God of the Bible is not all loving.

[journeyman]

That cannot be true as your definition does not include what God has Chosen Us for.

but to this man will I look even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. Isa.66:2
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Rom.4:3
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas.2:5

This is a mystery. God wants people who use the brains he gave them to consider why they should believe in Him.
The Messiah said if we follow Him, He will instruct us by the Holy Spirit. Jesus gave people lots of reasons to believe in Him.
When I asked my 12 year old grandson if he understood he understood this he said, "Yes Papa!"

Fastfreddy0:
You refuse to define LOVE so further discussion based on a lack of foundation is pointless.

The Bible defines God as love and describes His Character as loving..As an example, our King put ip with a lot of grief from people who mistreated Him. Finally they mailed them to a cross. It would be like sending your own child out to tell people God would freely forgive all their sins if they would only humble themselves, be ashamed of their sins and ask Him.
I once said this out loud at a petting zoo with all kinds of people standing around. I don't think they understood what I was saying because they were smirking, but I was talking to a donkey I was petting anyway. I think the donkey understood me.

Fastfreddy0
He is merciful ... but not to everyone without exception. You premise does not prove this aspect of your definition of God's mercy. You are simple assuming without foundation.

Our Father loved sinners who spit on him.
The list is too long to mention everything sinners did to Him,

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Mt.5:44-45

For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Rom.5:7-8

Faith cometh by hearing... billions are dead having never heard of Christ who is the focus of our faith and therefore God is not 'merciful' to everyone without exception per obvious empirical evidence.

Faith in God does come by hearing people preach. Faith in God may also come from seeing the wonder of everything made,

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Psa.19:1

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Rom.1:20

Then Peter openedhis mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecterof persons: Act.10:34

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;).....Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Rom.2:-14-15,26

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,saith the Lord; I will put my lawsinto their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Heb.8:10

The Bible God gave us says the law is to convict every man as a sinner causing a heart of repentance. That is the righteousness of the law and nowhere at any time on earth was this more apparent than when He was savagely attacked by his creation and executed . But this doesn't mean God cannot make other people aware of their sinfulness through whatever means and cannot save others who call on Him, even though don't know exact name.

(I know, you've said people can be saved by works who had not heard of God. This contradicts scripture.

No, it's exactly what the Bible says,

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. Act.10:35 (See Rom.2)

It's amazing how heretical doctrines have replaced the plain sound doctrines of what Jesus says and what the apostles taught.

 

[journeyman]

God says if you find yourself in the midst of false teaching,

Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. Rev.18:4

That sounds rather mean, but it simply means stand for what's right. No one has to leave a congregation filled with heresy. Just stand up for what the truth of the Bible says and they'll throw you out.

 

[journeyman]

If God can change His mind then all His promises are suspect.
If God can change His mind then the following verse is a lie: 1 Samuel 15:29 Also the Splendor and Glory and Eminence of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind.”

Note: I cite verses, you do not.

In other words if God says, "if you continue in sin I will destroy you but if you repent I'll save you,"
Read Jer.18, Eze.18 and the rest of the Bible showing the way God changes his mind is immutable.

 

[journeyman]

... but who caused Moses and Hezekiah to pray? Perhaps you're deist and propose that people and things operate on their own. Scripture (Job 35:7 “If you are righteous, what do you give God, Or what does He receive from your hand? 8 “Your wickedness affects only a man such as you, And your righteousness affects only a son of man [but it cannot affect God, who is sovereign]) says our wicked and righteous acts do not affect God which leads one to conclude that God caused them to pray and then decided to react to what God had caused).
Job 23:13 But He is unchangeable, and who can turn Him? And what He wants to do, that He does. Your interpretation of Moses and Hezekiah's prayers causes God to react contradictd scripture.


My definition is from the dictionary. You are welcome to give your definition of EMOTIONAL as long as you use a legitimate source and we can go with that.


God does and has done so many times.
1 Samuel 15:29 Also the Splendor and Glory and Eminence of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind.”
Job 23:13 But He is unchangeable, and who can turn Him? And what He wants to do, that He does.
Malachi 3:6a For I the Lord do not change;
... I could list a many more verses. To know God better one must study God's attributes.

You have not defined EMOTIONAL. I did define it and using my definition from the dictionary I believed I proved God is NOT EMOTIONAL because God does not change and to be EMOTIONAL means to change one's feelings. Now, if you want to supply your definition of EMOTIONAL, then we could go with that. If your definition varies from mine then I might even agree with you.

God can't have emotions because he's always happy about certain things always angry about certain things and always sad about certain things and what?

 

[journeyman]

I truly believe the church has become so dark that the second coming of Christ will be witnessed in my lifetime and I'm 66 years old. But even if he doesn't every persons "end time" is when they die.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

God certainly can use mans will to get His plans to go forth .my dad died .my brother John, being way more freewil then probably most here ,said

I would be careful with that kind of idea .

God is not served by human hands as a will . He can use a unbeliever to preach the gospel as easily as one who does have faith in respect to the unseen things of the lord .

The many in Matthew 7 .That Christ called workers of iniquity . . as in I never knew you.

He knew in advance many would claim self pride as the power to salvation. Not moved by God as it is writen but after the god of this world false pride oral traditions of dying mankind .

The Holy Spirit set up a ceremonial law as a shadow of the unseen eternal. Using a new born Ass as ceremonially unclean to represent those not redeemed. (natural unconverted mankind ) it must be redeemed with a lamb or break its neck. . .the gospel .

The witness of two parables

Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

Exodus 34:20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

The Holy Spirit in effect used the Ass to represent unbelief as a apostle sent one with prophecy the will of the Father .The Ass used as a mediator between God and man .

God has no needs but satisfies all his needs in pursuing his eternal bride . Yoked with him our burdens can be lighter with a living hope beyond the grave.

Numbers 22:27-29King James Version And when the ass saw the angel of the Lord, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

A picture of the Lord rebuking the father of lies who as a counterfeit the garden Eden the lying spirit putting words on the most beautiful creatures mouth Thou shall not die. Look at my beauty and live forever .

 

[jasonc]

I would be careful with that kind of idea .

God is not served by human hands as a will . He can use a unbeliever to preach the gospel as easily as one who does have faith in respect to the unseen things of the lord .

The many in Matthew 7 .That Christ called workers of iniquity . . as in I never knew you.

He knew in advance many would claim self pride as the power to salvation. Not moved by God as it is writen but after the god of this world false pride oral traditions of dying mankind .

The Holy Spirit set up a ceremonial law as a shadow of the unseen eternal. Using a new born Ass as ceremonially unclean to represent those not redeemed. (natural unconverted mankind ) it must be redeemed with a lamb or break its neck. . .the gospel .

The witness of two parables

Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

Exodus 34:20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

The Holy Spirit in effect used the Ass to represent unbelief as a apostle sent one with prophecy the will of the Father .The Ass used as a mediator between God and man .

God has no needs but satisfies all his needs in pursuing his eternal bride . Yoked with him our burdens can be lighter with a living hope beyond the grave.

Numbers 22:27-29King James Version And when the ass saw the angel of the Lord, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

A picture of the Lord rebuking the father of lies who as a counterfeit the garden Eden the lying spirit putting words on the most beautiful creatures mouth Thou shall not die. Look at my beauty and live forever .

I didn't say we have power over God .only that God is in control . Nothing we say or do he doesn't know or allow

 

[Mr. G Lee]

I didn't say we have power over God .only that God is in control . Nothing we say or do he doesn't know or allow

I would say we have no power . Not just power over him

 

[Hopeful 2]

I can give 20ish verses saying God does not change His mind.
You're right that there are verses that apparently show God changes His mind ... so we have a problem with scripture.
We assume/know God does not contradict Himself and He does not lie so the solution to the apparent contradictory verses is they are anthropomorphic. This is implied by the fact that the verses saying God does not change His mind (He's immutable) are didactic and verses that say God changes his mind are usually part of a narrative. That's my explanation and the explanation of many others. Now you give your explanation of the verses that contradict each other in regards to God changing His mind.


If God changes His mind then He is not all knowing or He is dumb. If God changes His mind then He is not a perfect being for He has made a mistake. If God changes His mind then His promises are not trustworthy and we have reason to question His faithfulness. You say God can change His mind and if so you have created a lot of issues with our understanding of God's supposed perfect nature.

As I wrote, it is all about the context.
Our God is unchangeable, but on some issues, will change His mind.
For instance, He puts conditions on things, and if they are not met will change His responses to men.
Saul is the best example of that.
He was given the kingdom, but when he sinned the kingdom was given to another.
Israel too was promised an everlasting kingdom, but because of their actions, their lot also changed.
In other words, "Obey, or I will change my mind about you" !

 

[Fastfredy0]

I apologize.

You're so gracious.

In my argument, "Nature" is the "essence" or "substance" of God. Its not the source of His emotions. God's nature is not the Persons of the Trinity, all three of whom have emotions.

Our bodies are the "substance or essence" of our "human nature", but our emotions don't spring from it. Our emotions spring from our "Person", the "soul in the body" that is "us".

Hmmm ...not the definition I would use.
Essense: The intrinsic or indispensable quality or qualities that serve to characterize or identify something.
Nature: the forces and processes that produce and control these phenomena
Essense and nature seem to mean the same thing to me.

I still don't follow your reasoning given the definitions you are using.

Now that I have defined the terms, do you agree God the Person has shown emotions that have passion, even though God's substance is "immutable"?

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I guess I'm not smart/wise enough to follow what you're saying. Sorry

 

[GodsGrace]

I would say we have no power . Not just power over him

Since we have no power I surely hope you believe that no one is going to hell if they sin.

...since they have no power.

 

[GodsGrace]

You're so gracious.



Hmmm ...not the definition I would use.
Essense: The intrinsic or indispensable quality or qualities that serve to characterize or identify something.
Nature: the forces and processes that produce and control these phenomena
Essense and nature seem to mean the same thing to me.

I still don't follow your reasoning given the definitions you are using.



Thanks for taking the time to explain. I guess I'm not smart/wise enough to follow what you're saying. Sorry

Hey FF
Why don't you write a dictionary!
Then you'd be obligated to reply!

We're such ignoramuses....

(Will reply to your posts when able.)

 

[Fastfredy0]

When I asked my 12 year old grandson if he understood he understood this he said, "Yes Papa!"

Yeah, my grand kids call me Papa too.

This is a mystery. God wants people who use the brains he gave them to consider why they should believe in Him.

Man does not create his own brain. Man does not create his own will. God creates everything (I can give verses if needed). Since God has given everyone without exception a depraved nature, no man can seeks God (Rom 3:11) and we cannot change our will (total depravity, many verses). Now, God comes along and tweaks the will of some people so that they are able to believe and thus be saved. The following 2 verses show clearly that it is God will by which men are saved and not the will man is born with: John 1:12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the right [the authority, the privilege] to become children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name— 13 who were born, not of blood [natural conception], nor of the will of the flesh [physical impulse], nor of the will of man [that of a natural father], but of God [that is, a divine and supernatural birth—they are born of God—spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified]. If we must do something independent of God to be saved then by definition that is a work and reason to boast. The bible is clear that we have nothing to boast about and that we are not saved by WORKS.

The Bible defines God as love and describes His Character as loving..As an example, our King put ip with a lot of grief from people who mistreated Him.

Unfortunately, the Bible is not a dictionary and does not define words found in it. Christ's work is an example of LOVE (and other things), but it not a definition. One has to go to the Greek or Hebrew dictionary to get definitions of words found in the Bible. The bible does give some of the characteristics of LOVE that can be helpful. So far, to the best of my knowledge, I am the only one to give the definition of LOVE (Agape) and cite verses that describe some of the characteristics.
Aside: I've found people won't define love because if they did their arguments would not 'hold water' IMO
Aside2: You did not define love and that is critical to the thread's question.

Our Father loved sinners who spit on him.

That's a statement without proof. There is NO VERSE in the BIBLE that describes God as loving someone that we know went to hell. Psalm 5:5 The boastful and the arrogant will not stand in Your sight; You hate all who do evil.
Again, you haven't defined love (hopefully using a Greek dictionary ... agape) and thus have not laid the necessary foundation of your assumptions.

Faith in God does come by hearing people preach. Faith in God may also come from seeing the wonder of everything made,

This is another gospel. The following verse says that anyone who does not believe in Christ is CONDEMNED. John 3:17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge and condemn the world [that is, to initiate the final judgment of the world], but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him]

There is not verse saying man can be saved by observing nature. Romans 1 saves we are without excuse because of our observance of His creation... there is nothing in Romans 1 about how to be saved.

You need to give verses. You need to explain why my verses have be interpreted wrong. You need to define terms when asked like LOVE.

 

[Fastfredy0]

For instance, He puts conditions on things, and if they are not met will change His responses to men.

Agreed... but that is not an example of God changing His mind. God laid out what He would do and He did it.

 

[Alfred Persson]

You're so gracious.



Hmmm ...not the definition I would use.
Essense: The intrinsic or indispensable quality or qualities that serve to characterize or identify something.
Nature: the forces and processes that produce and control these phenomena
Essense and nature seem to mean the same thing to me.

I still don't follow your reasoning given the definitions you are using.



Thanks for taking the time to explain. I guess I'm not smart/wise enough to follow what you're saying. Sorry

Separating what pertains to "Person" and what to "Nature" is fundamental to theology. I cited the Trinitarian definition, use of "Person" and "nature." If you really can't understand this, theological statement about God, His love and passion, is a bridge too far.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Why don't you write a dictionary!

I don't have too. A wise person will use a dictionary to avoid spurious statements. Anyone can peruse online and they're free. Took me 1 minute.
The Greek word agape (LOVE) is often translated “love” in the New Testament. How is “agape love” different from other types of love? The essence of agape love is goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight in the object of love.

So does God take "willfull delight" and "benevolence" to those He sends to hell. LMAO... I think NOT.

Will reply to your posts when able

Proof verses would be nice and explanation of why I am wrong.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't have too. A wise person will use a dictionary to avoid spurious statements. Anyone can peruse online and they're free. Took me 1 minute.
The Greek word agape (LOVE) is often translated “love” in the New Testament. How is “agape love” different from other types of love? The essence of agape love is goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight in the object of love.

So does God take "willfull delight" and "benevolence" to those He sends to hell. LMAO... I think NOT.




Proof verses would be nice and explanation of why I am wrong.

Only one word for love in good old English.
And I always tell you why you're wrong.


Perhaps tomorrow.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Since we have no power I surely hope you believe that no one is going to hell if they sin.

...since they have no power.

I was offering we have no power of our own self and there is no suffering after this suffering .Yoked with Christ the daily burden of sufferings the pangs of hell. . the wage of sin is make lighter

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us

 

[GodsGrace]

I was offering we have no power of our own self and there is no suffering after this suffering .Yoked with Christ the daily burden of sufferings the pangs of hell. . the wage of sin is make lighter

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us

Not a valid reply.

If you think we only have the power God gives us,
Then what makes us sin?

Is God's power not enough?

And if it's not enough, then why does God send persons to hell since it is HIM that does not give us enough power?

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Not a valid reply.

If you think we only have the power God gives us,
Then what makes us sin?

Is God's power not enough?

And if it's not enough, then why does God send persons to hell since it is HIM that does not give us enough power?

The spirit of lies .

Is God power not enough to do what?

There is no sufferings after this life .Hell is daily sufferings we experience living in dead bodies. Its appointed to all men to suffer and die once not to suffer and suffer with no end in sight lake Limbo or Purgatory

Yoked with Christ the daily burdens of hell is made light with a future living faith that goes beyond the grave

Tthe unbelievers return to dust and thier temporal spirit returns to Father who gave it under the letter of the Law "death never" to rise to new life .