Inherint contradictions teaching Faith Alone

If a man says he is without sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him.

I tell you this so that you do not sin, but if you do sin, you have an advocate before the Father.

Any "christian" who claims to never sin is a liar and doesn't understand what the depravity of being human is.

If you are a living human being you have, are and will sin.
We ARE sin?
Is this what you believe?
It's a sad belief onlysaved....

This is what John said.

1 John 3:1 NASB
1 See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be
called children of God; and such we are.
 
Sin lies at the door of people giving into it. Cain, who was of the evil one, demonstrated an evil heart by evil deeds, which includes murdering his brother and while Abel demonstrated a righteous heart by his righteous deeds (1 John 3:12); and that Abel offered his sacrifice by or "out of" faith and Cain did not. Cain's sacrifice was evidence of his lack of faith. Abel's offering was a demonstration of his faith in regard to sacrifice, which was not demonstrated by Cain's offering.
WHERE does Genesis 4 state anything of what you've written above?
Those that add to scripture will eventually come to believe their own understanding of scripture instead of what is clearly written.

Genesis 4:3-4
Both Cain and Able bring offerings to the Lord.
they both knew the Lord and brought an offering to Him.

It only states that God had regard for Abel and his offering and not for Cain's,,,
which is what angered Cain. We cannot know why. Abel brought a CHOICE offering.

They both apparently believed in God and knew to make a sacrifice to Him.

Genesis 4:7
God tells Caine IF YOU DO WELL, will you not be accepted?
And if you DO NOT DO WELL,,,,temptation will be waiting at the door.
It's ready to damage you if you do not MASTER IT.

Cain did not obey God and allowed his anger to fester,,,which lead to his killing of his brother.

We learn from this account that we must learn to control ourselves and not let sin enter into our heart.

Once again,,,,scripture speaks of DOING WELL, as God commands.
Cain most probably felt that Abel's sacrifice was BETTER than his.

No talk of one having faith and one not having faith.
No talk of one being saved and one not being saved.

Temptation is waiting at the door.
"If you DO WELL, you will be accepted."
Genesis 4:7
 
Very interesting.....
But you've been stating that it is our OUTWARD actions that show our heart.
You claim James 2:24 is referring to what can be seen by men...
that those that ARE SAVED will show good deeds.

So, by that reasoning, Judas was indeed saved because his outward actions...good deeds for Jesus...
evidenced that he was saved.

Can't have it both ways.

Incorrect theology is always exposed sooner or later.
There is nothing in scripture that proves Judas was saved. Not all outward actions are produced out of faith. Just ask these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 who pointed to their outward actions expecting to receive eternal life yet Jesus never knew them and told them to depart from Him.

Just going through the motions of being a follower of Christ does not prove one is saved.

Judas cannot be a believing saint and an unbelieving, unclean devil at the same time. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) You can't have it both ways.
 
WHERE does Genesis 4 state anything of what you've written above?
Those that add to scripture will eventually come to believe their own understanding of scripture instead of what is clearly written.

Genesis 4:3-4
Both Cain and Able bring offerings to the Lord.
they both knew the Lord and brought an offering to Him.

It only states that God had regard for Abel and his offering and not for Cain's,,,
which is what angered Cain. We cannot know why. Abel brought a CHOICE offering.

They both apparently believed in God and knew to make a sacrifice to Him.

Genesis 4:7
God tells Caine IF YOU DO WELL, will you not be accepted?
And if you DO NOT DO WELL,,,,temptation will be waiting at the door.
It's ready to damage you if you do not MASTER IT.

Cain did not obey God and allowed his anger to fester,,,which lead to his killing of his brother.

We learn from this account that we must learn to control ourselves and not let sin enter into our heart.

Once again,,,,scripture speaks of DOING WELL, as God commands.
Cain most probably felt that Abel's sacrifice was BETTER than his.

No talk of one having faith and one not having faith.
No talk of one being saved and one not being saved.

Temptation is waiting at the door.
"If you DO WELL, you will be accepted."
Genesis 4:7
It was by or "out of" faith that Abel offered a sacrifice. Abel's faith was evidenced by obedience to God's requirement for sacrifice by which he obtained witness that he was righteous. (Hebrews 11:4)

Once again, Cain, who was of the evil one, demonstrated an evil heart by evil deeds, which includes murdering his brother and while Abel demonstrated a righteous heart by his righteous deeds (1 John 3:12); and that Abel offered his sacrifice by or "out of" faith and Cain did not. Do you deny 1 John 3:12?

Cain's sacrifice was evidence of his lack of faith. Abel's offering was a demonstration of his faith in regard to sacrifice, which was not demonstrated by Cain's offering. Cain did not do well.
 
If a man says he is without sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him.

I tell you this so that you do not sin, but if you do sin, you have an advocate before the Father.

Any "christian" who claims to never sin is a liar and doesn't understand what the depravity of being human is.

If you are a living human being you have, are and will sin.
You are very correct! Agreed.
 
Pretty vague.

You seem to lump every human being into one group?

Why?

There are unregenerate human beings.

There are born again Christians, who are babes.

There are born again Christians who are adolescents.

There are born again Christians who are mature.

There are born again Christians who have the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

There are born again Christians who have the baptism with the Spirit but are immature.


Then they are born again Christians who have the baptism with the Holy Spirit who actually walk according to the Spirit and have crucified themselves by the Spirit.


Which particular group are you saying are depraved?
As for me........"ALL".

Romans 3:23 clears this question up for you.........
"ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".


"Ecclesiastes 7:20"
Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

1 Kings 8:46........
When they sin against You--for there is no one who does not sin--and You become angry with them and deliver them to an enemy who takes them as captives to his own land, whether far or near,
 
There is nothing in scripture that proves Judas was saved. Not all outward actions are produced out of faith. Just ask these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 who pointed to their outward actions expecting to receive eternal life yet Jesus never knew them and told them to depart from Him.

Just going through the motions of being a follower of Christ does not prove one is saved.

Judas cannot be a believing saint and an unbelieving, unclean devil at the same time. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) You can't have it both ways.
Actually, there is not one single Scripture that validates Judas as being saved. It is "assumed" because he is listed among the 12 disciples.

In John 6:70-71 we can see what Jesus said.......
“Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil? Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him."

Here Jesus called Judas a devil. This reveals that Judas was a tare. Judas was an apostate. He had full knowledge about Christ and still did not believe. He only looked like a real follower to the other disciples. The fact that Judas was influenced by Satan is reported by these passages.
 
Very interesting.....
But you've been stating that it is our OUTWARD actions that show our heart.
You claim James 2:24 is referring to what can be seen by men...
that those that ARE SAVED will show good deeds.

So, by that reasoning, Judas was indeed saved because his outward actions...good deeds for Jesus...
evidenced that he was saved.

Can't have it both ways.

Incorrect theology is always exposed sooner or later.
I agree 100% with you in that "Incorrect theology is always exposed sooner or later".

Just as Matthew 7:21-24 described people in Jesus day, it does the vaery same thing today.

Yes.....Judas was a follower of Jesus for 3 and 1/2 years. However, he failed to see the complete truth of who Jesus is and acknowledge Him as the Savior, the Son of God, the Redeemer, the Messiah, God in the flesh! There is not one single Scripture to suggest that Judas was born again.

There is not one single Scripture that says Judas responded to the salvation available to Him.

He went through all the motions, he evidently said all the right words, had the right passwords on his computer and probably had the Lords picture on his phone, BUT there is NO record of a heart transformation so as to confirm that he was born again.

Speaking only for me, before I would place my feet in a concrete form based on something that is not there, I would think twice about my stance.

IMHO, we can clearly see that Judas's life warns us that mere knowledge of Jesus isn't enough for salvation.

To be saved, born again, It's essential to trust in Him as Savior and Lord, allowing His truth to transform our hearts and lives and make a life commitment to him. Knowing about Jesus without genuine faith leads to spiritual emptiness and, ultimately, destruction. which is exactly what James 2:24 is saying to us. Good works are the result of being born again!

Judas's story compels us to examine our own hearts and ensure that we don't just know about Jesus, but that we trust in Him completely for salvation and follow Him wholeheartedly.
 
WHERE does Genesis 4 state anything of what you've written above?
Those that add to scripture will eventually come to believe their own understanding of scripture instead of what is clearly written.

Genesis 4:3-4
Both Cain and Able bring offerings to the Lord.
they both knew the Lord and brought an offering to Him.

It only states that God had regard for Abel and his offering and not for Cain's,,,
which is what angered Cain. We cannot know why. Abel brought a CHOICE offering.

They both apparently believed in God and knew to make a sacrifice to Him.

Genesis 4:7
God tells Caine IF YOU DO WELL, will you not be accepted?
And if you DO NOT DO WELL,,,,temptation will be waiting at the door.
It's ready to damage you if you do not MASTER IT.

Cain did not obey God and allowed his anger to fester,,,which lead to his killing of his brother.

We learn from this account that we must learn to control ourselves and not let sin enter into our heart.

Once again,,,,scripture speaks of DOING WELL, as God commands.
Cain most probably felt that Abel's sacrifice was BETTER than his.

No talk of one having faith and one not having faith.
No talk of one being saved and one not being saved.

Temptation is waiting at the door.
"If you DO WELL, you will be accepted."
Genesis 4:7
I do not see where "mailman" distorted Scripture. I do see where he did a deeper study of "why" Cains offering was refused.

Over years, great men of God had worked to explain this act.

Was it the "type" of offering.....blood verses fruits/food?
Was it the quality....the food was not eatable or spoiled?
Was it the quantity....not enough food?
Was it because of the HEART of the person making the offering as God know all of our thoughts?

Genesis 1:2-7....
"Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the Lord. Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering, but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell. So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”


Lets dig deeper. Elsewhere we read in Hebrews 11:4......
“By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain”.

Then in 1 John 3:11-12.......
"For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous."

So then, was Cains offering the wrong TYPE?
Fact is that there’s no verse that says, “God rejected Cain’s offering because it wasn’t meaty or bloody enough.” We like to think it is about the "Blood" however, Scripture never says that God had required them to sacrifice, nor (if He had) that He specified the type of sacrifice.

Was Cain’s offering rejected because it was not of superior quality?
Scripture indeed tells us that Abel brought the 1st born and of their fat. I am one who says that Cain brought the very best food/fruit he was able to grow. But once again, Scripture never makes the connection explicit, so this explanation remains speculative—albeit backed by more circumstantial evidence and reasonable assumptions based on Scripture.

So we are at The Heart of the Matter​

While we’ve seen some implied and circumstantial and assumed evidence for why God rejected Cain’s offering, the New Testament comes to the rescue in giving more explicit reasons for why Cain’s offering was rejected as we see in Hebrews 11:4......
"By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. "

1 John 3:11-12........
"For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous."

Even with all this circumstantial evidence, we don’t absolutely know that God required a blood sacrifice of Cain.
We can’t say for certain that the quality of Cain’s offering was inferior.
And we can’t prove Cain’s heart was in the wrong during the sacrifice itself.
Although the scriptural account does seem to point to each of these reasons, we can’t be emphatic about any of them which is way I say.......dont plant your feet in a box of cement on anything assumed!.

So, what’s the ultimate answer to God preferring Abel’s offering?

The Soventry of God's wisdom!
 
There is nothing in scripture that proves Judas was saved. Not all outward actions are produced out of faith. Just ask these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 who pointed to their outward actions expecting to receive eternal life yet Jesus never knew them and told them to depart from Him.

Just going through the motions of being a follower of Christ does not prove one is saved.

Judas cannot be a believing saint and an unbelieving, unclean devil at the same time. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) You can't have it both ways.
I'm not discussing Judas.
I'm reacting to your statement which is rather hypocritical.
And if you cannot see that --- well, that's why you state the things you do.

You say our ACTIONS are EVIDENCE of our faith.
If you're right....
then Judas had the right actions
thus
Judas was saved.
 
I'm not discussing Judas.
I'm reacting to your statement which is rather hypocritical.
And if you cannot see that --- well, that's why you state the things you do.

You say our ACTIONS are EVIDENCE of our faith.
If you're right....
then Judas had the right actions
thus
Judas was saved.
You call this the right actions? 😳

Judas was an unbeliever and is a devil.....John 6:64-71
Judas was spiritually unclean......John 13:11
Judas is lost and is the son of perdition.........John 17:12
Judas was not kept by Jesus........John 17:12; 18:9
Judas was a traitor.....Luke 6:16
Judas was a betrayer.....Multiple verses.
Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor........John 12:6
Judas was guilty of a greater sin.......John 19:11
Judas was influenced by Satan to betray Jesus.......John 13:2
Judas was entered by Satan.......Luke 22:3
Judas kills himself......Matthew 27:5
 
It was by or "out of" faith that Abel offered a sacrifice. Abel's faith was evidenced by obedience to God's requirement for sacrifice by which he obtained witness that he was righteous. (Hebrews 11:4)
Abraham's acts of obeying God made Abraham a righteous man.

A righteous man acts righteously.
1 John 3:7
7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;

Notice that John states it is the person who PRACTICES righteousness that is righteous.
What we practice makes us righteous.
What we do for the Kingdom of God.
Once again, Cain, who was of the evil one, demonstrated an evil heart by evil deeds
Please post where it states the above in Genesis 4.
I read that they both believed in God and made sacrifices to Him.
Please post where it's stated that Cain had an evil heart.
I may have missed it.

, which includes murdering his brother and while Abel demonstrated a righteous heart by his righteous deeds (1 John 3:12); and that Abel offered his sacrifice by or "out of" faith and Cain did not. Do you deny 1 John 3:12?
1 John 3:12
12 not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous.

Cain's DEEDS were evil....
Abel's DEEDS were righteous...

Cain became of the evil one when he obeyed the evil one.
Just as Adam rejected God when he obeyed satan and ate of the forbidden fruit.

Cain became cursed after he killed his brother:
Genesis 4:11
11 "Now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.




Cain's sacrifice was evidence of his lack of faith. Abel's offering was a demonstration of his faith in regard to sacrifice, which was not demonstrated by Cain's offering. Cain did not do well.
I don't real the above in the story of Cain and Abel.
Could you please post the verses?
 
You call this the right actions? 😳

Judas was an unbeliever and is a devil.....John 6:64-71
Judas was spiritually unclean......John 13:11
Judas is lost and is the son of perdition.........John 17:12
Judas was not kept by Jesus........John 17:12; 18:9
Judas was a traitor.....Luke 6:16
Judas was a betrayer.....Multiple verses.
Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor........John 12:6
Judas was guilty of a greater sin.......John 19:11
Judas was influenced by Satan to betray Jesus.......John 13:2
Judas was entered by Satan.......Luke 22:3
Judas kills himself......Matthew 27:5
When was Judas entered by satan?
 
I agree 100% with you in that "Incorrect theology is always exposed sooner or later".

Just as Matthew 7:21-24 described people in Jesus day, it does the vaery same thing today.

Yes.....Judas was a follower of Jesus for 3 and 1/2 years. However, he failed to see the complete truth of who Jesus is and acknowledge Him as the Savior, the Son of God, the Redeemer, the Messiah, God in the flesh! There is not one single Scripture to suggest that Judas was born again.

There is not one single Scripture that says Judas responded to the salvation available to Him.

He went through all the motions, he evidently said all the right words, had the right passwords on his computer and probably had the Lords picture on his phone, BUT there is NO record of a heart transformation so as to confirm that he was born again.

Speaking only for me, before I would place my feet in a concrete form based on something that is not there, I would think twice about my stance.

IMHO, we can clearly see that Judas's life warns us that mere knowledge of Jesus isn't enough for salvation.

To be saved, born again, It's essential to trust in Him as Savior and Lord, allowing His truth to transform our hearts and lives and make a life commitment to him. Knowing about Jesus without genuine faith leads to spiritual emptiness and, ultimately, destruction. which is exactly what James 2:24 is saying to us. Good works are the result of being born again!

Judas's story compels us to examine our own hearts and ensure that we don't just know about Jesus, but that we trust in Him completely for salvation and follow Him wholeheartedly.
The Reformed are very proud to post
John 15:16
16 "You did not choose Me but I chose you,


Jesus was speaking to His Apostles...called Disciples at the time but would be called Apostles after Jesus' death and resurrection to distinguish them from the followers of Jesus....

So did Jesus pick Judas?
The reformed state that everyone that Jesus (God) picks is saved....

So was not Judas saved because God picked him?
If Judas had died immediately after being picked,,,would he have been saved or lost?

Unfortunately for Judas, he came to distrust Jesus. He didn't understand what Jesus was doing.
When Jesus said WHAT YOU MUST DO, DO IT QUICKLY, he thought it was a command from Jesus.

His ultimate sin was not asking forgiveness.
It was turning to his humanity and not learn from the time he spent with Jesus.

Peter also did not understand till after the resurrection.
Judas did not give himself the time to see the resurrection.
 
I do not see where "mailman" distorted Scripture. I do see where he did a deeper study of "why" Cains offering was refused.

Over years, great men of God had worked to explain this act.

Was it the "type" of offering.....blood verses fruits/food?
Was it the quality....the food was not eatable or spoiled?
Was it the quantity....not enough food?
Was it because of the HEART of the person making the offering as God know all of our thoughts?

Genesis 1:2-7....
"Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the Lord. Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering, but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell. So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”


Lets dig deeper. Elsewhere we read in Hebrews 11:4......
“By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain”.

Then in 1 John 3:11-12.......
"For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous."

So then, was Cains offering the wrong TYPE?
Fact is that there’s no verse that says, “God rejected Cain’s offering because it wasn’t meaty or bloody enough.” We like to think it is about the "Blood" however, Scripture never says that God had required them to sacrifice, nor (if He had) that He specified the type of sacrifice.

Was Cain’s offering rejected because it was not of superior quality?
Scripture indeed tells us that Abel brought the 1st born and of their fat. I am one who says that Cain brought the very best food/fruit he was able to grow. But once again, Scripture never makes the connection explicit, so this explanation remains speculative—albeit backed by more circumstantial evidence and reasonable assumptions based on Scripture.

So we are at The Heart of the Matter​

While we’ve seen some implied and circumstantial and assumed evidence for why God rejected Cain’s offering, the New Testament comes to the rescue in giving more explicit reasons for why Cain’s offering was rejected as we see in Hebrews 11:4......
"By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. "

1 John 3:11-12........
"For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous."

Even with all this circumstantial evidence, we don’t absolutely know that God required a blood sacrifice of Cain.
We can’t say for certain that the quality of Cain’s offering was inferior.
And we can’t prove Cain’s heart was in the wrong during the sacrifice itself.
Although the scriptural account does seem to point to each of these reasons, we can’t be emphatic about any of them which is way I say.......dont plant your feet in a box of cement on anything assumed!.

So, what’s the ultimate answer to God preferring Abel’s offering?

The Soventry of God's wisdom!
As you've concluded NO ONE can know why Cain's sacrifice was rejected.

What we DO know for sure is that he was cursed AFTER he killed Abel.
He was told that sin was crouching at the door and he must master it. Sounds like free will.
He was told the that he should "do well".

As to Hebrews 11:4
The writer, whoever he was, was not in the mind of the writer of Genesis and cannot know, as you've stated, what is not written. BY FAITH is not written anywhere in Genesis 4.

I hope you also believe Hebrews 6:4-6 if you totally trust the writer.

We are not to add to scripture.
Revelation 22:18
18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;
 
John 13:27. I see that you are doubling down but that changes nothing about Judas' lost condition all along.
If Judas was lost ALL ALONG...
then Jesus' action in sending him out with the other Apostles does raise some questions.
Why would Jesus have treated him like the other Apostles AT THAT TIME....why would Jesus entrust
Judas missionary work when He knew that Judas was not even a saved believer?

Matthew 10:1-8
1 Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans;
6 but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
8 "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give.
 
If Judas was lost ALL ALONG...
then Jesus' action in sending him out with the other Apostles does raise some questions.
Why would Jesus have treated him like the other Apostles AT THAT TIME....why would Jesus entrust
Judas missionary work when He knew that Judas was not even a saved believer?

Matthew 10:1-8
1 Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans;
6 but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
8 "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give.
I covered much of this already. Be sure to go back and read through my posts starting with post #1,065 on page 54.
 
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