The righteous Lord Jesus has not, does not, nor ever shall sin and trespass with His own body, nor members

[RBDERRICK]

Jhn 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things

This was true on earth in the days of His own flesh, and today with His own body on earth, and ever shall be in the days of His own body on the new earth.

Hebrews
{13:8} Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

If there are sinning and trespassing members of Jesus' own body on earth, then He the Head is sinning and trespassing with His own body...

And yet, some confessing themselves sinners and trespassers dare to say they are now members of His own body on earth.

Gal 2:17
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Christ says if anyone is found a sinner and trespasser on earth, they are not members of His own flesh and bones on earth, because He is not a sinful Head ministering sin and trespass to His own body.

Eph 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Gal
{2:20} I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Christ says that anyone sinning and trespassing on earth, cannot say that it is not I, but Christ that liveth in me, because Christ declares it is not I, nor My faith, that they are now sinning and trespassing by, nor with, nor through.

Phl 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Except sin and trespass of course...

 

[GodsGrace]

Jhn 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things

This was true on earth in the days of His own flesh, and today with His own body on earth, and ever shall be in the days of His own body on the new earth.

Hebrews
{13:8} Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

And yet some confessing themselves sinners and trespassers say they are now members of His own body on earth.

Gal 2:17
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Christ says if anyone is found a sinner and trespasser on earth, they are not members of His own flesh and bones on earth, because He is not a sinful Head ministering sin and trespass to His own body.

Eph 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Gal
{2:20} I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Christ says that anyone sinning and trespassing on earth, cannot say that it is not I, but Christ that liveth in me, because Christ declares it is not I, nor My faith, that they are now sinning and trespassing by, nor with, nor through.

Phl 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Except sin and trespass of course...

Is there a difference between being a sinner and committing a sin?

 

[RBDERRICK]

Here are a couple of expected mysterious justifications to say otherwise:

1. Soul-separation theology: By faith alone sinners and trespassers are spiritually in the body of Christ in heaven, while sinning with their bodies on earth.

Aside from the truth that Jesus' own body on earth, is the flesh and bone bodies of His members, this separation of the soul and spirit of a person in heaven, from the deeds of the body on earth, was called the 'mystical and cosmic' Christ during the psychodelic free love generation of the 1960's.

Timothy Leary may have either coined it or subscribed to it...I know it was preached by an otherworldly priest in the movie, 'The Shoes of a Fisherman'. (He got lots of bad headaches too...)

2. Sin-separation-from-condemnation theology: Once again by faith alone, it's akin to soul-separation theology, but takes more explanation:

Those committing sins and trespasses in the body of Christ, are not 'really' sinning with Him and His body, because they are no more condemned by the Head. Where there is no condemnation, there is no sin.

And so 'technically' by the law they are trespassing, but really by grace they are not condemned for it. Once again, in spirit they are not sinning, but only in flesh.

This goes way back to promising liberty of life, while ministering corruption of sin and death. It's much more common among workers of iniquity naming Christ, than the LSD Christ, but they both end in the same works on earth:

2 Tim
{2:15} Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. {2:16} But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

 

[GodsGrace]

Could you please reply to post 2?
Thanks

 

[RBDERRICK]

Is there a difference between being a sinner and committing a sin?

And so, it is agreed that no member of the body of Christ, can possibly sinning and trespassing on earth, because Jesus Christ neither sins and trespasses with His own body, nor ministers any sin or trespass to His own body.

Is there a difference between being a sinner and committing a sin?

I suppose in the world of mystery doctrine and theology, that could be possible.

I guess thankfully I don't need to answer such questions, since it is agreed only those committing sin and trespass, cannot be members of the righteous Head Jesus Christ's body on earth.

Besides, I'm not the one to ask, because I'm not someone that even thinks to ask such things. Such as being a sinner not committing sin, or a not committing sin sinner. That befuddles me about as much as Baggar Vance pondering such philosophic stuff:

Col 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Maybe we ought to ask Mystery Babylon. Afterall, she's the Great Mother of all such mystery questions.

1 Tim 6:3
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

 

[GodsGrace]

And so, it is agreed that no member of the body of Christ, can possibly sinning and trespassing on earth, because Jesus Christ neither sins and trespasses with His own body, nor ministers any sin or trespass to His own body.


I suppose in the world of mystery doctrine and theology, that could be possible.

I guess thankfully I don't need to answer such questions, since it is agreed only those committing sin and trespass, cannot be members of the righteous Head Jesus Christ's body on earth.

Besides, I'm not the one to ask, because I'm not someone that even thinks to ask such things. Such as being a sinner not committing sin, or a not committing sin sinner. That befuddles me about as much as Baggar Vance pondering such philosophic stuff:

Col 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Maybe we ought to ask Mystery Babylon. Afterall, she's the Great Mother of all such mystery questions.

1 Tim 6:3
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

Your title states that Jesus will not allow our body to sin.

So what you're affirming is that, at conversion, our free will is taken away?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Is there a difference between being a sinner and committing a sin?

No. This is why it's important to regard sin as slapping our Savior in the face,

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Your title states that Jesus will not allow our body to sin.

So what you're affirming is that, at conversion, our free will is taken away?

At conversion we go to war as the Messiah did.

 

[GodsGrace]

No. This is why it's important to regard sin as slapping our Savior in the face,

So you are also a sinless human?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

So you are also a sinless human?

I'm at war with it. He showed His grace by not annhilating people who despised Him. I'm not accusing anyone except myself. Do I love and forgive people who hate me? Because He said follow Me into battle,

we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. Rom.8:37

I think God sees us this way and where we are now is here,

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. Rev.19:13-14 KJV

 

[RBDERRICK]

Your title states that Jesus will not allow our body to sin.

This is an interestingly errorneous reading of the argument, based up a belief that the arguement condemns.

The obvious argument is that Jesus does not sin with His own body, and so anyone sinning with their own body, cannot possibly be a member of Jesus' holy body and temple on.

It rebukes any argument made by onyone sinning and trespassing, that say by their own faith alone they are present members of the body of Jesus Christ on earth.

Someone believing that therefore, naturally believe the body of Christ and their own body is always the same body.

And so thay talk like it.

The Lord has always allowed anybody to do what they will with their own body on earth, beginning with Adam. But He has never allowed anyone to sin and trespass with their own body in His own body on earth with Him.

So what you're affirming is that, at conversion, our free will is taken away?

No, as explained, you are trying to project that, by mistating the argument...

If anyone wants to believe and say they are a member of the body of Christ on earth, including while they are sinning and trespassing against the Head, then that doesn't matter to me.

It's nothing new for people to claim salvation and justification by their own faith alone, apart from what they are presently doing with their bodies...

Matthew

{6:46} And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

2Ti 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Psa 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Luk 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

By the Scripture given in the first post, Jesus puts it this way: If anyone on earth is presently sinning and trespassing against the righteous and holy Father, then that's neither the Lord's body, nor any member of His body on earth, because that's not the Head Jesus doing with His own body.

 

[Free]

Two things:

1. Paul says any who add works to the gospel, that works justify us, preaches a different gospel and is to be considered accursed (Gal 1:8). Adding works is to say that Christ's work on the cross is insufficient, which contradicts Scripture in several places.

2. John says that any who profess to be Christian and say they are without sin are self-deceived, don’t have the truth, make God a liar, and don’t have his truth in them (1 John 1:8, 10).

Those are some very strong warnings against the very things you preach. Works, even good, righteous works, have never justified anyone and never will. Good works are evidence of salvation; they do not justify, even in part.

True believers are justified by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, yet still struggle with sin. However, we confess our sins and God “is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). I'm pretty sure Peter confessed and sought God's forgiveness after Paul caught him in sin (Gal 2:11-14), but Peter wasn't an unbeliever because he sinned.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

The mercy our King showed during His ministry has been maligned.

Justice wasn't satusfied by the cross of Christ. The reason for justice was satisfied by His cross.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The mercy our King showed during His ministry has been maligned.

How so ?

Justice wasn't satisfied by the cross of Christ. The reason for justice was satisfied by His cross.

The reason for justice was satisfied, but not justice itself ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Those are some very strong warnings against the very things you preach. Works, even good, righteous works, have never justified anyone and never will. Good works are evidence of salvation; they do not justify, even in part.

As good works, deeds, are evidence of salvation, what are evil works evidence of ?
They are evidence of the need for repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, (and the destruction of the old man), and rebirth from God's seed.

 

[Free]

As good works, deeds, are evidence of salvation, what are evil works evidence of ?
They are evidence of the need for repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, (and the destruction of the old man), and rebirth from God's seed.

Paul clearly thought Peter sinned. Do you believe that Peter wasn’t saved at the time in Galatians 2? If you think he was, then that means he didn’t sin, Paul did, right, for falsely calling Peter out for sin? But, that would be sin, so wouldn’t that mean Paul wasn’t saved at that point?

So, according to you, either Peter or Paul sinned and was not saved or neither sinned and both were saved, which itself means either that sin by believers is not actually sin or you have your own definition of sin.

For someone who claims to be a believer and to be without sin is the very point John is getting at in 1 John 1:8, 10. It’s a very dangerous place to put oneself in.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Paul clearly thought Peter sinned.

I disagree with YOUR condemnation of Pater.

Do you believe that Peter wasn’t saved at the time in Galatians 2? If you think he was, then that means he didn’t sin, Paul did, right, for falsely calling Peter out for sin? But, that would be sin, so wouldn’t that mean Paul wasn’t saved at that point?

Peter elected to condescend to the visiting Jews.
Didn't Paul do the same thing when he visited Jerusalem and shave his hair, in Acts 21 ?

So, according to you, either Peter or Paul sinned and was not saved or neither sinned and both were saved, which itself means either that sin by believers is not actually sin or you have your own definition of sin.

Neither sinned, but as Paul made it clear that Peter missed a chance to show the equality of Gentiles and Jews.

For someone who claims to be a believer and to be without sin is the very point John is getting at in 1 John 1:8, 10. It’s a very dangerous place to put oneself in.

1 John 1:8, along with verses 6 and 10, are addressing those who walk in darkness-sin.
1 John 1:5, 7, and 9, address those who are, or are about to start their walk, in the light-God.
1 John 2:3-6 makes it clear just who is walking in God..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
Those walking in darkness-sin cannot say they "know Him"

 

[journeymanisnothing]

How so ?

He was regarded as a sinner and condemned as one.

The reason for justice was satisfied, but not justice itself ?

Yes because those who bore false witness against Him and those who abused Him never faced the law.

 

[Hopeful 2]

He was regarded as a sinner and condemned as one.

Oh, I thought you were referencing something in this thread.

Yes because those who bore false witness against Him and those who abused Him never faced the law.

Your earlier quote didn't make sense.
"The reason for justice was satisfied." ???
What does that mean ?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Oh, I thought you were referencing something in this thread.

That's what I've been doing. The body of Christ was never viewed in any honest sense as sinful.

Your earlier quote didn't make sense.
"The reason for justice was satisfied." ???
What does that mean ?

It means,

If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. Jn.15:22 KJV

They would have no sin...if Jesus hadn't spoken to them? Ask yourself why.