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Thanks for exposing the root of the unbiblical doctrine you promote.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
TULIP - Irresistible Grace
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Thanks for exposing the root of the unbiblical doctrine you promote.
- Jul 13, 2012
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So you believe Jesus came to save the dirt and rocks and trees of the earth?
Yes two parts to the passage.
- God loves the unsaved sinners of the world.
- God wants them to become unsaved sinners of the world to believe in His Son and everlasting life.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
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For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4
- God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved
I simply read and believe the plain and clear, undeniable, irrefutable words of truth, expressed by the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul.
That seems to be what Paul says.
Romans 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Paul separates the creation from the sons of God.
Isaiah 35:1 The wilderness and the dry land shall be glad; the desert shall rejoice and blossom like the crocus;
Except all you are reading is an uninspired translation of the Greek 2,000 years ago that is translated into today's English. Plus you are not willing to listen to other inspired writers that might help you understand what Paul meant. You grab one interpretation that you like and will not let anything change your mind.
People become Calvinists by being open minded and let all the Scriptures educate them on what is true, even if that truth goes against everything they have been taught.
Today's humanistic church: God loves everybody and sent Jesus for the purpose of saving every human being.
The Lord: Isaiah 14:24 The LORD of hosts has sworn, saying, "Surely, as I have thought, so it shall come to pass, And as I have purposed, so it shall stand
Now you are going to bring of the context and say "it was about God breaking Assyria etc. . ."
So what? That does not annul what God said as being a fact that stands for everything God says or purposes.
If you believe God says that He desires all people without exception to be saved, then that will come to pass.
But we know that it doesn't come to pass, so that cannot be what God has purposed.
If Paul meant that God desires all kinds of people from every nation and language and tribe to be saved, then that will come to pass, and that is exactly what Scripture tells us.
Like you I believe it would be fair for God to save everybody. But who am I to talk back against God. So I let Scripture change my mind about what is fair. That makes me a Calvinist.
brightfame52
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The scripture is uninspired?
This same Paul, writes to this same Timothy by the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, these words…
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 2 Timothy 3:16
Here is something else, Paul writes about, to Timothy by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit…
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1
Do you believe the Holy Spirit would undermine the validity of the scriptures in the Bible by saying…you are reading an uninspired translation of the Greek?
Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:1-4
- Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.
Do you believe God desires for us to pray for all men, including those in authority?
Yes
No
- For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Do you believe God desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth?
Yes
No
brightfame52
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No. God can desire or will for the world to be saved but each person must choose to believe.
Only those who believe will be saved.
- whoever believes in Him
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
brightfame52
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So basically all God can do is wish or hope for people to be saved.
This fits perfectly with the liberal, humanistic church idea that God cannot or will not ever violate a persons will.
In Genesis 20, Abraham is afraid of Abimelech and so tells him that Sarah is his sister. So Abimelech takes Sarah to be in his harem. After a time, God comes to Abimelech in a dream and tells him that Sarah is another man's wife.
Abimelech says "I didn't touch her." (paraphrasing - see verses 4 & 5). And God says to Abimelech "it was I who kept you from sinning against me. Therefore I did not let you touch her"
Sounds like God violated Abimelech's will.
Here is the background of why Abraham passed Sarah off as his sister.
Geneses 12:10 Now there was a famine in the land. So Abram went down to Egypt to sojourn there, for the famine was severe in the land. 11 When he was about to enter Egypt, he said to Sarai his wife, “I know that you are a woman beautiful in appearance, 12 and when the Egyptians see you, they will say, ‘This is his wife.’ Then they will kill me, but they will let you live. 13 Say you are my sister, that it may go well with me because of you, and that my life may be spared for your sake.”
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Where did I ever say “man’s will trumps God’s will”?
You blatantly misrepresent me.
God can desire or will for the world to be saved but each person must choose to believe.
Only those who believe will be saved.
- whoever believes in Him
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
Do you deny the words of Jesus who plainly taught us that whoever believes in Him would have everlasting life?
Believing is a choice that each person must choose to make.
God allows each person to choose to believe or not.
- Jul 13, 2012
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God desires that all men be saved.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4
God loves the people of the world and desires for them to be saved.
However, the scriptures are clear that man must believe in order to be saved.
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12
- lest they should believe and be saved
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brightfame52
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Therefore God must also desire that all the people of the world hear the gospel.
Approximately 3.23 billion people worldwide are considered unreached, meaning they have little to no chance of ever hearing about Jesus and the Gospel. This indicates that a significant portion of the global population has not heard the Gospel message.
sources:
eastwest.org and us.aimint.org
Genesis 18:14 Is anything too hard for the LORD?
It seems that it is too hard for your lord to simply make it so that people at least hear the gospel.
Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.
Seems like the Lord could direct enough people's steps to get the gospel to everybody, especially with all the technology we have today.
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Do angels preach the gospel?
Does the Lord give dreams and visions whereby He speaks to people?
Technology is one way, however God is not limited to man’s technology.
The Lord commissioned His disciples to teach their disciples the things He taught.
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matthew 28:19-20
brightfame52
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So you are saying that every human being:
Natives in the Amazon Jungle before any Christian went there.
Australian Aborigines before the English discovered them 5 or 6 hundred years ago.
The Mayan's, Aztec's etc, etc, for thousands of years back.
All had angels preach to them and if not that, God gave them all dreams and visions.
That's what you call wishful thinking.
Psalm 147:19 He declares His word to Jacob, His statutes and His judgments to Israel. 20 He has not dealt thus with any nation; And as for His judgments, they have not known them. Praise the LORD!
David is almost bragging that God gave His Word and statutes to Israel and has not done that for any other nation.
Paul seems to agree:
Act 14:16 who in bygone generations allowed all nations to walk in their own ways.
Yes now, that the Messiah has come He commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel, but that does not compute that God sent all these people mentioned above special miraculous revelation.
