Is believing/faith a work ?

[Jethro Bodine]

Repentance from sin and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins showed I had faith, but it didn't show I was righteous.

I agree on both counts. Particularly that religious rituals are not the evidence of the presence of saving faith. This theme goes all through the letters of the prophets.

'Love your neighbor as yourself', for what God's love actually looks like in a person, is the evidence that a person has the Spirit of God in salvation in them.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

They made me righteous, as I was not righteous before I did both.

Like Abraham, a person becomes righteous before God by having faith in God's promise of a Son, apart from works of righteousness - Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:21-22.

The proof that a person has become righteous through faith in God is their subsequent obedience - Genesis 22:12, James 2:18.

 

[atpollard]

No, lol.
The difference is demons don't believe that their sins have been forgiven in Jesus Christ.

To be fair to demons ... THEIR sins aren't forgiven in Jesus.
The problem is when PEOPLE think like DEMONS.

 

[atpollard]

So faith's rewards are revocable.
Agreed.

That isn't what he said.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That is a doctrine of devils.
The only sins "covered by the blood of Christ" are those washed away at baptism in His name.

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed." James 5:16

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So faith's rewards are revocable.
Agreed.

How does that work? One would have to sin for that to happen. Sin that you say true believers never ever commit because they are incapable of committing sin.

Please explain.

 

[Soldiers]

That post was to Hopeful, not you.

My bad

 

[Soldiers]

You sound like you are unsure!

Or you're confused my friend!

 

[brother Paul]

The word “believe” in the Greek text is “pisteuo” which is a verb denoting a work. If a person could believe in Christ before they are born again by the Spirit, it would mean they have done a work and that would mean they have worked for their salvation which is totally against what the scriptures teach. Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I know this is an old thread but you are incorrect here on so many levels. I do understand why because I cut my spiritual teeth on Calvinism and represented it and argued it for nearly a decade. And then, with God's help I re-read the word in its entirety, void of the denominational theology by which I had been convinced, and plainly and simply read the word for what it says (not what others told me it means).

So first, Faith (Pistis) is the root of and the reason why Hebrew thinkers chose pisteuo and why they spend so much time explaining THEIR usage. Now though there are types of works and we CANNOT earn or deserve salvation (for it is solely by grace). Faith (pistis) as the Bible concept reveals is NOT a work (for just Paul see Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3:28, 4:2-5; Galatians 3:10-11; Philippians 3:9).

Secondly, "faith" is not the gift mentioned in Ephesians 2:8-9, it is Salvation. For too many Greek and Christian Scholars have proved this so many times it is unspeakable that people still eisegete this passage in this way.

Thirdly, true depravity doctrine in the Bible does not mean absolute incapability for if it did than 100s of passages where God commands people to turn or repent, or audibly speaks to some and directs them (like Moses or Jeremiah) would be fruitless, meaningless, dribble or else a cruel joke. God by this error becomes a being who created people like say Hitler to actually do the specific things He commands men NOT to do, thus making God the author of Sin (and hence sickness and death). But God says this is of the Devil and his minions. Is God then lying to us? Most certainly NOT.

As the Bible teaches faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word whether that is by the Spirit, or audibly by God or a Preacher or Teacher, or by hearing a Testimony or the Gospel and being moved. But Mankind is REQUIRED to respond and can INITIALLY respond. Here are some examples.

John 1:12 tells us that as many as accepted HIM to them was given the right or power to BECOME the children of God. Not those who ARE the children of God will accept Him.

Acts 2:38 Peter tells us Repent and be baptized (repent means we change OUR mind) into the remission of your sins and you SHALL RECIEVE the gist of the Holy Spirit. Not thos who already have the Spirit must repent and be baptized.

Finally (and there are so many more even Ephesians 1:13) look at6 what JESUS actually says in Revelations 3:20. He says clearly and plainly that when He knocks, whoever opens the door will be whom He comes in and eats with. NOT those to whom He is already with will open.

So just like with Cain, before he actually does the horrible deed, God comes and speaks audibly with him and offers Cain grace (if you go and do it right will also not go well with thee?) and then from love warns him by saying if he does not heed then Sin awaits to come in and control him.

So by grace, God initiates or inspires or nudges, but then in His sovereign will He determined that the human must initially respond (and are capable of doing so) and THEN He will fill them with the Spirit taking up residence within unto Salvation. Feel free to comment

 

[brother Paul]

Delete for now

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Then it was the Jews He was talking to that would benefit from His speech in John 5:24.
Especially since He had not yet been crucified or resurrected.

You'll have to explain how John 5:24 means present tense hearing and believing meant present tense salvation and eternal life for the Jews of Jesus day but not for believers today.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

John 1:12 tells us that as many as accepted HIM to them was given the right or power to BECOME the children of God. Not those who ARE the children of God will accept Him.

Acts 2:38 Peter tells us Repent and be baptized (repent means we change OUR mind) into the remission of your sins and you SHALL RECIEVE the gist of the Holy Spirit. Not thos who already have the Spirit must repent and be baptized.

Finally (and there are so many more even Ephesians 1:13) look at6 what JESUS actually says in Revelations 3:20. He says clearly and plainly that when He knocks, whoever opens the door will be whom He comes in and eats with. NOT those to whom He is already with will open.

Good ones.

 

[brightfame52]

Hi
If we know it was not by any works of righteousness we have done.

Then whose?

If you answer Jesus's works then consider:

Jesus believed His father and If all He did was believe without going to the cross then we would still be in ours sins.

So believe is not a work of righteousness
but the way of righteousness.



TITUS 3:5

If you believe that God saved you because you believed, thats works, period

 

[Hopeful]

1 Timothy 1:19
19holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and thereby shipwrecked their faith.

Before you post a response, ask yourself, why would Paul be talking about holding onto and not rejecting fake faith?

He isn't talking about not rejecting fake faith.

(Because that's what kind of faith you're going to say is rejected.) Obviously, he's talking about holding onto genuine faith, which some have had but have rejected. The exhortation is to hold onto and not reject genuine faith.

Agreed.
The true Christians will heed those words, by the grace of God.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I know this is an old thread but you are incorrect here on so many levels. I do understand why because I cut my spiritual teeth on Calvinism and represented it and argued it for nearly a decade. And then, with God's help I re-read the word in its entirety, void of the denominational theology by which I had been convinced, and plainly and simply read the word for what it says (not what others told me it means).

So first, Faith (Pistis) is the root of and the reason why Hebrew thinkers chose pisteuo and why they spend so much time explaining THEIR usage. Now though there are types of works and we CANNOT earn or deserve salvation (for it is solely by grace). Faith (pistis) as the Bible concept reveals is NOT a work (for just Paul see Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3:28, 4:2-5; Galatians 3:10-11; Philippians 3:9).

Secondly, "faith" is not the gift mentioned in Ephesians 2:8-9, it is Salvation. For too many Greek and Christian Scholars have proved this so many times it is unspeakable that people still eisegete this passage in this way.

Thirdly, true depravity doctrine in the Bible does not mean absolute incapability for if it did than 100s of passages where God commands people to turn or repent, or audibly speaks to some and directs them (like Moses or Jeremiah) would be fruitless, meaningless, dribble or else a cruel joke. God by this error becomes a being who created people like say Hitler to actually do the specific things He commands men NOT to do, thus making God the author of Sin (and hence sickness and death). But God says this is of the Devil and his minions. Is God then lying to us? Most certainly NOT.

As the Bible teaches faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word whether that is by the Spirit, or audibly by God or a Preacher or Teacher, or by hearing a Testimony or the Gospel and being moved. But Mankind is REQUIRED to respond and can INITIALLY respond. Here are some examples.

John 1:12 tells us that as many as accepted HIM to them was given the right or power to BECOME the children of God. Not those who ARE the children of God will accept Him.

Acts 2:38 Peter tells us Repent and be baptized (repent means we change OUR mind) into the remission of your sins and you SHALL RECIEVE the gist of the Holy Spirit. Not thos who already have the Spirit must repent and be baptized.

Finally (and there are so many more even Ephesians 1:13) look at6 what JESUS actually says in Revelations 3:20. He says clearly and plainly that when He knocks, whoever opens the door will be whom He comes in and eats with. NOT those to whom He is already with will open.

So just like with Cain, before he actually does the horrible deed, God comes and speaks audibly with him and offers Cain grace (if you go and do it right will also not go well with thee?) and then from love warns him by saying if he does not heed then Sin awaits to come in and control him.

So by grace, God initiates or inspires or nudges, but then in His sovereign will He determined that the human must initially respond (and are capable of doing so) and THEN He will fill them with the Spirit taking up residence within unto Salvation. Feel free to comment

Nice post. Glad you escaped calvinism. You won’t convince the Calvinists here, but it’s nice to have you.

 

[Hopeful]

The one I know about is you choosing not to acknowledge Galatians 5:17. As for the rest of your life, I'm not there to see your sins. But like I say, I have no reason to think you're not a stand up guy.

I haven't rejected it.
In its context with verse 16, it is apparent that those walking after the Sprit cannot do the works of the flesh.
And those walking after the flesh cannot do the works of the Spirit.
If we walk in the Spirit, we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh.

You just don't seem to get it that your sinless perfection argument is demonstrably and patently false. I have never met a single sinlessly perfect Christian, and more, one who has been that since the day they first believed. It's a ridiculous claim that can not be backed by any practical evidence whatsoever.

I'm sorry we can't meet, but I suspect that after a week with me you would still not believe YOU could walk in the Spirit full time.

 

[Hopeful]

If you believe that God saved you because you believed, thats works, period

Thank God for the ways and means of salvation.

 

[Hopeful]

I agree on both counts. Particularly that religious rituals are not the evidence of the presence of saving faith. This theme goes all through the letters of the prophets.

'Love your neighbor as yourself', for what God's love actually looks like in a person, is the evidence that a person has the Spirit of God in salvation in them.

If I didn't have the faith that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ would wash away my past sins, (Acts 2:38, 22:16), and give name a good conscience towards God, (1 Peter 3:21), I wouldn't have gotten baptized.

 

[Hopeful]

Like Abraham, a person becomes righteous before God by having faith in God's promise of a Son, apart from works of righteousness - Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:21-22.

It is the works of the Law that don't show one is righteous.
Circumcision, dietary rules, tithing, feast keeping, etc. can't make on righteous.

The proof that a person has become righteous through faith in God is their subsequent obedience - Genesis 22:12, James 2:18.

Faith without obedience is dead.

 

[journeyman]

If you believe that God saved you because you believed, thats works, period

People believed because of the work of the Spirit,

I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. Jn.14:29

Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name Jn.2:23

So he and his whole household believed. Jn.4:53