Another Gospel?

[Robert Pate]

Col 2:10 doesn't say God sees Christians as perfect and complete "In Christ"



There is no need to insult me. You could make your point without doing that.




So if a Christian sins there are consequences.
If there are consequences there must be a law that has been broken.
.

I did not intend to insult you.

You are not able to believe Paul, who said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those that believe" Romans 10:4.

 

[Mungo]

You are not able to believe Paul, who said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those that believe" Romans 10:4.

You keep ignoring that when Paul writes of "law" in Romans he means the Old Covenant Law not ALL law.

Yes Christ is the end of the (old) law meaning the purpose of the law as it says "the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith" (Gal 3:24).

But we are not under the Old Covenant but under the New Covenant.
As Hebrews says
For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. (Heb 7:12)
There is a change in the law not the abolition of all law.

We do sin.
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1John 1:8-10)

Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. (1Jn 3:4)
We are guilty of lawlessness because we have broken the law.

.

 

[Robert Pate]

You keep ignoring that when Paul writes of "law" in Romans he means the Old Covenant Law not ALL law.

Yes Christ is the end of the (old) law meaning the purpose of the law as it says "the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith" (Gal 3:24).

But we are not under the Old Covenant but under the New Covenant.
As Hebrews says
For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. (Heb 7:12)
There is a change in the law not the abolition of all law.

We do sin.
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1John 1:8-10)

Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. (1Jn 3:4)
We are guilty of lawlessness because we have broken the law.

.

There are no laws, rules or religion for believers under the New Covenant. You have to believe that there is, otherwise your Catholic religion would be worthless.

Where there is law there is wrath, Where there is no law, there is no sin, Romans 4:15. This is why Paul said to the Galatians, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law" Galatians 4:21.

To be under the law or subject to it is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10.

Christians are not under the law, they are "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

 

[Mungo]

There are no laws, rules or religion for believers under the New Covenant. You have to believe that there is, otherwise your Catholic religion would be worthless.

Of course there are laws under the New Covenant.
As Hebrews says
For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. (Heb 7:12)
There is a change in the law not the abolition of all law.


We do sin.
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1John 1:8-10)


Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. (1Jn 3:4)
We are guilty of lawlessness because we have broken the law.

Where there is law there is wrath, Where there is no law, there is no sin, Romans 4:15. This is why Paul said to the Galatians, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law" Galatians 4:21.

To be under the law or subject to it is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10.

As I pointed out before when Paul writes of "law" in Romans he means the Old Covenant Law not ALL law.

Christians are not under the law, they are "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

Col 2:10 does not say Christians are not under the law, they are "In Christ". Is that why you don't actually quote what it says?

 

[Robert Pate]

Of course there are laws under the New Covenant.
As Hebrews says
For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. (Heb 7:12)
There is a change in the law not the abolition of all law.


We do sin.
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1John 1:8-10)


Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. (1Jn 3:4)
We are guilty of lawlessness because we have broken the law.


As I pointed out before when Paul writes of "law" in Romans he means the Old Covenant Law not ALL law.



Col 2:10 does not say Christians are not under the law, they are "In Christ". Is that why you don't actually quote what it says?

When Paul said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those that believe" Romans 10:4. He meant all of the law and the commandments. To be under the law is to be under condemnation, Galatians 3:10. Do you want to be judged by the law? The law demands that you be perfect. Are you perfect?

"There is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus" Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation because there is no law. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14.

 

[Mungo]

When Paul said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those that believe" Romans 10:4. He meant all of the law and the commandments.

No he didn't mean all of the law and the commandments.

If you read Romans rather than focussing on one verse, you will see thatPail is clearly referring to the Old Covenant law.

To be under the law is to be under condemnation, Galatians 3:10. Do you want to be judged by the law? The law demands that you be perfect. Are you perfect?

If you read Gal 2 as well as Gal 3 from the start you will see that clearly Gal 3:10 refers to the OT law.

"There is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus" Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation because there is no law. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14.

There is no condemnation because we are not living under the OT law.

Jesus nailed the OT law to the cross. This is very clear from vs 16
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath.

Also 2 verses prior Paul says "you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead." You see - baptism + faith.

 

[Robert Pate]

No he didn't mean all of the law and the commandments.

If you read Romans rather than focussing on one verse, you will see thatPail is clearly referring to the Old Covenant law.




If you read Gal 2 as well as Gal 3 from the start you will see that clearly Gal 3:10 refers to the OT law.

There is no condemnation because we are not living under the OT law.

Jesus nailed the OT law to the cross. This is very clear from vs 16
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath.

Also 2 verses prior Paul says "you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead." You see - baptism + faith.

Because of your Catholic religion you believe that you have to do something to be saved.

The work of salvation has ALREADY been done. Jesus did it all and he did it perfectly. The call now is to accept what has ALREADY been done. Jesus has provided salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. You need to renounce Catholicism and trust in Christ alone.

 

[Mungo]

Because of your Catholic religion you believe that you have to do something to be saved.

I believe we have to do something because that that's what Jesus said.
Jesus said to the apostles "He who believes and is baptized will be saved"
Why do you not believe Jesus?

The work of salvation has ALREADY been done. Jesus did it all and he did it perfectly. The call now is to accept what has ALREADY been done. Jesus has provided salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. You need to renounce Catholicism and trust in Christ alone.

Heb 2:9 doesn't even mention salvation.

If Jesus has done it all already then you either believe in universalism (everyone is saved) or God saves some and not others. But on what basis does he save some?
Does God throw a dice?
Or is it because they have done something he commanded - such as believe and be baptised?

 

[GodsGrace]

Spiritually speaking, God sees Christians as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. That is going to be difficult for you to believe because of your Catholic religion. Religious people like yourself are trying to do in their flesh what God has ALREADY done in Jesus Christ.

Sinning has plenty of consequences. Don't do it.

I like how you carefully pick out your verses RP.
The problem is that you don't keep reading....

Colossians 2:10
10So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.
You always make it sound like YOU have nothing to do because JESUS did it all.
This is not Christianity.
Jesus said if you want to follow Him, you must pick up your cross daily.

Let's see what comes next:

Colossians 2:11-12
11When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature.c
12For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead.

Now let's find out what was cut away and what this new life is:

Colossians 3:5-15
5So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.
6Because of these sins, the anger of God is coming.b
7You used to do these things when your life was still part of this world.
8But now is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, and dirty language.
9Don’t lie to each other, for you have stripped off your old sinful nature and all its wicked deeds.
10Put on your new nature, and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and become like him.
11In this new life, it doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or a Gentile,c circumcised or uncircumcised, barbaric, uncivilized,d slave, or free. Christ is all that matters, and he lives in all of us.
12Since God chose you to be the holy people he loves, you must clothe yourselves with tenderhearted mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.
13Make allowance for each other’s faults, and forgive anyone who offends you. Remember, the Lord forgave you, so you must forgive others.
14Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds us all together in perfect harmony.
15And let the peace that comes from Christ rule in your hearts. For as members of one body you are called to live in peace. And always be thankful.

Wow RP. Looks like there's a lot to do.
I hope you're living with Christ as your example and doing all of the above.

 

[GodsGrace]

Because of your Catholic religion you believe that you have to do something to be saved.

The work of salvation has ALREADY been done. Jesus did it all and he did it perfectly. The call now is to accept what has ALREADY been done. Jesus has provided salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. You need to renounce Catholicism and trust in Christ alone.

Why would it be necessary to renounce Catholicsim?
Do you not realize that what you practice in Protestantism first started in Catholicism?
The foundation of your faith is Catholic.

 

[Robert Pate]

I like how you carefully pick out your verses RP.
The problem is that you don't keep reading....

Colossians 2:10
10So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.
You always make it sound like YOU have nothing to do because JESUS did it all.
This is not Christianity.
Jesus said if you want to follow Him, you must pick up your cross daily.

Let's see what comes next:

Colossians 2:11-12
11When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature.c
12For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead.

Now let's find out what was cut away and what this new life is:

Colossians 3:5-15
5So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.
6Because of these sins, the anger of God is coming.b
7You used to do these things when your life was still part of this world.
8But now is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, and dirty language.
9Don’t lie to each other, for you have stripped off your old sinful nature and all its wicked deeds.
10Put on your new nature, and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and become like him.
11In this new life, it doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or a Gentile,c circumcised or uncircumcised, barbaric, uncivilized,d slave, or free. Christ is all that matters, and he lives in all of us.
12Since God chose you to be the holy people he loves, you must clothe yourselves with tenderhearted mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.
13Make allowance for each other’s faults, and forgive anyone who offends you. Remember, the Lord forgave you, so you must forgive others.
14Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds us all together in perfect harmony.
15And let the peace that comes from Christ rule in your hearts. For as members of one body you are called to live in peace. And always be thankful.

Wow RP. Looks like there's a lot to do.
I hope you're living with Christ as your example and doing all of the above.

Nope, Christ is not my example. That is a heavy one, Matthew 23:5. I am not trying to be good enough to be saved. I am resting "In Christ" Hebrews 4:10. You are full of law. The law was not made for the Righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, 1 Timothy 1:9. I don't need laws, rules and commandments, I am led by the Holy Spirit, John 16:13. More than likely you will be in the "Lord, Lord, didn't I group" Matthew 7:21-23. Whatever comes out of my Christian life is to the glory of God, Ephesians 2:10. Not to the glory of my religious flesh.

 

[GodsGrace]

Nope, Christ is not my example. That is a heavy one, Matthew 23:5. I am not trying to be good enough to be saved. I am resting "In Christ" Hebrews 4:10. You are full of law. The law was not made for the Righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, 1 Timothy 1:9. I don't need laws, rules and commandments, I am led by the Holy Spirit, John 16:13. More than likely you will be in the "Lord, Lord, didn't I group" Matthew 7:21-23. Whatever comes out of my Christian life is to the glory of God, Ephesians 2:10. Not to the glory of my religious flesh.

You're doing it again.
You don't keep reading....
Mathew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
He who does the will of the Father will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matthew 7:23
23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’


So let's find out what the will of the Father is, and that Jesus taught because He was speaking for the Father:

Matthew 5:13
13“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.
1. Salt was added to sacrifices as a sign of purification.
2. Salt made things endure...
3. An agreement was solidified by eating some salt.

Jesus meant that we are now the salt.
Jesus meant that we are not the preservatives, to pass on the teachings of Jesus.
We are to preserve our devotion to God.
Jesus heals us...we are to heal the world.

Israel's salt came from the Dead Sea. It was impure.
If we become impure we lose all of the above qualities.
We become disloyal to God and are of no use.

Matthew 5:14-16
14“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden;
15nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
16“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

Just as Israel was a light to the Gentiles who were considered lost, Jesus says that we are now the light of the world. He has passed this responsibility on to us.

Jesus was born into a dark world, John 8:12 and John 1:3-5, but He taught His disciples to shine in the darkness, as in the Beatitudes, as in the good deeds we are to do for others.

If there are no good deeds, there is no light to shine and we become the same as unbelievers.
Our good works glorify God and speak well of Christianity.

Again, it certainly seems that Jesus left us with much to do in the Kingdom of God here on earth.
WE are God's hands and feet. And He expects us to use them for good purpose.

 

[GodsGrace]

Nope, Christ is not my example. That is a heavy one, Matthew 23:5. I am not trying to be good enough to be saved. I am resting "In Christ" Hebrews 4:10. You are full of law. The law was not made for the Righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, 1 Timothy 1:9. I don't need laws, rules and commandments, I am led by the Holy Spirit, John 16:13. More than likely you will be in the "Lord, Lord, didn't I group" Matthew 7:21-23. Whatever comes out of my Christian life is to the glory of God, Ephesians 2:10. Not to the glory of my religious flesh.

BTW, you broke TOS rules 1.1 and 1.4
This is a friendly reminder that you're in the Theology Forum.
Please do not break the rules.
Thanks.

 

[Robert Pate]

BTW, you broke TOS rules 1.1 and 1.4
This is a friendly reminder that you're in the Theology Forum.
Please do not break the rules.
Thanks.

What did I say to break the rules?

 

[Robert Pate]

I like how you carefully pick out your verses RP.
The problem is that you don't keep reading....

Colossians 2:10
10So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.
You always make it sound like YOU have nothing to do because JESUS did it all.
This is not Christianity.
Jesus said if you want to follow Him, you must pick up your cross daily.

Let's see what comes next:

Colossians 2:11-12
11When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature.c
12For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead.

Now let's find out what was cut away and what this new life is:

Colossians 3:5-15
5So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.
6Because of these sins, the anger of God is coming.b
7You used to do these things when your life was still part of this world.
8But now is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, and dirty language.
9Don’t lie to each other, for you have stripped off your old sinful nature and all its wicked deeds.
10Put on your new nature, and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and become like him.
11In this new life, it doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or a Gentile,c circumcised or uncircumcised, barbaric, uncivilized,d slave, or free. Christ is all that matters, and he lives in all of us.
12Since God chose you to be the holy people he loves, you must clothe yourselves with tenderhearted mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.
13Make allowance for each other’s faults, and forgive anyone who offends you. Remember, the Lord forgave you, so you must forgive others.
14Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds us all together in perfect harmony.
15And let the peace that comes from Christ rule in your hearts. For as members of one body you are called to live in peace. And always be thankful.

Wow RP. Looks like there's a lot to do.
I hope you're living with Christ as your example and doing all of the above.

Christ may be your example, but not mine. Trying to be like Jesus will make you the worlds biggest legalist.

 

[GodsGrace]

What did I say to break the rules?

Please don't judge someone's spiritual state.
You said I would be among those Jesus would not know. Please read the TOS.

 

[GodsGrace]

Christ may be your example, but not mine. Trying to be like Jesus will make you the worlds biggest legalist.

If Jesus is not your example,,,,who is?

I stated what Jesus said about His followers.
Do you not agree with what Jesus taught?

 

[GodsGrace]

Christ may be your example, but not mine. Trying to be like Jesus will make you the worlds biggest legalist.

Are you going to reply to post 72?

 

[Robert Pate]

Are you going to reply to post 72?

I did reply. You think that it is all about you. It is not about you, it is about Jesus Christ.

 

[Robert Pate]

Why would it be necessary to renounce Catholicsim?
Do you not realize that what you practice in Protestantism first started in Catholicism?
The foundation of your faith is Catholic.

The foundation of my faith is Jesus Christ and his Gospel.