Considering the early Church compiled the New Testament, what authority did they have to do so—and do you recognise that same authority today?

[LanaPodesta]

I guess I misunderstood as I thought you went to the Catholic Church.

The Orthodox Catholic Church

 

[for_his_glory]

The Bible is not for ME to interpret. That would be prideful. Why would I be a better interpreter of scripture than the spiritual successors of the Apostles whom Christ established His Church upon?

"Seems". You don't sound certain

Jesus is talking about wheat. Or does it have another meaning? If so, does your meaning 'coincidentally' match the interpretation that the Church has had for millennia?

My personal interpretation is that I already answered your questions

Wheat and tares are the same as separating the sheep from the goats. It's all about those who are Christ own and those who are not.

 

[for_his_glory]

The Orthodox Catholic Church

It's still a Catholic church with Catholic doctrines. Since you follow what your church teaches without Spiritually discerning what you are being taught then how do you know you are receiving truth.

You still have not answered my question in how do you understand the Spiritual rebirth of John 3:5-7.

 

[LanaPodesta]

It's still a Catholic church with Catholic doctrines. Since you follow what your church teaches without Spiritually discerning what you are being taught then how do you know you are receiving truth.

You still have not answered my question in how do you understand the Spiritual rebirth of John 3:5-7.

No, it's THE Catholic Church.

I know I'm 'receiving truth' because it's the Church that Christ founded.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Wheat and tares are the same as separating the sheep from the goats. It's all about those who are Christ own and those who are not.

Who says

 

[for_his_glory]

being born again means to be reborn through Holy Baptism and the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is not just a personal feeling or emotional moment—it is a sacramental reality, something God does in us.


Jesus said in John 3:5:




The Church understands this as referring to Baptism and Chrismation (anointing with holy oil). Through these sacraments:

1. Our old, sinful self dies with Christ in baptismal waters.
2. We rise with Him into new life—just like Christ rose from the dead.
3. We receive the Holy Spirit through Chrismation (confirmation), which empowers us to live as part of the Body of Christ.

This is how we are spiritually born again: not just as individuals who now "believe," but as new creations joined to Christ and His Church.

Who says

This is the Baptism of Christ for receiving the Holy Spirit that is different from John's baptism.


Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire, (fire means empowerment)

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Seven works of the Holy Spirit in sanctification
1. Transforms us - Romans 12:1-2; 2Corinthians 3:18
2. Convicts us of sin - John 16:8-11
3. Guides us into all truths - John 14:26
4. Empowers us to proclaim Christ - Acts 1-8; Ephesians 1:13
5. Gives us Spiritual gifts - 1Corinthians 12
6. Empowers us to worship - Ephesians 3:14-19
7. Leads us - Galatians 5:25

We put on Jesus by the renewal of our mind, body and soul through Jesus life, death and resurrection by which we can reconcile ourselves back to Gods grace and mercy through His Salvation of Spiritual renewal and Spiritual rebirth of spirit. We now have the mind of Christ as joint heirs with Jesus as we walk in the path of Jesus and not our own path anymore. John 3:3-21

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.

Acts 2:38,39 When we repent of our sins and ask Jesus into our hearts we are also receiving the promise of God that his Holy Spirit will come and dwell in our hearts and teach us of all things we need to learn, John 14:26. The baptism that Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38 was a Spiritual rebirth through the word of God. Some people think it is being dunked or sprinkled with water the way John the Baptist did and there is nothing wrong with that for it is an outward appearance to man that you have repented and received Jesus and the Holy Spirit into your life, Matthew 3:11, but Jesus himself never baptized with water, John 4:2, for the baptism of Jesus was for receiving the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) that helps us to learn all truths and to know the will of the Father, 1 Thessalonians 4:1-12.

After repentance and the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5-7, we are then baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire through that of Christ baptism according to Acts 2:38, 39, Matthew 3:11.

 

[for_his_glory]

Who says

Jesus says so if you would read what He has already said. Wheat and tares, sheep and goats are just imagery of the literal saints and sinners as the parables in Matthew 13:24-30 and Matthew 25:31-46 depicts a final judgement of those who served God and those who have not.

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Other words you are following man's doctrine and not the true doctrines of Christ as you have shown by neglecting that which has already been written by the inspired Prophets (OT) and Apostles (NT) that God gave to write for all of us to learn from.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Jesus says so if you would read what He has already said. Wheat and tares, sheep and goats are just imagery of the literal saints and sinners as the parables in Matthew 13:24-30 and Matthew 25:31-46 depicts a final judgement of those who served God and those who have not.

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Other words you are following man's doctrine and not the true doctrines of Christ as you have shown by neglecting that which has already been written by the inspired Prophets (OT) and Apostles (NT) that God gave to write for all of us to learn from.

Jesus founded the Church.

 

[Free]

The Bible is not for ME to interpret. That would be prideful.

Then you don't know what pride is, nor what the Bible teaches, namely, that it is for our benefit to read and study the Scriptures daily so that we come to better understand what it says. You're following the same cult mentality of JWs and Mormons, falsely believing that it somehow shows humility. But willful ignorance and not loving God with all your mind is not humility.

2Ti 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. (ESV)

How can you "rightly [handle] the word of truth" if you refuse to interpret it yourself?

Why would I be a better interpreter of scripture than the spiritual successors of the Apostles whom Christ established His Church upon?

The irony is, you haven't even given a single interpretation from these "spiritual successors of the Apostles." For the Church only to be the sole interpreter of Scripture is exactly what cults do--to keep control of their followers.

"Seems". You don't sound certain

I'm 100% certain. If the Bereans were making sure that what Paul was teaching was in line with Scripture, then we should be doing the same. Otherwise you will never know if what the Church is teaching you is true or false.

Jesus is talking about wheat. Or does it have another meaning? If so, does your meaning 'coincidentally' match the interpretation that the Church has had for millennia?

Again, it's clearly a parable. Both Matthew and Jesus let us know this right at the start--"Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field" (Matt. 13:24, ESV). Parables are narratives that teach truths through analogies or other literary devices. In this case, Jesus begins with a simile, so we know that "wheat" isn't really wheat. This is based simply on understanding English, or whatever other language one reads the Bible in, and the context of the passage.

Remember, I first posted the passage in question (Matt. 13:24-30), as evidence that not all the visible Church belongs to the invisible Church. This is shown by Jesus's use of wheat and weeds (or tares, depending on translation). That was to refute your claim that "All who belong to the LATTER (the visible Church) belong to the FORMER (the invisible Church). This can be said with certainty."

You responded simply with: "None of that scripture you shared mentions any kind of 'church'." And now what do I see? Your response at the end, in which you share the Church's teaching which states: "the Church on earth is a mixed reality—both the wheat and the tares are present." That is exactly what I was saying.

Your own church's teaching supports what I said and refutes your claim.

My personal interpretation is that I already answered your questions

First, that has nothing to do with what you quoted.

You asked: "Which questions."

I replied: "Go back and figure it out."

Second, since you don't even know which questions, how can you say that you "already answered [my] questions"?

The harvest is at the end of the age, not now. It is a future event tied to Christ’s return and the final judgment. Until then, the Church on earth is a mixed reality—both the wheat and the tares are present. The Kingdom of Heaven is mystically present in the Church through the sacraments and the presence of the Holy Spirit (we experience this when physically present at Liturgy, so come along to experience it too!), but its full manifestation awaits the end of time.

Thus, the Orthodox Church resists attempts to identify the Kingdom of Heaven fully and exclusively with any visible institution, recognizing the Church as a divine-human reality that participates in the Kingdom now, while also awaiting its fulfillment.

Not my opinion. This is what the Church teaches.

How do you know you understand what the Church teaches, if you don't understand what the Bible teaches? What makes you think your interpretation of what they said is correct? How can you know you interpreted the Church's teachings correctly but cannot know how to interpret the Bible itself correctly?

 

[LanaPodesta]

Then you don't know what pride is, nor what the Bible teaches, namely, that it is for our benefit to read and study the Scriptures daily so that we come to better understand what it says

I absolutely agree that reading the Scriptures can be a great blessing. But in Orthodoxy, we don't believe personal interpretation, apart from the Church, is sufficient or even safe. The Scriptures are not a private text—they belong to the Church that compiled, preserved, and interprets them within the life of the Holy Spirit. We read them with the Church, not over or apart from it.

Otherwise, how could the illiterate, the mentally handicapped, the very young—or even the early Christians who had no printed Bibles—come to know Christ? The Kingdom of Heaven is not reserved for the intellectually capable, but for the pure in heart, the humble, and the obedient. Christ never said, 'Blessed are the well-read,' but 'Blessed are the poor in spirit.'

So yes, we read and honor the Scriptures. But we don’t claim private authority to interpret them. That belongs to the Body of Christ, the Church, led by the Holy Spirit.

 

[LanaPodesta]

You responded simply with: "None of that scripture you shared mentions any kind of 'church'." And now what do I see? Your response at the end, in which you share the Church's teaching which states: "the Church on earth is a mixed reality—both the wheat and the tares are present." That is exactly what I was saying.

You’re saying I’m wrong in how I interpret the passage, and then you go on to affirm the Church’s interpretation—that the wheat and tares represent true and false believers within the Church. Fine, but that means you agree with the Church’s teaching. So what exactly are you objecting to?

If I’m wrong, and you’re right, then not all interpretations are valid—which proves why private interpretation is risky. But if your interpretation just happens to line up with the Church’s, then you’ve basically confirmed the need for the Church as an interpretive authority. You can’t claim I'm wrong and claim all interpretations are valid. That's a contradiction.

 

[LanaPodesta]

How do you know you understand what the Church teaches, if you don't understand what the Bible teaches? What makes you think your interpretation of what they said is correct? How can you know you interpreted the Church's teachings correctly but cannot know how to interpret the Bible itself correctly?

You're confusing two very different things. The Church's teachings aren't just someone's interpretation of Scripture—they are the authoritative interpretation, passed down through apostolic Tradition, protected and guided by the Holy Spirit.

When I receive the Church’s teaching, I’m not relying on my personal interpretive powers—I’m submitting to what the Church has universally taught for centuries. That's completely different from me reading a verse and deciding on my own what it means.

And even if I misunderstand something the Church teaches, there’s a living body—bishops, priests, catechisms, councils, saints—that corrects and guides me. Scripture, on its own, doesn’t do that. A book can’t answer back. The Church can. That’s the difference.

 

[for_his_glory]

You’re saying I’m wrong in how I interpret the passage, and then you go on to affirm the Church’s interpretation—that the wheat and tares represent true and false believers within the Church. Fine, but that means you agree with the Church’s teaching. So what exactly are you objecting to?

If I’m wrong, and you’re right, then not all interpretations are valid—which proves why private interpretation is risky. But if your interpretation just happens to line up with the Church’s, then you’ve basically confirmed the need for the Church as an interpretive authority. You can’t claim I'm wrong and claim all interpretations are valid. That's a contradiction.

There are over 5000 different religions in the world as many are cults that love to deceive the mind of those without Spiritual understanding. Each one with various different doctrines and many with a carnal logical interpretation of scripture. If you are not reading and studying scripture for yourself, as scripture is of no private interpretation, 2Peter 1:20-21, then how do you know you are not being deceived by destructive heresies that causes people to fall away from the true doctrine of Christ Jesus.

I'm sorry that you do not understand the analogies that are given in the word of God, especially the parables Jesus taught, but would rather have the Priest/Pastor teach you as it is evident by what you have been saying in this thread that you do not allow the Holy Spirit teach you by those who have been called and anointed by the Holy Spirit to teach us. Salvation comes by Christ alone and not by the church.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[LanaPodesta]

There are over 5000 different religions in the world as many are cults that love to deceive the mind of those without Spiritual understanding. Each one with various different doctrines and many with a carnal logical interpretation of scripture. If you are not reading and studying scripture for yourself, as scripture is of no private interpretation, 2Peter 1:20-21, then how do you know you are not being deceived by destructive heresies that causes people to fall away from the true doctrine of Christ Jesus.

I'm sorry that you do not understand the analogies that are given in the word of God, especially the parables Jesus taught, but would rather have the Priest/Pastor teach you as it is evident by what you have been saying in this thread that you do not allow the Holy Spirit teach you by those who have been called and anointed by the Holy Spirit to teach us. Salvation comes by Christ alone and not by the church.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

so it's just a coincidence you came to the SAME conclusion as the Church is it?

Am I to understand you never listen to ANYONE ELSE'S interpretation of scripture? That you came to EVERY conclusion you've made ALL BY YOURSELF?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Then the question is how you know YOUR interpretation is correct?

27And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. 1 John 2:27

I don't need anyone to decide for me whether what I'm hearing is truth or not. The Holy Spirit does that in me. And as long as I seek to have and maintain a pure and undefiled heart, I will not be deciding things are true that are not really true.

 

[LanaPodesta]

27And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. 1 John 2:27

I don't need anyone to decide for me whether what I'm hearing is truth or not. The Holy Spirit does that in me. And as long as I seek to have and maintain a pure and undefiled heart, I will not be deciding things are true that are not really true.

so how come people don't agree?

 

[for_his_glory]

so it's just a coincidence you came to the SAME conclusion as the Church is it?

Am I to understand you never listen to ANYONE ELSE'S interpretation of scripture? That you came to EVERY conclusion you've made ALL BY YOURSELF?

I listen to anyone's interpretation, but, I also take what is being taught by others and search the scriptures to make sure of what one is teaching is truth or lies. My conclusions come by what the Holy Spirit teaches me, not man, as I diligently study the scriptures to know truth from error. Do I always get it right, no, but when I do error the Holy Spirit always gives me correction, mostly by using others that have more Spiritual knowledge than I have. We all need to be opened for correction.

I do not take face value of everything anymore that is taught in all the various churches (denominations/non-denominations) with so many different doctrines. I have sat in many different churches over the last 50 years as man's interpretations become a traditional bandwagon majority rule teaching that comes by man's interpretations and not the true doctrines of what Christ taught us. The Bible is not socially acceptable in some churches and this is why we need to pray first and ask the Holy Spirit to teach us all truths so we are not blindly being deceive by all the false teachings that have gone out into the world.

2Timothy 2:14-16 and 1John 2:27, we are to study to show ourselves approved to God, not man. Studying the word of God, first praying and asking the Holy Spirit to teach us, we will receive all truths and no longer deceived by those who have not the indwelling and anointing of the Holy Spirit.

Please do not think that Free and I are coming against you, but only trying to help you to see the importance of studying and understanding scripture for yourself through the Holy Spirit instead of allowing a particular church dictate to you their interpretations of scripture. Some religions have written their own Bible according to what they believe and not what God has already had written by the Prophets and Apostles.

I pray that your Spiritual eyes and ears will be opened to all truths so you can Spiritually discern truth from error.

 

[LanaPodesta]

My conclusions come by what the Holy Spirit teaches me, not man, as I diligently study the scriptures to know truth from error

You are a man...so by your own logic I should ignore anything you have to say on the matter

 

[for_his_glory]

You are a man...so by your own logic I should ignore anything you have to say on the matter

No, I am a woman who follows the teachings of Christ comparing the teachings of the various churches with that which has already been written so I will know truth from error.

 

[LanaPodesta]

No, I am a woman who follows the teachings of Christ comparing the teachings of the various churches with that which has already been written so I will know truth from error.

You are a 'man' (human) in the sense that you used that word.

My conclusions come by what the Holy Spirit teaches me, not man, as I diligently study the scriptures to know truth from error.

But YOU are 'man', so why should I trust what you say?

Or does the Holy Spirit teach only you? Are YOU the absolute authority on scripture?