He comes down in the New Jerusalem and has been depicted in the prophets and in revelation as one in bodily form on His throne that angels and the host of heaven can see, bow down to, and worship. The 4 cherubim or creatures as seen in Ezekiel and well as the description of the throne are the same as John saw and testified to when he was caught up in the spirit to where God dwells, that is heaven. If you mean come down in human flesh, I agree with you. It's not possible for the Father to set aside the immense glory that seems to radiate from His bodily presence. He is the only unbegotten God. And as Jesus and the Apostles testify the God and Father of Jesus. Jesus is the only begotten God or only like to like begotten Son. col 1:19; John 1:18 and the Spirit proceeds from the Father.
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The Father the only true or unbegotten God. John 17:3
The Son the only begotten God or like to like begotten Son as in begotten of the Father before all worlds John 1:18 ; Col 1:19- The very image of the Father; The eternal life found in Jesus is the Father. John 14:10; John 6:57
The Spirit of the only unbegotten God ,not another unbegotten or begotten person, proceeds from the Father -John 15:26
While I don't deny error it's not 3 parts sharing 1 whole its stated 3 wholes sharing the 1 same essence.
You realize there can be no historical use of "a only begotten Son" or only daughter or only begotten of a parent that means unbegotten. That is unique to Jesus and was introduced in regard to the doctrine of the trinity. Begotten -not made. So they state only begotten Son but mean only unbegotten Son. I read the "only begotten Son" in regard to Jesus and the "only true God" in regard to the Father. The firstborn of all creation. I read Col 1:19 from the will of another as in a like to like begotten Son or only begotten God.
I checked out your link and, indeed, every version spells Lord in a different way, some with caps, some without.
But,yes you're right, we know from context who it's speaking about.
This is a different topic and we can't derail too much,
but look at this:
Isaiah 1:18 uses LORD in the NASB version
Isaiah 1:24 changes to the Lord God of hosts (also Isaiah 3:1)
Another interesting spelling I never really noticed.
Lord God of hosts must surely by LORD, God Almighty, El Shaddai. God Father.
Can we just forget the rest right now and could you answer the following because the above confuses me a little.
You seem to be stating that God has a bodily form.
Let's call Him God Father. El Shaddai, I think you like.
Are you saying God Father has a body?
He's not just a formless Spirit and has been depicted as one sitting on His throne.
God to Moses "no man shall see "my face" and live"
Seven names of God
- YHWH.
- Adonai.
- El.
- Elohim.
- Shaddai.
- Tzevaot.
- Ehyeh.
Randy, I don't know any theologian (yes, I know them all ! LOL) that believes God has a body.
We believe He's a spirit being.
I mean, how could He have a body?
Is He that giant daddy from Star Trek that bought the universe as a toy for his son?
Where exactly is this place called heaven where this bodily figure lives?
I mean, it could get silly.
I asked you once if the Holy Spirit was a dove.
You never replied.
Of course He isn't.
He's just DEPICTED that, represented, a way to make us understand or give us a picture of God.
Jesus had a body.
God Son.
God Father does not have a body.
Look into it.
Why did you put
Jesus=> "Father" for your last on the list?
Jesus means God Saves or God Is Salvation
Well His Spirit being has been depicted in bodily form. Thats all I know. In Daniel 7 the ancient of days seated on the throne has white hair like wool. He is someone in heaven that can be seen, approached and bowed down to. So how can anyone state He doesn't have a body from what is read? I'll just stay with He's not just a formless Spirit. We will know soon enough.
Thats who Jesus calls God.
I have not changed my outlook =>God is not just a formless Spirit.
But when you read of God's angels who are spirits going from spirit to bodily form having a meal with Abraham on the way to check out Sodom's sinfulness for themselves then reason they returned to heaven in spirit ask yourself this, "who gave them that ability?" Then you should know the how. Nothing is impossible with God in such matters. When the prophets state they see the figure like that of a man sitting on a throne. I reason that has always been Gods form and He made man in His likeness.
We believe Jesus who is the very image of God is now in a glorified body and we don't know about that body but we have been informed at our resurrection we shall be like Him in regard to the resurrected body.
Did you read this or below? There was no God before me.
God=>There was no God "formed" before me.
This is why I state about the only unbegotten God that if He has a beginning it could NOT be by any other being.
Jesus is the "only" begotten like to like Son or the "only" begotten God col 1:19 John wrote "begotten" before it was redefined to mean no beginning. And again there could be no historical such meaning of a only begotten without beginning. That concept was not John's or He would have stated so as the Spirit is very precise.
If the Father is the only unbegotten God or as Jesus states the only true God and Jesus is the only begotten God then how do you state the person of God the Spirit?
Rather than the only possible reasonable outlook. The Spirit of the only unbegotten God proceeds from that God, the Father. (His Spirit would have His nature)
You have His declaration as Jesus stated the Fathers Promise=>In the last days I will pour out "My Spirit"
Jesus speaks of that Spirit as another.
OK.
I'm getting a little confused as to what you mean so it's difficult to reply.
Let me just clarify if I understood you:
GOD IS AN UNCREATED BEING. Agreed.
YOU BELIEVE HE HAS A BODY LIKE OURS? If so, I don't agree.
And we'll have to leave it at that.
I believe God has always had this form "like the figure of a man" and He made man in His image
I note angels, (spiritual beings) go from Spirit to bodily form as they sat and ate with Abraham and would reason they returned back to heaven in spirit form. Jacob also wrestled with a angel. I implying whether that is indeed some type of spirit body or not God the creator of such beings has the same capability.
I do believe God can do whatever He wants to do.
After all, He was able to create what we see around us.
I just don't believe such a being could have a bodily form such as ours.
Don't know enough about angels....I guess they could change. They do appear in the OT and in the NT, but more as angel beings.
Also, I believe it is Jesus appearing in the OT...the Word of God.
I don't believe God the Creator has ever descended to our earth, although He certainly could if He wanted to.
He DID ascend in the form of Jesus, as the Word of God.
If we come up with any new ideas, it would be nice to hear them.
I read He allowed Moses to see His back. If you read about His form on the throne it involves a very fiery figure. Lower extremities completed masked by fire. Chest as a fire in a furnace. On the Mountain top in Moses day He was described coming down in the form of a consuming fire with clouds and billows of smoke. Rumblings and peals of thunder. Yet He told Moses no man may see His face and live. So a face. He shielded Moses with his hand when He passed by so Moses could not look on His face. So a hand.
the writer of Hebrews talks about the visit.
You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20 because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.”[c] 21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”[d]
22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
I think we just have to understand God the best we can.
I doubt I'll be convincing you to change your view and V V.
The important thing here is to honor and worship our God
and to make an effort to understand the Trinity so that we
cannot be deceived by those that do not believe it. It's pivital
to understanding Christianity.
No worries. As always I post for your consideration. And I have had the Spirit of Christ in me and knew Jesus before I even had to consider such deep theological issues such as the trinity.I think we just have to understand God the best we can.
I doubt I'll be convincing you to change your view and V V.
The important thing here is to honor and worship our God
and to make an effort to understand the Trinity so that we
cannot be deceived by those that do not believe it. It's pivital
to understanding Christianity.
As for the Father He's being is seen as fiery.
Deut 4:24
For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
Paul E. Michael
Member
Is whatever you would refer to by your phrase, "separate person", somehow different from whatever you'd just call a "person" (sans your pseudo-modifier word, "separate")? If so, how so? If not, then why do you choose to say "separate person", inflating your speech/text with your superfluous word "separate", and choose to not just say "person", instead?
When you say "He is three Gods", what three things are you calling "Gods"? If you're not referring to any things by your word, "Gods", then you are merely using your word, "Gods", in a cognitively meaningless way, so that you are failing to predicate in saying "He is three Gods". So, what three things are you calling "Gods"?
To whom are you referring by your phrase, "three Gods"? That is, whom are you saying someone believes in when you say he "believes in three Gods"?
So, sometimes by your word "Gods" you mean persons, but sometimes by your word "Gods" you do not mean persons? If so, then, when by your word "Gods" you do mean persons, which persons do you mean it? And, when by your word "Gods" you do not mean persons, what (if any) things do you mean by it?
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