Inherint contradictions teaching Faith Alone

[JLB]

They don't inherit the kingdom of God because the person who practices such things is an unbeliever. And we all know unbelievers don't inherit the kingdom.

A true born again believer can not practice "such things" because God's seed abides in him and he is born of God:

Paul is exhorting Christians to walk in the Spirit, not unbelievers.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:16

Christians, those who are in Christ, must learn to walk according to the Spirit, if not they will end up practicing the works of the flesh.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

It’s a choice each Christian must make.

 

[JLB]

9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. John 3:9

But you keep inventing this fictitious person who is born of God and who has God's seed remaining in him but who goes on sinning. As you can see, that person does not exist. A born again believer would have to go back to unbelief in order to practice sin again. Assuming that's even possible to do.

Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
1 John 3:6-9

Many Born Again Christians, people who are in Christ, end not remaining in Him because they don’t keep His commandments, which is just another way of saying sin.

They key is found in verse 6.

Whoever abides in Him does not sin.
Whoever does not sin abides in Him.

Everyone who desires to remain in Christ can do so, if they keep His Commandment's, which are not burdensome to those who have the Spirit.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7

• He who practices righteousness is righteous,

It’s about sowing to the Spirit.

Cultivating habits that the Spirit leads us and teaches to develop.

Investing our time towards the things of the Spirit that we may reap a harvest of eternal life.

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

• but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

 

[mailmandan]

It's crystal clear.

They don't inherit the kingdom of God because the person who practices such things is an unbeliever. And we all know unbelievers don't inherit the kingdom.

A true born again believer can not "practice such things" because God's seed abides in him and he is born of God:

9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. John 3:9

But you keep inventing this fictitious person who is born of God and who has God's seed remaining in him but who goes on sinning. As you can see, that person does not exist. A born again believer would have to go back to unbelief in order to practice sin again. Assuming that's even possible to do.

Amen! In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, we see a similar list of sins that are practiced by the unrighteous. Do you not know that the unrighteous (key word) will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. In contrast with the righteous in verse 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[JLB]

Amen! In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, we see a similar list of sins that are practiced by the unrighteous. Do you not know that the unrighteous (key word) will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. In contrast with the righteous in verse 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:5-7


It’s clear who are righteous.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7

 

[JLB]

Amen! In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, we see a similar list of sins that are practiced by the unrighteous. Do you not know that the unrighteous (key word) will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. In contrast with the righteous in verse 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

I have asked this to several people.

Do you mind answering a question?

Do you confess your sins in order to be forgiven and cleansed?

Some people believe all their future sins are forgiven and therefore have no need to confess them.

 

[mailmandan]

For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:5-7

It’s clear who are righteous.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7

It's also clear who is unrighteousness. 1 John 3:8 - The one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

 

[mailmandan]

I have asked this to several people.

Do you mind answering a question?

Do you confess your sins in order to be forgiven and cleansed?

Some people believe all their future sins are forgiven and therefore have no need to confess them.

In regard to 1 John 1:9, notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10). 1 John 1:9 is not about confessing each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast," as some people seem to teach.

In regard to past, present and future sins being forgiven. Acts 13:39 - And by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

 

[GodsGrace]

Exactly. Those who promote salvation by faith and works can't seem to understand that we do not remove good works from the Christian life. We just put them in their proper place, subsequent to regeneration and salvation. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

So Unbelievers are supposed to do good works!

Great christian theology!

 

[GodsGrace]

It's obvious what you believe and I was addressing JLB, who appeared to think I may not be hearing folks correctly about what they believe.

You were speaking about me
And
it would be nice to tag a member that you mention.

 

[GodsGrace]

In regard to 1 John 1:9, notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10). 1 John 1:9 is not about confessing each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast," as some people seem to teach.

In regard to past, present and future sins being forgiven. Acts 13:39 - And by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Wow.
And there you have it.
Unfortunately, I just fell upon the above when posting a reply.

No wish to further discuss with you, just 2 comments:

1. There's a difference between The Law and good works.
2. EVERY sin must be confessed.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7

• He who practices righteousness is righteous

The person who practices righteousness is showing that he is righteous. But you are reading it to say you make yourself righteous by practicing righteousness.

 

[mailmandan]

So, Unbelievers are supposed to do good works!

Great christian theology!

When did I say that? Matthew 7:17 - A good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. Unbelievers have not been saved by grace through faith and are not God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10) So much for a bad tree bearing good fruit.

 

[mailmandan]

Wow.
And there you have it.
Unfortunately, I just fell upon the above when posting a reply.

So, you fail to read 1 John 1:9 in contrast to 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10.

No wish to further discuss with you, just 2 comments:

Easier said than done. You already said that you will no longer reply to me then you keep replying.

1. There's a difference between The Law and good works.

In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Now please explain to me which good works could a Christian accomplish which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18)

When it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot dissect good works from the law. So, the saved by "these" works (good works) but just not "those" works (works of the law) argument is bogus. Paul covers works in general that we are not saved by. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

2. EVERY sin must be confessed.

So, you have kept an inventory of every sin you have ever committed and confessed each one individually and believe that is what keeps you saved? Great theology. Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[mailmandan]

The person who practices righteousness is showing that he is righteous. But you are reading it to say you make yourself righteous by practicing righteousness.

Exactly. Cart before the horse theology which culminates in works righteousness. A sheep does not go baa, baa, in order to become a sheep but because it is a sheep.

 

[mailmandan]

You were speaking about me
And
it would be nice to tag a member that you mention.

I did tag you in post #948.

 

[mailmandan]

For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:5-7

So, we see a description of the unrighteous in Ephesians 5:5-7 and the righteous are told to not participate or even associate with them/keep away from those kinds of people. Now in verse 8 we see a description of the righteous. For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light.

 

[Rodger]

So your religion teaches that there is no need to obey Jesus Christ as LORD?

So your denomination teaches you that there is no need to walk according to the Spirit rather than walking according to the flesh?

Here is what is said by the Apostle John

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Also about His doctrine -

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2 John 9


Paul teaches us that we must learn to walk according to the Spirit or we will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17

If we don’t learn to walk according to the Spirit, then we will practice the works of the flesh.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Is this not clear?

Here is who will receive eternal salvation according to the scriptures…

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

• eternal salvation to all who obey Him

Question:

Do you confess your sins so that you can be forgiven?

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

Quite a subtle insult. Surprising coming from a moderator.

I have NO religion! I am a born again believer in the Lord Jesus and that is a PERSON not a religion.

Also, I do not make the Bible a "Cafeteria" understanding, but take it as it is written.

If you choose to believe that YOU can keep all of the commands of the Lord Jesus, all 613 of them...them knock yourself out brother.

You are argueing over something that is not debatable. "YOU" are actually promoting a "Works" salvation and I am not. I am promoting a GRACE based salvation just as the Bible teaches.

Ephesians 2:8-9 is clearly worded and unequivocal: “It is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.”
But YOU have chosen to ignore the Scriptures and ADD to them what YOU want them to say.

I understand completely that "Your Religion" has taught you to do something to stay saved. That is really sad because inspite of your thoughts and post, there are NO Scriptures that say that.

So then, by you own words you Are taking credit for your believing, and staying saved because YOU are obedient. YOU will not admit it but you are boasting.

So then, then I ask you what makes you think that if God, who granted that you believe, appointed you to eternal life, chose you before the foundation of the world for salvation, predestined you and said he will lose none, we’ll let you slip through his fingers becasue you did not obey Him in keeping all of His commanments?

When he said it was his will that those who believe would not be lost and would be raised on the last day in John 6:37-40, your RELIGION told you to ADD ......Obedience to your salvation.

 

[Rodger]

I believe those of us who are in Him, that are unfruitful, are removed by the Father.


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away…
John 15:1-2

Do you disagree?

I disagree with you. Do you believe that this verse in John 15 means that we can remove all the others that say something opposite?

Jesus taught that once a person truly accepted Christ and became part of his sheep they would never perish.

Jn.10:27-30 says,
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give to them eternal life and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, who gave them to me is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.”

Earlier in Jn.6:44 Jesus had also taught eternal security when he said,
“No man can come to me unless the Father who has sent me draws him and I will raise him up at the last day.”

That means that everyone that genuinely comes to Christ by faith, the Father had drawn him and he will make it to heaven. That is an absolute statement of truth. A person is drawn to Christ, he or she comes to Christ by faith, he or she is raised up on the last day.

It seems to me that you have failed in your teaching ministry by ignoreing the CONTEXT of JOhn 15 in the text you posted. The context is.................
Jesus is talking to the disciples about what has just happened with Judas Iscariot and others like him. Judas had attached himself to Jesus, but did not produce fruit and did not abide in Christ. He was a disciple only outwardly and the fact that he was not a disciple inwardly was shown by his lack of fruit-bearing. He did not abide or remain in Christ. He turned away from Christ. Judas was a "make believer".
Jesus spent his whole ministry speaking about this problem (Matt.7:15-23, Matt.13:3-9) He taught that there would be those who would attach themselves to Christ as outward disciples, but would not truly accept him as Savior. They would call themselves disciples of Jesus even though they were not saved.

Remember, the apostles were Jews who grew up in a culture where the outward was most important. They needed to understand that a person could become a disciple outwardly and not be a true disciple.

The best explanation, the ONLY one is that these warnings are directed toward professing Christians who appear, at least outwardly, to be connected to the Vine but were never saved to begin with. They are branches in the vicinity of the Vine, but there is a disconnect. Judas Iscariot is a good example of a false professor.

 

[mailmandan]

You are arguing over something that is not debatable. "YOU" are actually promoting a "Works" salvation, and I am not. I am promoting a GRACE based salvation just as the Bible teaches.

I understand completely that "Your Religion" has taught you to do something to stay saved.

So then, by you own words you Are taking credit for your believing and staying saved because YOU are obedient. YOU will not admit it but you are boasting.

When he said it was his will that those who believe would not be lost and would be raised on the last day in John 6:37-40, your RELIGION told you to ADD ......Obedience to your salvation.

So, it's not just me.

Our works KEEP US SAVED.
This is the simplest way to state it.

OBEDIENCE KEEPS US SAVED.
Disobedience will not keep us saved.

If we believe and obey, we will be saved.
If we believe and do not obey, we will not be saved.

Just as I stated in post #921. What I keep hearing from certain folks on this forum is what I refer to as "type 2 works salvation" or salvation by works at the back door. "Obedience maintains their salvation, works keep them saved, salvation preserved based on the merits of their performance." Certain folks also seem to confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture, and the end result is salvation by works.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Cheap Grace
Easy Believism

These are not terms I made up....
It is spoken of about person that believe their faith, and nothing else added, will save them.

But this is not what the NT teaches.
It teaches faith plus something.
Not posting what else again since it apparently makes no difference since you have NEVER replied to it.

You just keep repeating what comforts you.

And, there's nothing wrong with being Catholic.

So in all of this, after being mad that I made a reference to us being 'non-Catholic', you didn't even bother to tell me how I am to refer to you?

What IS offensive is that you believe all PROTESTANTS believe as you do.

Well, let's see. You say you're not Catholic. That would make you a Protestant, like me, but it's crystal clear to me that you do not believe as I do. So where does that leave your argument that I think all Protestants believe as I do? And, for your information, I do not believe as the 'Cheap Grace' and 'Easy Believism' Protestants do (oh, and by the way, you left out "Free Grace" in that group).

Most protestants believe in good works for God.

That would be me.

I believe 100% that the Christian must do good works for God. I just don't believe that's true for the reason you think it's true.

And they make no qualms about it.

No, there are many of us Protestants who make a qualm about the theology that a person is declared righteous, and thus eligible to enter the kingdom of God, as wages God owes them for the righteous work they have performed.