Robert Pate
Member
I believe that Paul would be a good example.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Another Gospel?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Could you please tell me the post number of your reply?
Do you not believe what the NT teaches?
setst777
Member
If your foundation of faith is Jesus Christ and his Gospel then should you not be listening to and following him by your faith to inherit eternal life from him?
1 John 2:1-6 (WEB) My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. If anyone sins, we have a Counselor with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous. 2 And he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. 3 This is how we know that we know him: {{{if we keep his commandments}}}. 4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him. 5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word. This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.
John 10:27-28 (WEB) My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they [the sheep who listen to and follow him] shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Hebrews 5:9 (WEB) Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation
Matthew 28:18-20 (WEB) 18 Jesus came to them and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
True the Spirit works in us by leading us, but only as we follow - careful to walk by the Spirit, so that the Spirit will give us eternal life.
Galatians 6:7-9 (WEB) 7 {{Do not be deceived. God is not mocked}}, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap destruction. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{from the Spirit}} reap eternal life. 9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, {{if we}} do not give up.
Romans 8:3-4 (WEB) 3 For what the law couldn’t do; in that, it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh; 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:12-14 (NIV) 12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation — but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
Galatians 5:24-25 (NIV) 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
The Christian is to continue in the same faith he had when he received the Spirit, because Christians will grieve (Ephesians 4:17-32; Isaiah 63:10); quench (1 Thessalonians 5:19); insult (Hebrews 10:24-31); resist (Act 7:51), reject (1 Thessalonians 4:1-8), lie to (Acts 5:3), and test (Acts 5:9), the Spirit of God indwelling them, which can result in eternal punishment if not repented of (Hebrews 10:24-30); for the Spirit will only give eternal life to those Christians who continue to sow to the Spirit without giving up (Galatians 6:7-9).
Robert Pate
Member
I like Paul, am a New Covenant Christian. I don't live by laws or rules. I am led and taught by the Holy Spirit.
setst777
Member
Actually, I believe all of the Gospel.
- I believe all the Scriptures that say we are saved by the grace of God by faith in Lord Jesus.
- And I also believe all the Gospel Scriptures that explain to us what it means to believe in Lord Jesus by which God chooses to save us.
Therefore, you have made up your own "gospel" that you define for yourself, ignoring all the Scriptures that define the true Gospel by which God saves us.
Robert Pate
Member
I don't reject any New Covenant scriptures. Old Covenant scriptures are no longer relevant for New Testament Christians. Hebrews 8:13. The only New Covenant Christian was the apostle Paul. You are all over the Bible mixing Old Covenant scriptures with New Covenant scriptures, trying to make sense out of it all. Not all of the New Testament is New Covenant theology, much of the New Testament was written under the Old Covenant. If you want to know what New Covenant theology is, you will have to read Paul's epistles and allow them to determine what you believe. Example. Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. This means no more laws, rules or religion. Laws, rules and religion is not of the faith, Romans 6:14.
We are to be Christlike in all we do and say. If Christ is not our example of living how God wants us to live out our salvation in and through Christ, then you are believing a different gospel being deceived by the lies of the gospel according to Satan who is the father of lies. Jesus taught us how to obey the moral parts of the law with Gods greatest commandment of love, Matthew 22:36-40.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Someone please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.
There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.
There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
setst777
Member
I quoted only the NT Scriptures regarding the Gospel of Christ. I suggest you check again the Scriptures I quoted.
If you feel that Lord Jesus words are to be rejected because you think they are Old Covenant, well I feel sorry for you.
The only two Scriptures I quoted from Lord Jesus are New Covenant teaching, and are as follows:
John 10:27-28 (WEB) My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they [the sheep who listen to and follow him] shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Matthew 28:18-19 (WEB) 18 Jesus came to them and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
All the rest of the Scriptures I quoted are from the Apostle Paul, and one Scripture from the Apostle John.
Here is the Scripture from the Apostle John, which is about the New Covenant:
1 John 2:1-6 (WEB) My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. If anyone sins, we have a Counselor with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous. 2 And he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. 3 This is how we know that we know him: {{{if we keep his commandments}}}. 4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him. 5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word. This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.
Here are the Scriptures from the Apostle Paul, which are about the New Covenant:
Hebrews 5:9 (WEB) Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation.
Galatians 6:7-9 (WEB) 7 {{Do not be deceived. God is not mocked}}, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap destruction. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{from the Spirit}} reap eternal life. 9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, {{if we}} do not give up.
Romans 8:3-4 (WEB) 3 For what the law couldn’t do; in that, it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh; 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:12-14 (NIV) 12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation — but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
Galatians 5:24-25 (NIV) 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
I also refenced Scriptures, mostly from the Apostle Paul, one from Stephen, and a couple from the Apostle Peter, all are New Covenant teaching, as follows:
The Christian is to continue in the same faith he had when he received the Spirit, because Christians will grieve (Ephesians 4:17-32; Isaiah 63:10); quench (1 Thessalonians 5:19); insult (Hebrews 10:24-31); resist (Act 7:51), reject (1 Thessalonians 4:1-8), lie to (Acts 5:3), and test (Acts 5:9), the Spirit of God indwelling them, which can result in eternal punishment if not repented of (Hebrews 10:24-30); for the Spirit will only give eternal life to those Christians who continue to sow to the Spirit without giving up (Galatians 6:7-9).
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Why?
Did Paul go to the cross for you or did Jesus go to the cross for you?
Does it seem to you that maybe Paul made being a Christian easier than Jesus did?
The judging will be done by Jesus and not by Paul, so I would suggest that you pay attention to what Jesus taught.
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.
I'd also add that Paul was in line with what Jesus taught.
Jesus taught to share our love with everyone, to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, and do all manners of good works,
just as Paul exhorted us to be prepared for every manner of good works.
2 Timothy 3:17.
And keep in mind a most important verse in
Titus 2:16
16They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.
The above was written about persons that were entering the church and teaching doctrine different than what Paul had taught. They were DISOBEDIENT and worthless FOR ANY GOOD DEED.
Jesus came to establish the Kingdom of God here on earth.
If we want to enter,
and to remain,
in the Kingdom,
we must adhere to its rules.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
It surely does not seem like it RP.
Because instead of teaching new Christians that we are to obey our Lord,
you teach that there is something legalistic about obeying Him.
Something wrong with obeying God.
Jesus said:
Luke 6:40
40“A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher.
Perhaps your teacher should be Jesus and not Paul?
Jesus said:
Luke 6:46-49
46“Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
47“Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like:
48he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built.
49“But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.”
Which man should we be like?
Robert Pate
Member
You have an Old Covenant based theology. The Old Covenant has been abolished by Jesus Christ, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. Under the New Covenant God's people do not live by laws, rules or religion, instead they live by faith in Christ and his Gospel, Romans 1:17.
Under the New Covenant, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those that believe" Romans 10:4.
Christians no longer need rules, laws or religion, instead they are led by the Holy Spirit, Hebrews 8:10-13. In the Gospel we have ALREADY been reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. In the Gospel God ALREADY sees his people as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. It appears to me that you are trying to do in your flesh what God has ALREADY done in Jesus Christ.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
I agree that the Old Covenant has been abolished. It was regulated by rules and laws and this method did not work very well.
But why?
Because God tried to let the people of the time, the Israelites, try to obey the laws and rules on their own strength.
This was not possible, although, we must say that even back then persons were saved BY FAITH and the obedience came after -- In Abraham's example, I'd say the obedience came first, but we're not told how it happened that he obeyed God when God told him to leave Ur. We do know that Abraham obeyed God.
What is very different about the New Covenant is NOT that we are to disobey God, but that He has given us a method of obeying, a way of obeying. That way is through Jesus who said that it would be better for Him to leave so that the Holy Spirit could come.
John 16:7
Jesus called the Holy Spirit the Helper.
We need this help to obey God.
We need to love and be loved by Jesus to obey God.
This is our help and our strength.
Jesus said we can do nothing without Him and to abide in Him.
John 15:5
The difference in the New Covenant is that God has placed those rules and commandments IN OUR HEART, insstead of in our mind.
Jesus said:
John 15:10
If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
Even in the New Covenant, of which Jesus is the Testifier, we are told to keep God's commandments.
This is the MORAL LAW.
The moral law will NEVER be abolished.
What was abolished is the ceremonial and civil law.
It is no longer required and Jesus has fulfilled all those rules.
You make it sound as it it's not NECESSARY to obey the 10 commandments of God that are forever.
Romans 13:8-10
Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
The laws of God - the Commandments - are not abolished, but made possible to obey.
Robert Pate
Member
There is nothing wrong with the law. Paul taught the law because there were many in Paul's congregation that needed to hear the law. But mature, born-again Christians do not need the law. It is the lawless and disobedient that need the law, 1 Timothy 1:9. Not those that are "In Christ".
The law promotes sin, Romans 7:8-10. This is probably why some religions are so corrupt. One of the purposes of the law is to bring us to Christ so that we will be justified by faith, Galatians 3:24-25.
It appears to me that you are practicing Old Covenant law and religion, which is under a curse, Galatians 3:10. This is why Paul said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. You apparently don't believe.
I think that we must all be in agreement to the fact that the epistle to the Galatians, at least, teaches us that salvation is by our faith in Jesus Christ apart from obedience to the law.
Robert Pate
Member
There are many that will agree with you but will reject the Gospel and justification by faith.
Problem is that it is not really our faith that saves us. It is Jesus that is the justifier, Romans 3:26.
Jesus justifies us by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves.
That salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ apart from obedience to the law is the doctrine of justification by faith.
How can a person both affirm and deny this doctrine?
Robert Pate
Member
To begin with, it is Jesus not our faith that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5. The justification becomes ours by faith in what he has done to justify us, which is the fulfilling of the law and the atonement for our sins.
We are justified by faith (Romans 5:1-2)...agree or disagree?
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Salvation is by faith in Jesus.
Period.
I don't know what you mean by THE LAW....
but obedience comes AFTER we're saved.
1 Peter 1:14
As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,
Acts 5:29
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.
Luke 6:46 Jesus said:
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?