- Jul 13, 2012
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As for me........"ALL".
Romans 3:23 clears this question up for you.........
"ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
So far I haven’t seen any mention of anyone being depraved.
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As for me........"ALL".
Romans 3:23 clears this question up for you.........
"ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
As for me........"ALL".
Romans 3:23 clears this question up for you.........
"ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
"Ecclesiastes 7:20"
Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.
1 Kings 8:46........
When they sin against You--for there is no one who does not sin--and You become angry with them and deliver them to an enemy who takes them as captives to his own land, whether far or near,
Your comments are very interesting.
Let me ask you this: (we might be speaking past each other - it happens often)
If you want to call a believer A SINNER....
Then what's the difference between an unbelieving sinner
and a believer that's a sinner?
Are they both SINNERS?
Are we NOT a child of God that can sin? (1 John chapters 1 and 2)
I think we probably agree.
1. We have original sin, therefore we are sinners.
2. We choose to do things we know to be wrong therefore we are sinners.
Agreed.Because of this we are under the law of sin and death. We sin therefore we die.
Jesus died and was resurrected.
This did away with the law of sin and death all that's left is whether you have faith in Christ or not. If we believe in Christ our sins are forgiven. If we don't believe in Christ our sins are not forgiven.
ALL sins of the believer are forgiven, past, present and future.
Not sure I agree 100%, but it would change the topic at hand.Sins of omission, sins of commission, sins done deliberately, sins done unknowingly all are forgiven the moment you believe.
That is Jesus's work on the cross.
Sin causing death is no longer an issue ever again.
Agreed.Sin in the life of a believer is dealt with through the process we call sanctification. By this process we are made more like Christ. Bad behaviors fall away good behaviors come in. We still commit sins and though they may hinder our relationship with God at times they are leaving our lives though there are often consequences.
You're referring to Romans 7....Paul referred to sins he committed as "sin living in me"
Christians can, do and will sin.
Agreed.Sin is incongruent with the Christian life it is not impossible in the Christian life. Also, as we become more mature we begin to realize how prevalent sin is in our human nature we start question our motives and find often that God is not the center of our decision making. The life of a true believer in Christ is a life of constantly allowing the Holy Spirit to deal with our sin and perfect in us a Christ like charecter.
We surely are not perfect, and will not be as you've stated.We are already made perfect in God's sight even though we are not yet perfect and will not be until we have been raised imperishable.
Brother, it is obvious that you are an educated man able to think clearly and make determinations.Still no mention of anyone being totally depraved or depraved.
By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Hebrews 11:6
Noah seemed to be mentioned as righteous.
Brother, it is obvious that you are an educated man able to think clearly and make determinations.
Why then do you work so hard at trying to make others accept some of your "obscure" opinions.
Example is that you said....."Still no mention of anyone being totally depraved".
IMHO, I believe that you know very well that the specific words "Depravity of Man" is not in the Bible and is a teaching that stemmed from John Calvin. However.....No matter which name you use to refer to “total depravity,” the fact remains that when properly understood it is an accurate description of what the Bible does teach on this important subject.
The total depravity of man is seen throughout the Bible.
Jermiah 17:9.........
"Man’s heart is “deceitful and desperately wicked” = Depraved.
Ephesians 2:1-5 also teaches us that man is born dead in transgression and sin =Depraved.
Romans 1:18 tells us that men suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness and continue to willfully live in sin. Because they are totally depraved, this sinful lifestyle seems right to men so they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness and their mind is “hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is unable to do so” in Romans 8:7.
So, when one considers even these few verses, it becomes abundantly clear the Bible does indeed teach that fallen man is “totally depraved,” because sin affects all of him including his mind, will and emotions so that “there is none who does good, no not one” in Romans 3:12.
Now, my question is, with all due respect, .....why do you personally go out of your way to draw conclusion that appear to make you a "Skeptic" of the Word of God?
Can you list for me the Bible Scriptures that say specifically TRINITY?So far I haven’t seen any mention of anyone being depraved.
I think we probably agree.
1. We have original sin, therefore we are sinners.
2. We choose to do things we know to be wrong therefore we are sinners.
Can you list for me the Bible Scriptures that say specifically TRINI
Can you list for me the Bible Scriptures that say specifically TRINITY?
Can you list for me the Bible Scriptures that say specifically RAPTURE?
Can you list for me the Bible Scripture that say specifically PREMILLENNIALISM?
Can you list for me the Bible Scripture that say specifically ALTER CALL?
Can you list for me the Bible Scripture that say specifically REVERENDS?
What I am showing you is that the "Skeptical" idea of rejecting a Bible doctrine where the specific word is not in the Bible is just not an acceptable argument in any way.
I suggest that you do some study on the meaning of "Implied Truth".
Again, with all respect to you as a person and a believer, you are presenting your self more as a "Philosopher" than a teacher of the Word of God.
Philosophy is the process of a blind man in a room painted black with the lights off trying to find the door knob.
Your argument is again based in skepticism instead of educated knowledge.Like I said, Noah seemed to be declared righteous by God.
By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Hebrews 11:7
You lump man into one big category of totally depraved.
I disagree.
Each person has indeed sinned and fallen short.
But you have said that all mankind in totally depraved and I don’t see that term used in scripture.
If Noah was totally depraved then why does scripture say he was righteous, the righteousness which is according to faith ?
Brother, I do not agree with you. I do not want to argue with you but Clearly, you question the Word of God. Clearly you have an agenda to prove that there are contradictions in the Bible.I use scripture.
Noah seemed to be declared righteous by God.
By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Hebrews 11:7
You lump man into one big category of totally depraved.
I disagree.
Each person has indeed sinned and fallen short.
But you have said that all mankind is totally depraved and I don’t see that term used in scripture.
Question for you -
If Noah was totally depraved then why does scripture say he was righteous, the righteousness which is according to faith ?
Your argument is again based in skepticism instead of educated knowledge.
Your assumption is that the Bible says in Gen 6:9 ......."This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God."....therefore because he was perfect there can be no total depravity of all people.
By your question you do not seem to understand that when Adam and Eve sinned, sin was then imputed to all humanity. NO WHERE does the Bible exempt Noah! Every generation from Adam forward can and must lay the blame for its total corruption at the feet of Adam.
And apparently you have not considered Genesis 6:12 which provides God’s assessment of the spiritual condition of Noah’s generation like this: “And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth” .
So then, when we look deeper at Gen. 6:9 we see that the Hebrew word translated “just” is from the Hebrew word tsaddiyq, which means just, lawful, righteous.
Then we see that The Hebrew word translated “perfect” is from the Hebrew word tamiym, which means complete, whole, entire, upright, without blemish.
So now we can correctly understand that Noah was perfect in his generations means that he was righteous in contrast to the wickedness around him and he was affected with sin just as were all men due to the original sin of Adam and Eve.
Brother, I do not agree with you. I do not want to argue with you but Clearly, you question the Word of God. Clearly you have an agenda to prove that there are contradictions in the Bible.
It is not possible to say that all of humanity is not depraved in light of the hundreds of Scriptures that say....."ALL have sinned....we are filthy rags....the heart of man is evil".
If you use the Bible.....and you insist on specific words....the post the Scripture where Noah is said to be exempt from original sin of Adam!
Allow me to Explain the difference between Godhead and Trinity. This will also explain why you are so skeptical.No which is why I don’t use that word.
I used Godhead.
I have already answered that question for you.Do you believe Noah was totally depraved?
By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Hebrews 11:7
Allow me to Explain the difference between Godhead and Trinity. This will also explain why you are so skeptical.
The difference between the two is that "Godhead" is a term that refers to the nature or essence of God.
However, the word Trinity is a term that is used to describe the relationships between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Here then comes the explination of where YOU are coming from and it is that the Trinity doctrine teaches that there is ONE God who manifests Himself in 3 distinct persons, each with equal attributes and roles.
The "Oneness Pentacostal" denomination rejects the Trinity and claims that God is ONE person who reveals Himself in different modes.
I have already answered that question for you.
"They (Adam and Eve, GT) being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed, and the same death in sin and corrupted nature conveyed to all their posterity, descending from them by ordinary generation. From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions." Source: Westminster Confession of Faith-Chapter VI.
Do you believe and accept that understanding?
Again my brother, you are playing with words. Bible doctrine does not hinge on what it sounds like to you.I have already stated that all have sinned and come short …
My question is about the label of totally depraved.
The scripture scripture says Noah became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
That doesn’t sound like Noah was totally depraved to me.
Again my brother, you are playing with words. Bible doctrine does not hinge on what it sounds like to you.
As stated in the Westminster Confession, All have inherited the original sin of Adam and Eve.
John Wesley, 1703-1791, was "a leader of the Evangelical Revival and founder of the Methodist Church in Great Britain and America..." Source: (The World Book Encyclopedia, Vol. 21, p. 352)
"In regard to the doctrine of Total Hereditary Depravity, he said, "We are condemned before we have done good or evil, under the curse before we know what it is." (Sermons on Original Sin, p. 340).