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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
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The scriptures you get upset about being different have been debated upon for centuries how they should be translated.
Which verses are those? Who is debating them and what are the issues?
The diagram is based on what the God reveals of himself in the Bible and is 100% correct. No verse you have given states otherwise.
We are discussing the Bible, not man-made religion. This is a Christian forum.
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Nope, doesn't show anything except that like many others you ignore the scriptures that Jesus says he has a Father and God that is his disciples Father and God.(John 17:3; John 20:17; 1 Peter 1:3) Even after Jesus went back into heaven Jesus says he has a God.(Revelation 3:12)
People can say that Jesus is God, but the scriptures don't say that. What many people do is interpret a scripture to mean exactly the opposite that God inspired a man to write down. I'm not going to agree with that.
The Son of Man who comes into the presence of the Ancient of Days on "His" throne. As shown in Daniel 7. Jesus is the Son of Man. The Father is the ancient of Days. John is not writing about Daniel 7. His witness is of the Only begotten Son who was in the Fathers presence in the beginning and came down from heaven in flesh as the only such eye witness. The one from above speaks of what He saw and heard as one from above.
Paul E. Michael
Member
Obviously Jesus is referring to/addressing the Father in John 17:3. But He is not saying that the Father is the only person Who is the only true God. You're trying to impose your extra-Biblical assumption of unitarianism onto the text.
I don't believe Jesus is the Father.
Your message differs from Jesus's prayer. I believe Jesus came from or was sent by the Father and He gave us the Fathers words. As in God in these last days has spoken to us by His Son. None of the words states He is the Father or the time traveling Son who began as the Father's Spirit.
John 17
I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours
Paul E. Michael
Member
justbyfaith: <NO ANSWER, STILL>
justbyfaith: <NO ANSWER, STILL>
without answering either of those Yes or No questions.
I'm not adding anything to the text. Including stating Jesus is begotten.
He is stating the Father and in that regard "you" As in the only unbegotten God or only true God. Jesus is the only begotten God or the only like to like begotten Son. God and Gods Son.
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
John 1:18 King James Version 18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Paul E. Michael
Member
When you say that Jesus is saying that ONLY the Father is the only true God, you are adding your unitarian assumption to the text.
One well known verse is John1:1. Coldwell said regarding the translation of John 1:1 is that, "the absence of the article does not make the predicate indefinite or qualitative when it precedes the verb, it is indefinite in this position only when the context demands it."
So whether the predicate(theos) is definite, indefinite, or qualitative depends on the context. Consequently, this raises the concern that uncertainty with respect to the grammer may result translations based on the theology of the translator. The commonly held theology that Jesus is God naturally leads to a corresponding translation. But theology in which Jesus is subordinate to God leads to the conclusion that he is a god or divine is the proper rendering.
This is why we have translations that differ on John 1:1 from those translation that believe Jesus to be God, like, The New Testament in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome's New Translation: With a Corrected Text 1808: "and the word was a god."
The Emphatic Diaglott, interlinear reading by Benjamin Wilson
1864: "and a god was the word."
La Bible du Centenaire, L'Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel
1928: "and the Word was a divine being."
The Bible An American Translation, by J.M.P. Smith and E.J. Goodspeed 1935: "and the Word was divine."
Das Neue Testament, by Ludwig Thimme
1946: "and of a divine kind was the Word."
And these were just a few translations that show for centuries John1:1 has been debated upon, about how it should be translated.
That's what I read.
I also read Jesus is the only begotten God or begotten Son who was with the Father in the beginning. The word of life, the eternal life with the Father from the beginning. The life appeared....
The only begotten God
Col 1:19
The eternal life found in Jesus is the Father.
He never dies likewise those in Him never die. People live in the flesh who are not in Christ. He's not talking about that.
John 6:57
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
Oneness 101 by the teacher-that they may be one as we are one
John 17
My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
John 18
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
There is a reason Jesus has a God and Father - "truth"
Not done any of that.
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Nope 1 Corinthians 8:6 says, "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." At John 20:17 Jesus says he has a Father and God that is his apostles and disciples Father and God. So Paul here at 1 Corinthians 8:6 isn't contradicting Jesus. Plus you have to remember that the word lord has to be taken into context. Sarah called her husband Abraham lord, that doesn't make Abraham God. Paul said at 1 Corinthians 15: 27 that God has subjected all things under the feet of Jesus. The only person no subject to Jesus is God the person who made all things subject to Jesus, but Jesus is subject to God.1 Corinthians 15:28 So YHWH(Jehovah/Yaweh) is Jesus Lord.
If you reason from the scriptures Matthew 11:25; Luke 10:21; 2 Corinthians 6:17-18 that Jesus is God because both the Father and Jesus are called lord I'm definitely disagreeing with you. Jesus is called lord of lords because there have been those on earth called lords but that didn't make them God. All those lords are subject to Jesus and he is their lord even though those men were called lords. Also Jesus was praying at Matthew 11:25 and Luke 10:21, so was Jesus praying to himself?
At 2 Corinthians 6:17,18 the only reason the word lord is in your Bible is because like so many translations have left the personal name YHWH(Jehovah/Yahweh) out of scripture, yours has too. In my Bible at 2 Corinthians 6:17, 18 the word lord isn't there two times as it is in your Bible, my Bible has God's personal name YHWH(Jehovah/Yahweh) there two times.
The above is all very true, but doesn't really address the Trinity in its entirety, but shows snippets of it.
The above is very sarcastic of you and has no place in a thread in a very serious forum, which is Apologetics.
Apologetics attempts to show why anyone's theology is correct or incorrect....
how does the above prove either of the two?
Everything Christian is based on the bible.
Nothing I can think of at this moment relies on any other source, even doctrine I don't even agree with.
If you mean that creeds are man-made religions, then you're sorely missing what it is, exactly, that makes us Christian.
JW believe that Jesus is the son of God.
Are they Christian?
Some Christians believe Jesus is not God.
Are they correctly referred to as Christians?
Then what exactly must we believe to be considered Christian?
The doctrine of the Trinity was decided on many years ago.
All we have to do is understand it AND NOT CHANGE IT.
Some on this thread are either:
1. Trying to change it.
2. Not understanding it.
3. They don't WANT to understand it because they are not Christian in theology.
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