hindsight. We may not know the whole story yet.
Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Consecrated Life]

We agree only in that they were told it was not for them to know the the times and seasons..

Beyond that, I get the sense when you are referring to restoring the kingdom to Israel, you talking about a Kingdom ruled by a Man in the flesh, as the Jews including the disciples were expecting.

You get the wrong sense then .
On multiple levels.
The return of the glorified Christ will not be the baby of flesh born in a manger, or the man of flesh whose flesh was led to Golgotha to be nailed to a cross.
The Lord answered the disciples that His Glorious Return will be as lighting flashing across the sky as far as the eye can see:
Mat 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

No "man of flesh" will be able shine forth for every eye to see as lighting .
Agreed ?

Another wrong sense I am detecting, born of a pitiful lack of discernment , is that just because the disciples speak of restoring the Kingdom to Israel , that anybody who is a Jew will be saved .
Nothing could be further from the truth.
All jews who have rejected Him will be lost.
Just like everybody else.
The Lord even specifies that the Jews who have followed Him will be assigned a place in the judgement of those Jews who have not:
Mat 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
From Mt. Sini, to the 40 years wandering, the scripture is replete with those Jews who are lost and those who have faith.
Why anyone would think that Christ's dealing with Israel at His return would not involve the same spiritual dynamic is beyond me .
What's going to happen as the twelve tribes are judged in the restoration process is not anything like what the Jews of 2000 years ago were anticipating.
It will be a rude awakening for many , and a glorious day many.

 

[Consecrated Life]

It seems that the disciples had one time on their minds (probably very physical) .

Jesus had the past physical and spiritual season/seasons on His mind.


eddif

Mat 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

No "man of flesh" will be able shine forth for every eye to see as lighting .
Agreed ?

Another wrong sense I am detecting, born of a pitiful lack of discernment , is that just because the disciples speak of restoring the Kingdom to Israel , that anybody who is a Jew will be saved .
Nothing could be further from the truth.
All jews who have rejected Him will be lost.
Just like everybody else.
The Lord even specifies that the Jews who have followed Him will be assigned a place in the judgement of those Jews who have not:
Mat 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
From Mt. Sini, to the 40 years wandering, the scripture is replete with those Jews who are lost and those who have faith.
Why anyone would think that Christ's dealing with Israel at His return would not involve the same spiritual dynamic is beyond me .
What's going to happen as the twelve tribes are judged in the restoration process is not anything like what the Jews of 2000 years ago were anticipating.
It will be a rude & dreadful awakening for many , and a glorious day many.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

He sure did answer in the affirmative .
His answer to the disciples that they will not be told the time of His return, by definition means that He will return.

That’s not what he said. He never mentioned his return. He said essentially it’s not for them to know God what (seasons) or when (times) God is planning.

Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons

What and when. Does not confirm their idea at all. They were so far off it would take a lot to negative that theology which happened later. Jesus said the Kingdom would be removed from Israel, not restored.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes.
I should have just said read most of Philippians 2 from the beginning.

OK.

Also there are changes to take place at the last trump. We are not yet what we shall be.

We don't yet have our "glorified" body, but what other changes do you expect?

The flesh still exists. The wretched man regretfully still exists. Sin does not have dominion over us though.

Yikes. it seems you have never read Rom 6:6, wherein Paul writes of the destruction of the old man at water baptism.
We are new creatures after our having been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
You have a low opinion of the tabernacle of the Holy Spirit.

We are in Christ, and Christ is in us. We should be passionate about who we are through Jesus. Not luke warm because we are not perfect.
eddif

I choose to be passionate about who I am through Jesus Christ BECAUSE He made me perfect.
As everything born of God is perfect, so too am I perfect.

 

[Hopeful]

Oh you are good to go then
Just be sure to keep those window blinds closed and the tv unplugged or you may see injustice prevailing on earth.
I'm sure Jesus would keep those blinds closed tight as well to make sure there was justice in the earth .

Mass Shooting in California - The New York Times ?​

Antifa Rioters Rampage Through Atlanta, Torch Police Vehicle ?​

I would rather keep the doors open, so others can join me in glorifying God.
Anyone who wants to be a part of the kingdom of God is welcome.

 

[Hopeful]

We agree only in that they were told it was not for them to know the the times and seasons..

Beyond that, I get the sense when you are referring to restoring the kingdom to Israel, you talking about a Kingdom ruled by a Man in the flesh, as the Jews including the disciples were expecting.

This is where I tend to agree more with Dorothy Mae. You have quoted the scripture from Acts 1:6-7 in reference to the coming kingdom. At this time Jesus had risen, and the disciples were still expecting a King to overthrow the Romans and restore the kingdom to Israel. Jesus walked with them and taught them many things for, what was it, 40 days that he spent with them after he had risen? But he had not yet ascended. It was only after the 50th day, on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came upon them that they began to understand the true nature of the kingdom. Dorothy is right when she says the Apostles never mention the "restoration of the kingdom to Israel" again.

Luke 17:20-21
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

The Kingdom of Heaven is for all generations. Perhaps for each generation there comes upon them a time and a season.

The "time and season" is the day they repent of sin.

 

[Consecrated Life]

He sure did answer in the affirmative .
His answer to the disciples that they will not be told the time of His return, by definition means that He will return.

Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons

That’s not what he said. He never mentioned his return. He said essentially it’s not for them to know God what (seasons) or when (times) God is planning.

What and when. Does not confirm their idea at all. They were so far off it would take a lot to negative that theology which happened later. Jesus said the Kingdom would be removed from Israel, not restored.

Jesus gave specifics to the disciples regarding how he would appear at His return, while still reminding them the time of it was not for them to know:

Mat 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I would rather keep the doors open, so others can join me in glorifying God.
Anyone who wants to be a part of the kingdom of God is welcome.

​

​

Mass Shooting in California - The New York Times ?​

Antifa Rioters Rampage Through Atlanta, Torch Police Vehicle ?​

Your belief that it was the Lord's will that the father of lies, mass murdering, suicides, robbery, rape, burning, sexual slavery, looting , widespread drugs & drug deaths ,etc,etc,etc,, operates just the same in Heaven's Kingdom as he does now here in this world is certainly a unique theology.
I had never heard that Satan's adversarial dominion exists in heaven's kingdom?
1 Peter 5:8-10
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

" Thy Kingdom Come...In Earth As It Is In Heaven"​

 

[eddif]

We don't yet have our "glorified" body, but what other changes do you expect?

1 corinthians15:52 ljv
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Major changes I will need for eternal heaven life.

Yikes. it seems you have never read Rom 6:6, wherein Paul writes of the destruction of the old man at water baptism.
We are new creatures after our having been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
You have a low opinion of the tabernacle of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 6:6 kjv
6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Sin no longer has dominion over us. Not that we never ever sin, but the total control is broken.

Paul’s statement of bein a wretched man still exists. We will be delivered at the last trump.


I do not tell people a ceremony of baptism delivers us, but what Jesus did for us is our salvation.

John’s baptism is water baptism.

Don’t faint, but I believe our baptism is more spiritual than a water ceremonial water baptism.

Revelation 3:20 comes to mind. The quickening spirit (KJV) enters us
And
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is done by Jesus so we can have power to witness ti others.
Not so much for us but that others might believe.

So
We may differ in our particular beliefs, but then the body of Christ is made of different parts/people. I may not be you and you may not be me, but separately we form the one new man in Christ Jesus.

Who I witness to may not who you witness to.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[ezrider]

53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

I know this is most often looked at and taught as US receiving OUR Glorified bodies. Not sure where that comes from.


But I am inclined to think otherwise. I see a wedding gown. When this corruption (ME) puts on incorruption (CHRIST), and when this mortal subject to death (ME) puts on immortality (CHRIST).


Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[eddif]

I know this is most often looked at and taught as US receiving OUR Glorified bodies. Not sure where that comes from.


But I am inclined to think otherwise. I see a wedding gown. When this corruption (ME) puts on incorruption (CHRIST), and when this mortal subject to death (ME) puts on immortality (CHRIST).


Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Days of our earthly life. Let me think.
Ecclesiastes 5:20 kjv
20. For he shall not much remember the days of his life; because God answereth him in the joy of his heart.

All the ceremonies are part of our earth life. I am far too much a symbolism nut. One day all my cerebellum and kidney talk will cease and the ultimate reality will begin.

The death of who I am now will be swallowed up by a greater victory. I will see face to face and not through metaphysics.

Till that day sometimes the cerebellum will still be the tree planted on either side of a river clear as crystal. My thoughts now battle between the physical and spiritual. One river is Jordan. Another river is spinal fluid. Another river is in the New Jerusalem (the spiritual river I long to see).

eddif