Is baptism required for salvation?

[donadams]

That’s not what the scriptures say.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. John 3:5


Born of water. Not born again of water.


Born of water refers to natural birth…
Born of the flesh.

As Jesus so plainly described in the next verse.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

Jesus is teaching Nicodemus about birth; Natural birth and spiritual birth.

This context is about birth not water baptism.

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? John 3:12

The earthly thing that Jesus used to help Nicodemus understand water natural birth.

this verse Jn 3:5 refers to being born again!

 

[JLB]

this verse Jn 3:5 refers to being born again!

John 3:5 refers to being born, and then being born again.

A person must first be born in order to be born again.

Jesus used natural birth (earthly things) to teach Nicodemus about spiritual birth (heavenly things).


There is no natural water involved in being born again, The Spirit gives birth to spirit.

We are born again when we believe.

 

[donadams]

the Holy Spirit is another sacrament.

ez 36:25-27 It is God who baptizes us into the church!

God sealed Noah in the ark and God seals us in the church, the ark of eternal salvation by baptism!

and the ark of Noah is a type of the eternal ark of the church and baptism in scripture! 1 pet 3:20-21

The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!


Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!
No union with God and His saints thru Christ the mediator!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone! Jn 3:5

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13 and cannot be repeated

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!


Christ instituted the holy church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation. (repent and believe the gospel) with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!
Matt 28:19

whst do you want mailmandan a "faith alone" anarchy producing chaos?

no thanks

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


"for good works" Believers' lifestyles after they meet Christ are an evidence of their salvation (cf. James and 1 John). They are saved by grace through faith unto works!

They are saved to serve! Faith without works is dead, as are works without faith (cf. Mat_7:21-23 and Jas_2:14-26). Salvation is a gate and a way/road. The goal of the Father's choice is that believers be "holy and blameless" (cf. Eph_1:4).

Paul was often attacked for his radically free gospel because it seemed to encourage godless living. A gospel so seemingly unconnected to moral performance must lead to abuse. Paul's gospel was free in the grace of God, but it also demanded an appropriate response, not only in initial repentance, but in ongoing repentance. Godly living is the result, not lawlessness.

Good works are not the mechanism of salvation, but the result. This paradox of a completely free salvation and a cost-everything response is difficult to communicate, but the two must be held in a tension-filled balance.

American individualism has distorted the gospel. Humans are not saved because God loves them so much individually, but because God loves fallen mankind, mankind made in His image. He saves and changes individuals to reach more individuals. The ultimate focus of love is primarily corporate (cf. Joh_3:16), but it is received individually (cf. Joh_1:12; Rom_10:9-13; 1Co_15:1).

"which God prepared beforehand" This strong term (pro + hetoimos, " to prepare before") relates to the theological concept of predestination (cf. Eph_1:4-5; Eph_1:11) and is used only here and in Rom_9:23. God chose a people to reflect His character. Through Christ, the Father has restored His image in fallen mankind (cf. Gen_1:26-27).
Utley.

You agree?

I’ve heard some say we should just “faith it” and forget about good works..but that sounds like passivism to me, the way I see it.

Just want to make sure we are on the same page here brother.

J.

brother

I am talking about merited salvation. works done to get saved keep saved or keep from losing salvation.

Not works of gratitude and honor based on the fact God loved us.

I am not sure why you are trying to show me works. when i am all for them, in the right context.

Saying I must be baptized in water to be saved. is in the wrong context. it is is trying to merit salvation. and will be rejected as fifthly rags

 

[Eternally-grateful]

this verse Jn 3:5 refers to being born again!

yes, and John 3: 10 - 18 shows how that is done and when

 

[JLB]

Saying I must be baptized in water to be saved. is in the wrong context. it is is trying to merit salvation. and will be rejected as fifthly rags

How about getting baptized in water because that is what Christ teaches us to do?

Because we love Him and desire to obey Him.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

How about getting baptized in water because that is what Christ teaches us to do?

I did this, a year after I was born again and sealed by the spirit

Because we love Him and desire to obey Him.

if we are doing it to get saved. we are not doing it because we love him, we are trying to get him to give us something

 

[onlysaved]

I take it to mean what it says

the wheat (Gods children) will be put in the barn through baptism of the spirit

The chaff (non believer) will be burned with an unquenchable fire (hellfire)

we all will be baptized. You better chose the right baptism You do not want the second one, it is eternal.. there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth

You are right, I was thinking of something something else. I was thinking of God testing the quality of each man's work.. maybe i responded to the wrong post or something.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

You are right, I was thinking of something something else. I was thinking of God testing the quality of each man's work.. maybe i responded to the wrong post or something.

yes, we will be rewarded, Gold silver precious stone, wood hay straw.. Maybe this is what you meant

 

[Free]

Scripture is explicit:

1 Peter 3:20-21 ---> "...to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ..."

In Christianity, matter...matters.

First, water in salvation history brings both death and life. It represents the destruction of the old (former ways) and recreates something new. The waters of the deluge washed the sinners away, and through it something new was created. Thus Noah and his family were saved from sin through the waters of the deluge.

Second, St. Peter draws the parallel between the saving waters of the deluge for Noah and that of the saving waters of baptism for you and I. However, he goes through the trouble of the exclusion, "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God" to demonstrate the effects of the waters of baptism act not on the exterior (washing the flesh), but rather interiorly, on the conscience and soul of man.

Baptism is the anti-type of the waters of the deluge. The waters of baptism now cleanse not our flesh, but our sin. (cf. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Titus 3:5) Hence its effect is not on our flesh (i.e. removal of dirt), but rather on our interior. Through our baptism, we are made anew. (cf. John 3:5, Romans 6:4)

1Pe 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (ESV)

We must first note that Peter is talking about salvation, not cleansing one's body; that is the context. In saying "not as a removal of dirt from the body," there are at least two options of what Peter could mean. First, he could mean it in a literal, physical sense, but he is talking about salvation and dirt on one's body is irrelevant one's salvation. Or, he could mean it in a metaphorical sense for sin, and in doing so, is stating that baptism itself does not save--it doesn't actually do anything.

To further clarify, he states that it is "the resurrection of Jesus Christ" which is the basis of salvation and that which baptism symbolizes (Rom. 6:2-6). Baptism is, therefore, a sign of an inward faith, as indicated by it being "an appeal to God for a good conscience." It is a symbol of that spiritual cleansing which is accomplished through faith in Christ and his work.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

1Pe 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (ESV)

We must first note that Peter is talking about salvation, not cleansing one's body; that is the context. In saying "not as a removal of dirt from the body," there are at least two options of what Peter could mean. First, he could mean it in a literal, physical sense, but he is talking about salvation and dirt on one's body is irrelevant one's salvation. Or, he could mean it in a metaphorical sense for sin, and in doing so, is stating that baptism itself does not save--it doesn't actually do anything.

To further clarify, he states that it is "the resurrection of Jesus Christ" which is the basis of salvation and that which baptism symbolizes (Rom. 6:2-6). Baptism is, therefore, a sign of an inward faith, as indicated by it being "an appeal to God for a good conscience." It is a symbol of that spiritual cleansing which is accomplished through faith in Christ and his work.

no, he is not saying this.. He is sayign baptism, like the waters of the flood. symbolises that which saves us..

It does not remove sin from the soul.. but is a good conscious to Christ.

peter is not promoting regeneration by water..

 

[Johann!@#]

brother

I am talking about merited salvation. works done to get saved keep saved or keep from losing salvation.

Not works of gratitude and honor based on the fact God loved us.

I am not sure why you are trying to show me works. when i am all for them, in the right context.

Saying I must be baptized in water to be saved. is in the wrong context. it is is trying to merit salvation. and will be rejected as fifthly rags

No problem, problem solved brother.

Johann.

 

[donadams]

walk away from romansism.

there was no water baptism regeneration in the NT church.. if came much later

run away from protestantism!

the truth shall make you free!
Jn 8;32

false doctrine shall keep you enslaved on the reformation plantation!

no baptismal regeneration?

scripture:

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

church fathers Christ's witnesses acts 1:8

St. Ambrose
St. AUGUSTINE
JUSTIN MARTYR
TERTULLIAN
ORIGEN
Leo 1
CYRIL OF JERUSALEM
FULGENTIUS OF RUSPE
Irenaeus
Hippolytus
Cyprian

all say baptism required for salvation!

trent:
CANON I.-If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law were not all instituted by Jesus Christ, our Lord; or, that they are more, or less, than seven, to wit, Baptism, Confirmation, the Eucharist, Penance, Extreme Unction, Order, and Matrimony; or even that any one of these seven is not truly and properly a sacrament; let him be anathema.

CANON VIII.-If any one saith, that by the said sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred through the act performed, but that faith alone in the divine promise suffices for the obtaining of grace; let him be anathema.

“Without the Sacrament of Baptism, no one is ever justified, If anyone says that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema."

thks

 

[Free]

Jesus' final instructions to the Apostles:

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." (Matthe 28:19)

If you are baptizing people apart from this form, your baptisms are not valid.

Notice that Jesus first said to "make disciples," then to baptize them. That is, it is believers, those who have put their faith in Christ and want to be his disciple that are to be baptized. That means, the CC is baptizing unbelievers, by definition, and the infant baptisms are not valid.

Baptism is always performed on believers in the Bible. Some reinterpret Scripture to say that baptism of infants is implied, but that is stretching things.

 

[Free]

no, he is not saying this.. He is sayign baptism, like the waters of the flood. symbolises that which saves us..

It does not remove sin from the soul.. but is a good conscious to Christ.

peter is not promoting regeneration by water..

So, you're agreeing with me then?

 

[Eternally-grateful]

run away from protestantism!

the truth shall make you free!
Jn 8;32

false doctrine shall keep you enslaved on the reformation plantation!

no baptismal regeneration?

scripture:

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

church fathers Christ's witnesses acts 1:8

St. Ambrose
St. AUGUSTINE
JUSTIN MARTYR
TERTULLIAN
ORIGEN
Leo 1
CYRIL OF JERUSALEM
FULGENTIUS OF RUSPE
Irenaeus
Hippolytus
Cyprian

all say baptism required for salvation!

trent:
CANON I.-If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law were not all instituted by Jesus Christ, our Lord; or, that they are more, or less, than seven, to wit, Baptism, Confirmation, the Eucharist, Penance, Extreme Unction, Order, and Matrimony; or even that any one of these seven is not truly and properly a sacrament; let him be anathema.

CANON VIII.-If any one saith, that by the said sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred through the act performed, but that faith alone in the divine promise suffices for the obtaining of grace; let him be anathema.

“Without the Sacrament of Baptism, no one is ever justified, If anyone says that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema."

thks

lol.

romansism is really no different than judiasm.

they both deny the grace of God

they both claim they are Gods chosen

they both claim we are made right with God by our works.

ps. I do not protest any church, you must consider a church real before you can protest it

my suggestion to you is stop following men and follow God

 

[Eternally-grateful]

So, you're agreeing with me then?

that water baptism symbolises spirit baptism which saves? yes

 

[donadams]

walk away from romansism.

there was no water baptism regeneration in the NT church.. if came much later

acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

(((water)))

acts 8:
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

how did he know about baptism? if the apostles only taught "faith alone" and no bain the early church???

 

[Free]

run away from protestantism!

the truth shall make you free!
Jn 8;32

false doctrine shall keep you enslaved on the reformation plantation!

While there is a lot of good, common doctrine with the CC in Protestantism, there is simply way too much false doctrine added onto Scripture in the CC. But, let's keep this on topic.

 

[donadams]

yes lets look at titus

5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, (like water baptism) but according to His mercy He saved us, (a completed act) through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

The washing, the renewal (new birth) is all of the Holy Spirit. Not your pastor or whoever immersed you in water

(((water)))

acts 8:38-39

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washedwith pure water.